"Well, I'm Catholic and I'm pro-choice..."

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That’s what a friend said to me today. What she argued was that, if a woman is raped, then she should be able to abort. Also that, if a woman wants to, she should be able to.

As I gave them the strongest arguments and most shocking statistics, they wouldn’t budge.(There were two pro-choice Catholics and one pro-choice person who I don’t know the religion of.) Among their arguments and statements and mine were:

But it’s the womans choice!
It’s also the serial killer’s choice to go out and kill as many people as he wants.

What if the woman is raped?
It still doesn’t mean the baby doesn’t has life. What if a man simply beat up a woman and then left an infant with her? Should she kill it because she doesn’t want it?(The second and third bit I didn’t have to time to talk about to them, but I did get to the first sentence.)

But it’s not a life!
The baby has control over all of its bodily functions and directs the growing and development to come. The only thing the mother provides is shelter, blood, and oxygen.

I’m Catholic, but it’s not like its a rule you have to be against abortion.
Yes, but you still have to follow Church teaching. The Church teaches that life begins at conception, not after implantation of the baby in the uterus, not after the first trimester, the second, or the third, AND not after birth…LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION! You are not following the Church’s teaching if you do not recognize this. GOD IS NOT PRO-CHOICE.

Do you realize how many abortions occur worldwide annually? Guess.
100,000?
No.
500,000?
No.
750,000?
No.
1 million?
No.
10 million, 25 million?
No…46 million abortions take place worldwide in one year. 46 million…

Do you think condoms are okay?
No. I’m Catholic. (This obviously doesn’t mean to some what it should.)

If all those abortions never took place, there’d be poverty, suffering, and overpopulation.
Overpopulation is a myth. The number of people in a country does NOT affect the per capita wealth… Do you not think those babies suffered? Torturing those who cannot speak out for themselves is one of the worst crimes ever committed.

But a baby can’t think!
Yes it can!
But it can’t remember being in the womb!
Neither can a baby remember being one year old, does that mean that young infants can be murdered?

Why do you know so much about abortion?
I’m Catholic.(Once again…I just this doesn’t mean what it should to some people. Is it not the Catholic duty to defend life?)

Man, I know guys like you…this one guy at the Catholic conference we went to talked to us for 3 HOURS about how bad abortion is.

It makes me truly sad that many don’t know what it means to be Catholic. These people think that the Catholic guy that stood his ground for 3 hours and defended the lives of millions isn’t a good person or isn’t correct. How far can people fall?

EDIT:
By the way this all came from their curiosity of my shirt from DeathRoe.com. It says “Death Roe Survivor…My execution authorized 22 Janurary 1973.” First of all, they didn’t know what Roe vs Wade was…then when I explained one of them said “you’re against abortion?!” in a shocked voice. Again I say…How far can people fall?
 
Thank you for standing up for the faith. It is so painful to see Catholics so under-catechized. You did well in refuting their ridiculous reasons for supporting abortion. Keep up the good work. 👍
 
It sounds like you did a pretty good job of upholding the Church’s teaching and trying to explain it.

It’s interesting how pro-choice people (the name itself reflects it) focus so much on the act of choosing and either don’t know much about or don’t want to acknowledge what is being chosen.

“It’s the woman’s choice!”

Finish the sentence. “It’s the woman’s choice” … to do what?
 
The pro-choice position is that by calling it a choice, you divorce it from all morality.

That’s like calling murder, rape, bank robbery and so on a “choice” makes them morally acceptable.
 
Yeah another thing they brought up was a boyfriend beating his girlfriend as an abortion. She assented…No idea where they wanted that to go.

Anyway I also illustrated some aborton prodecures like partial birth abortion and dilation and extraction…one guy just said “oh, that’s gross” to partial birth abortion. It really is disgusting what they do, but he’s saying it as he would refer to something like snot.
I also said no matter what the mom has to give birth…it’s her choice if she wants to give birth to a dead baby or an alive baby.
 
TheApologist said:
Yeah another thing they brought up was a boyfriend beating his girlfriend as an abortion. She assented…No idea where they wanted that to go.

Anyway I also illustrated some aborton prodecures like partial birth abortion and dilation and extraction…one guy just said “oh, that’s gross” to partial birth abortion. It really is disgusting what they do, but he’s saying it as he would refer to something like snot.
I also said no matter what the mom has to give birth…it’s her choice if she wants to give birth to a dead baby or an alive baby.
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Is that what you meant to say?
 
