Went into Church bookstore/ giftshop and saw a non-Christian prayer hanging on the door

[rcscwc]

But the cross doesn’t.

Believe it or not, different religions are different!

I believe it. Sarva Dharma Sambhava. All parths are possible.

If what you are trying to do is an “equal-opportunity” denigration of religions - Native American beliefs are “fetish” which is bad, therefore Catholicism must be fetish too so nobody can claim to be different or superior or anything - then I feel rather insulted.

Pal, you forget. I did not embark on calling different beliefs as FETISH. I do not want an equal opportunity for anything. I just hope members are careful about what they say about different belief systems. You feel insulted, but remember, others too might feel insulted.

 

[pnewton]

I see no problem with what was posted, as with the traditional Irish blessing. Now it might be indicative of Catholic/New Age intermingling which would be very bad, but by itself it is not big deal. I would take a rumage through the store before judging such a place as uncatholic.

 

[pnewton]

Attacking my handle is a red herring: "an argument, given in reply, that does not address the original issue.

Yes, it is at a diocese Church of Card. Mahony.

Anyone else notice the problem with these two statements?

If I may ask, did you find any other issues with this store? What titles did they carry, for example?

 

[ac_claire]

Anyone else notice the problem with these two statements?

If I may ask, did you find any other issues with this store? What titles did they carry, for example?

I may be missing it but I don’t see the problem. The second quote was in response to someone asking if the store was located in an actual church building.

I’d say the prayer is only indicative of a problem if the store is full of New Age-y, liberal, spiritualism-type things. By itself, I don’t think it’s a huge problem, although an actual Catholic prayer would obviously be more appropriate.

 

[pnewton]

Anyone else notice the problem with these two statements?

I may be missing it but I don’t see the problem.

The first statement is a request to avoid ad hominem arguments, as his user name is irrelecant. . Yet, the poster did not just answer that, yes, the store is in a Church He gave the name of the Cardinal of the Diocese. He did not give the priest name, or general location or just a simple “yes”. Cardinal Mahoney’s name was added. For those not aware, the Cardinal is a major whipping boy for all things wrong with the Church.

 

[Cecilianus]

The first statement is a request to avoid ad hominem arguments, as his user name is irrelecant. . Yet, the poster did not just answer that, yes, the store is in a Church He gave the name of the Cardinal of the Diocese. He did not give the priest name, or general location or just a simple “yes”. Cardinal Mahoney’s name was added. For those not aware, the Cardinal is a major whipping boy for all things wrong with the Church.

And he is a major dissenter, not just a major “whipping boy”. The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus seems to be denied when you have non-Christian prayers hanging in a church bookstore, and that dogma is one which Cardinal Mahoney explicitly rejected, in his weekly column in the archdiocesan newspaper (The Tidings) when he chose to attack the document Dominus Iesus. The original point in mentioning all of this was that appealing to the bishop in this case would do absolutely no good whatsoever. It was never intended as an ad hominem argument.

 

[revert_jen]

Pal, you forget. I did not embark on calling different beliefs as FETISH. I do not want an equal opportunity for anything. I just hope members are careful about what they say about different belief systems. You feel insulted, but remember, others too might feel insulted.

It seemed to me that the poster was using the word fetish in a descriptive way, not a derogatory way. One can say that Christianity is not a religion of fetishism without saying that there is anything wrong about fetishism, except that, as a Catholic, one doesn’t think it is true.

If one is going to be offended that Catholics think the beliefs of non-Christian religions aren’t true, one should probably not be on a Catholic forum unless one enjoys being offended.

–Jen

 

[pnewton]

And he is a major dissenter, not just a major “whipping boy”. The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus seems to be denied when you have non-Christian prayers hanging in a church bookstore, and that dogma is one which Cardinal Mahoney explicitly rejected,

Thank you for illustrating my point.

The use of Mahoney’s name is an ad hominem, unless the OP is claiming that Mahoney himself hung that prayer and the OP is hypocritical for using that name, then criticizing some one else for the same type of ad hominem argument.

This thread, and that prayer, has nothing to do with Cardinal Mahoney and that prayer, by itself, does not deny the dogma you mention.

 

[Cecilianus]

Thank you for illustrating my point.

The use of Mahoney’s name is an ad hominem, unless the OP is claiming that Mahoney himself hung that prayer and the OP is hypocritical for using that name, then criticizing some one else for the same type of ad hominem argument.

This thread, and that prayer, has nothing to do with Cardinal Mahoney and that prayer, by itself, does not deny the dogma you mention.

It’s not an ad hominem because someone suggested that the OP go to the bishop to fix the problem. If the bishop is Cardinal Mahoney, that’s not going to work so well.

 

[ac_claire]

The first statement is a request to avoid ad hominem arguments, as his user name is irrelecant. . Yet, the poster did not just answer that, yes, the store is in a Church He gave the name of the Cardinal of the Diocese. He did not give the priest name, or general location or just a simple “yes”. Cardinal Mahoney’s name was added. For those not aware, the Cardinal is a major whipping boy for all things wrong with the Church.

There’s very good reason that Cardinal Mahoney has the reputation that he has. But yeah, I do see what you were pointing out now. Not sure that it was an ad hominem statement though.

 

[maryjk]

Instead of saying something to the two ladies, you need to talk to the Pastor of the church. If it is anything like our church store, the ladies there are volunteers. Chances are, they didn’t put up or choose any of the merchandise.

If the Pastor isn’t in charge, then maybe it isn’t the Catholic Store you think it is. Is it located in the church building?

It’s not an ad hominem because someone suggested that the OP go to the bishop to fix the problem. If the bishop is Cardinal Mahoney, that’s not going to work so well.

I suggested he go to the Pastor and asked if he was sure the store was Catholic. Instead of answering if the store was Catholic or going to the Pastor, he told me the name of his bishop.

There’s very good reason that Cardinal Mahoney has the reputation that he has. But yeah, I do see what you were pointing out now. Not sure that it was an ad hominem statement though.

What we really need to know, is if the store is Catholic and run by the Pastor.

Our Bishop has nothing to do with our store. I know because I run it. The Pastor on the other hand knows pretty much everything about the store. And when you see ladies at the register, checking people out, they are volunteers and work once a month.

 

[pnewton]

It’s not an ad hominem because someone suggested that the OP go to the bishop to fix the problem. If the bishop is Cardinal Mahoney, that’s not going to work so well.

I think the same could be said of any bishop, unless a concrete objection to the prayer can be made based on its content, not its origin. If such an objection exists, the remedy does not changed based on whether we like or dislike a certain bishop.