"Well, I'm Catholic and I'm pro-choice..."

[Iowa_Mike]

Here’s something that I haven’t seen addressed… I was speaking with some good friends who are both relatively orthodox in their Catholicism. Both felt abortion was a bad thing, but that before so many women died from black market abortions. If we were to make it illegal, this situation would occur again. Thus, keeping it legal helps save the lives of women who would have an abortion one way or another.

I replied that the situation pre-Roe was not anywhere near as bad as they said it was. But my reply fell short.

Any help would be appreciated.

My first thought. Evil is evil. As a Catholic I believe that abortion in all of its forms is evil. So it doesn’t matter whether it is done in a clinic or a back alley, it is still evil. There have been over 40 million abortions in America since Roe v Wade. The number of back alley abortions before Roe v Wade are insignificant in comparision. My second thought, the women (and men) who sought back alley abortions were adults and made the choice therefore they own the consequences. Since a baby can’t speak for itself, its up to the rest of us to speak for them. Finally, justification on the basis of the choosing the lesser evil is no real justification at all.

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

There is an inference here that “pro-choice” is “pro-abortion”. That’s not very good logic. I am pro-choice but ant -abortion. I believe women should have the right to choose but they should not choose abortion. We were all born with the gift of a free will. One of God’s greatest gifts. God says you are free to choose good or evil but that does not make Him pro evil. Come to think of it, being pro free will is certainly pro-choice. It seems to me that God was the quintessential pro choicer when He decided to create us with a free will. Clearly you can be a Catholic and be a free choicer…you cannot be a Catholic and be pro-abortion.

Bob,

You thoughts here defy logic. You can’t possibly be suggesting that because God gave man free will and man subsequently excrcises his free will to do evil…abortion, murder, rape, torture, etc. etc. that God supports their decision and therefore the evil it represents. Surely you jest!

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

If you look at the national statistics and we had a nation-wide vote on abortion with these options on the ballot:

1. Abortion should always be legal…even after the baby is outta the womb…not after the umbilical cord is cut.

2)Abortion should always be legal in the womb.

3)Abortion should be legal until the baby starts moving, getting ready to leave the womb.

4)Abortion should be legal up until the third trimester

5)Abortion should only be legal up until the earliest known viable baby was born.

6)Abortion should be legal until the baby’s heart beat starts.

7)Abortion should be legal the first month of pregnancy.

8)Abortion should be legal only the first week of pregnancy.

9)Abortion should be legal only in case of rape and health issues which would kill the mother if she had her child.

10)Abortion should be legal only in case of the big possibility of death to the mother if she continues to carry her baby.

…If this were the ballot, you’d be surprised how many people would vote 9.

Since when have moral standards been set by the vote? As a Catholic there is only one authority…God who through His word established our moral code. In case you missed it…he doesn’t support abortion.

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

People do rob banks…people do commit rape…people do choose to murder their wives, husbands, neighbors and drug-dealing rivals.
In all of these cases there is a "that they should be punished. That consensus clearly does not exist in our current society concerning abortion and, until it does, I’ll continue to try to convince women to choose life rather than waste my time trying to change a law that will have little effect on the number of abortions.
Laws are only effective if there is a societal consensus.

Bob,

I’ve come into this discussion late…a curse associated with working for a living. I guess I’m missing something, perhaps you can catch me up. I’m discussing abortion from a Catholic point of view. From your remarks you seem to come at the issue from a secular point of view, correct? This will help me understand the context of your remarks.

A couple of thoughts:

I believe you confuse the terms pro-choice and free will. God gave man free will…man then makes choices between good and evil. What man chooses will ulimately determine his eternal fate. In the words of Fr. Carapi, at the end of time you and I will either be in heaven or in hell. It is our choices that take us to one of the two destinations.

Secondly, your comment above that “rather than waste my time trying to change a law that will have little effect on the number of abortions” is flat wrong. Abortion skyrocketed after Roe v Wade and no doubt would fall back if it were reversed.

Iowa Mike