Maybe you could point out that, quite apart from all moral considerations, a woman who is pregnant without wanting to be is about as “free” in her “choice” like someone who has a guy with a baseball bat behind her, threatening her to beat her up if she chooses the green T-shirt instead of the red one… (Of course the death of a baby is not like choosing to buy a T-shirt. It’s only an illustration about the “freedom of choice” in such a case.)

In fact, women who become pregnant without having planned it are under extreme pressure: from their own plans, their boyfriends, their families, their social situation… They would often like to have the baby, but simply feel they *can’t *. (That’s “free choice” for you!) So, if you balance this pressure by giving them emotional, social and financial support, you’re actually making “free choice” possible! (Again, apart from all moral considerations.)

But then, what do most of the unenlightened b****es do in that situation? They actually develop motherly feelings and “choose” to have the baby! Terrorized and oppressed by the “Christianists”, surely… 😃
 
vern_humphrey said:
Is that what you meant to say?
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Yeah, it wasn’t. I meant something along the lines of…“what aborting moms currently choose is to give birth to a dead baby she brought about the death of…”
They choose to end their baby’s lives regardless of the baby’s right to live and their baby’s right to choose to live.
…I didn’t mean it like it came out…Sorry about that.

EDIT:
lumendelumine said:
But then, what do most of the unenlightened b****es do in that situation? They actually develop motherly feelings and “choose” to have the baby! Terrorized and oppressed by the “Christianists”, surely… 😃
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I hope you’re joking…
 
TheApologist said:
I hope you’re joking…
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But of course! I’m not one of them “pro-choice Catholics” but a good, orthodox pro-life one! :signofcross:

I was merely stating the viewpoint of the oh so “pro-choice” ideologists who somehow always seem more happy when a woman “chooses” to kill her child than when she “chooses” to have it… That’s when they show their true colors! 😉
 
TheApologist said:
Yeah another thing they brought up was a boyfriend beating his girlfriend as an abortion. She assented…No idea where they wanted that to go.

Anyway I also illustrated some aborton prodecures like partial birth abortion and dilation and extraction…one guy just said “oh, that’s gross” to partial birth abortion. It really is disgusting what they do, but he’s saying it as he would refer to something like snot.
I also said no matter what the mom has to give birth…it’s her choice if she wants to give birth to a dead baby or an alive baby.
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This already happened. He was charged with Murder and she was charged with nothing. don’t you love are judical system.
 
Tell her all women have a “choice”. To NOT participate in the deed that causes them to be pregnant.
Or as my DH used to say, “They have a choice to keep their legs together”.
Of course then they’ll bring up the rape angle, which is easily refuted with one sentence of statistics. (1% of 1% of raped women become pregnant - for get where I learned that though)
Their arguements are so repetitive. 😛
 
I think it’s always important to begin by explaining to these ‘good Catholics’ who support abortion that you can’t be both pro-choice and a ‘good Catholic’ at the same time; like oil and water the two will not mix. In order for one to be in good standing with the Church one must accept all the teachings and doctrines of the Church. Since the Catholic Church condemns abortion in all forms and for all reasons; if they support abortion they are outside of Church teaching and therefore cannot be ‘good Catholics’. No one said it is easy to be a Catholic and I’m tired mollycoddling people who hold these views. If they are dissidents, this discussion will flush them out. If they are simply unaware, you can bring them closer to understanding their faith.

They cannot win this argument because they are either one or the other. I’m happy to discuss the murder of children, assisted suicide, euthanasia of the mentally ill and elderly after they explain which they are so I understand the moral underpinnings of their arguments.

Iowa Mike

PS…I think you did a great job of representing your position.
 
There is no logical defense for the pre-meditated murder of the most innocent amongst us. So you should not be surprised to find illogical arguments stretched as far as they will go – and a bit farther.
 
Iowa_Mike said:
I think it’s always important to begin by explaining to these ‘good Catholics’ who support abortion that you can’t be both pro-choice and a ‘good Catholic’ at the same time; like oil and water the two will not mix. In order for one to be in good standing with the Church one must accept all the teachings and doctrines of the Church. Since the Catholic Church condemns abortion in all forms and for all reasons; if they support abortion they are outside of Church teaching and therefore cannot be ‘good Catholics’. No one said it is easy to be a Catholic and I’m tired mollycoddling people who hold these views. If they are dissidents, this discussion will flush them out. If they are simply unaware, you can bring them closer to understanding their faith.
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Yeah, that’s what I was getting across to them. “God is not pro-choice.” “I’m Catholic…i.e. pro-life.” I can’t remember if I said, “You can’t be Catholic and pro-choice” or not.
 
