Went to first Traditional Latin Mass today

[MissRose73]

I am sure there are good things in each rite. I’ve never been to any Eastern Rite Catholic church to see what it would be like even if I do not speak & understand the languages.

I’ve attended Ordinary Form all of my life as I was born & raised after Vatican II. I recently started to going to the Extraordinary Form this year, and love the reverence, the quiet, the music during High Masses, etc.

 

[ProVobis]

where it has been losing membership steadily since the 1900s (aka, before the OF was even introduced).

Except maybe for the periods surrounding the major world wars, where perhaps they appreciated the Mass a little bit more in the midst of the higher probability of being killed.

But whether you’re correct or not, I don’t think the drop in Masses said (especially the English ones) and overall Mass attendance of Catholics from 70% in 1960 to what it is now (around 25% in developed countries) is insignificant.

 

[promethius]

But whether you’re correct or not, I don’t think the drop in Masses said (especially the English ones) and overall Mass attendance of Catholics from 70% in 1960 to what it is now (around 25% in developed countries) is insignificant.

It’s not insignificant. It’s also regional, and not a product of either the rite used or the language. It has more to do with materialist heresy (particularly Americanism), the spread of relativism, and disobedience as a value in culture. The point was that we can’t blame the OF for the decline in the west, when the OF is also behind the largest expansion of the church ever, particularly in the east and in Africa. The reality is that we, ourselves, in the west are to blame.

 

[E.E.N.S]

It’s not insignificant. It’s also regional, and not a product of either the rite used or the language. It has more to do with materialist heresy (particularly Americanism), the spread of relativism, and disobedience as a value in culture. The point was that we can’t blame the OF for the decline in the west, when the OF is also behind the largest expansion of the church ever, particularly in the east and in Africa. The reality is that we, ourselves, in the west are to blame.

I would like to add my $0.02 for a moment. The problem is largely catechesis, which is indeed tied in some part to the liturgy, after all,* lex orandi lex credendi*. That being said, I don’t want to rest the blame on the OF itself, but rather the poor, and often times improper, celebration of the OF.

 

[ProVobis]

It’s not insignificant. It’s also regional, and not a product of either the rite used or the language.

Not completely, no, but with the English Mass, the Church has to compete with Lutherans, Baptists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc. Contrast that with a Polish Mass, where 90% of Poland is Catholic. I don’t think Polish Mass attendance of 70%, no matter how many abuses, is an anomaly. But I could be wrong.

 

[roadsend]

I would like to add my $0.02 for a moment. The problem is largely catechesis, which is indeed tied in some part to the liturgy, after all,* lex orandi lex credendi*. That being said, I don’t want to rest the blame on the OF itself, but rather the poor, and often times improper, celebration of the OF.

You are spot on in your assessment.

 

[roadsend]

I’m sorry, can you clarify… you seem to be saying here that the OF is not “authentic” catholic worship and, as I understand it, that’s a violation of forum rules… I’d rather offer you the chance to clarify before I report your post.

Your expectations are completely off the mark in terms of social trends currently under way then. While the church is decreasing as a percentage of population in latin America, it is growing in terms of numbers over all. The church is bigger than it has ever been, in fact when we compare the size of the church in America it has grown by 50% since 1962 and worldwide the size of the church has nearly doubled.

There is no valid argument whatsoever that the OF has led to abandonment of the church, and the only place that the church IS being abandoned is in the Western First world… where it has been losing membership steadily since the 1900s (aka, before the OF was even introduced).

So it isn’t the rite influencing the number of Catholics… or you have to credit the OF with the fastest growing period of catholicism the world has ever seen.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I have never criticized the OF, when celebrated according to the rubrics.
The problem is that it in too many places, including the region of the country where I live, Church law and teachings regarding the conduct of the Mass are not followed. Illicit rituals are frequently introduced into the Mass. I have even seen invalid matter used for Communion bread.
There is no way that you can convince me that this sort of thing has not weakened or destroyed the faith of many.
If you think that I am violating forum rules by saying this sort of thing, don’t threaten to “report” me, just press the alert button. It is the small triangle in the upper right hand corner of each post.

 

[promethius]

Please do not put words in my mouth. I have never criticized the OF, when celebrated according to the rubrics.
The problem is that it in too many places, including the region of the country where I live, Church law and teachings regarding the conduct of the Mass are not followed. Illicit rituals are frequently introduced into the Mass. I have even seen invalid matter used for Communion bread.
There is no way that you can convince me that this sort of thing has not weakened or destroyed the faith of many.
If you think that I am violating forum rules by saying this sort of thing, don’t threaten to “report” me, just press the alert button. It is the small triangle in the upper right hand corner of each post.

I endeavor always to follow the Catechism as regards avoiding rash judgement and calumny:

To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280
In other words, I would not want to bear false witness against you by reporting you for something you did not actually mean to say.

Thank you for your clarification.