Oh my…

I just had an argument with my friend online. She’s for abortion in case of rape…
Here’s a transcript of what happened…
Her: nm i mean i think taht if a girl is like raped she has the right 2 decide
Me: it is still a life within her
Me: what would you say if a man simply beat up a girl and left a small child with her?
Me: does she have the right to decide to kill the child?
her: its different … if you were forced 2 have sex against your willand u conceived a child and u kno u cnat take care of that child and it may have aids or what not …a wonan has a choice its her body
Me: IT IS NOT HER BODY
Me: IT IS A HUMAN BEING
Me: she has another option
Me: adoption
Me: she doesn’t have to take care of the baby
Her: your nnot a woman uve never faced teh situationa nd u never will its her decision her right as a human being and technically its a life but at that point its very early and is u kno u cant take care of taht child and say it has a diasability u cnat b sure it will b adopte then what?
Me: you know that there are many couples that only adopt disabled children?
Me: they feel blessed with the opportunity to care for someone
Her: yeah biut bnot ebough
Me: you have no idea how many there are
Me: do not act as if you do
Me: …her right as a human being to kill another human being?
Me: is that her right?
Her: ya know before u start tralking about soemthing with this “holier then thou” attitudde do soem more research
Me: I think you’re the one who needs to do the research
Her: u do
…(A little later on)
Me: by speaking out for those who can’t speak for themselves…if that’s what you mean by a “holier than thou” attitude then I will gladly accept doing so
Her: well god wouldnt want u condeming those who do make that decision
Me: 1 percent of 1 percent of raped women actually have a child…di you know that?
Her: ist a bad thing 4 a cathlic 2 do
Me: how about protecting the life which others say it is okay to destroy?
Me: how about the Holocaust?
Me: God wouldn’t want us to condemn Hitler for killing the JEws
Me: of course not right?
Her: different situation then what e r disscussing
Me: it is not
Me: This is the new Holocaust…
Me: 46 million babies a year
Me: 46 million lives never even given a chance
Me: 46 million kids whose mothers simply stated “you are not life” or “I don’t care that you are life, I don’t want you”
Her: it probably isnt taht simple
Me: also, the number of abortions that are actually from rapings are very low on that list
Me: “probably” isn’t good enough
Me: I simply want to give those 46 million babies a chance to live
Me: a chance to tell his or her mother how proud he or her was that she was coureagous enough to have him or her
Me: a chance to love
Her: god knows whta hes doing and if he diidnt want those babies 2 live he would fidn a way
Me: what?
Her: sorry wrongf typing
Her: if god was determined 2 have everyonre survive then he would Me: ok how about those who are diseased?
Me: I guess God is condeming them?
Me: and He is condemning the babies by simply “ignoring” them?
Me: is that it?
Her: dont twist my words
Me: okay, what are you saying?
Her: im sayying buzz off you sdont know it all
Me: that if those abortions weren’t supposed to happen then God would force them not to happen?

At this point she blocked me on the instant message system.

I feel absolutely awful! I just brought it up with another friend and now she is saying a rape caused abortion is good too. It seems all my friends are now saying something I never knew them to say. What should I do?
 
Oh, wonderful, I got into a new conversation and now my Catholic friend is saying “you don’t have to follow all the teachings of the Catholic Church” when I say that its teaching is no abortion under any circumstances. She also says that “a good catholic wouldn’t be telling another how to be a good catholic” when I said that one can’t be a good catholic without following the Church teaching especially on faith and MORALS.
 
homewardbound said:
Honestly? Find new friends OR don’t talk about abortion with them.
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I feel like God is suddenly strongly calling me to stand up. Last night I studied vigorously the statistics for abortion and other info on it, and suddenly I’m defending the live of millions of future babies to my friends. I feel like I have to at least explain to them. If they won’t listen I might not be friends with them anymore, but I have to try to teach them the value of life. I want as much life as can be saved to be saved from abortion.
 
TheApologist said:
Oh, wonderful, I got into a new conversation and now my Catholic friend is saying “you don’t have to follow all the teachings of the Catholic Church” when I say that its teaching is no abortion under any circumstances. She also says that “a good catholic wouldn’t be telling another how to be a good catholic” when I said that one can’t be a good catholic without following the Church teaching especially on faith and MORALS.
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“A good catholic wouldn’t be telling another not to tell another how to be a good catholic.”

We all have a duty to stand up for the faith.
 
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