We're Adam and Eve vegetarians?

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Has it occurred to any of you that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth?

You don’t honestly believe in the walking talking snake, etc.?

Maybe argue what primitive man ate?
 
Has it occurred to any of you that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth?

You don’t honestly believe in the walking talking snake, etc.?

Maybe argue what primitive man ate?
I believe there was a first couple who committed the original sin or do you dismiss that too?
 
Has it occurred to any of you that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth?

You don’t honestly believe in the walking talking snake, etc.?

Maybe argue what primitive man ate?
No, it hasn’t occurred…sorry.

You’re welcome to open your own thread about the walking talking snake and what primitive man ate if you’d like. This topic is discussing the possibilities of; if Adam and Eve were or could have been vegetarian.
 
No, it hasn’t occurred…sorry.

You’re welcome to open your own thread about the walking talking snake and what primitive man ate if you’d like. This topic is discussing the possibilities of; if Adam and Eve were or could have been vegetarian.
 
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psregor:
Are you saying you actually believe these two creatures existed?

What’s next? A thread on how did Alice survive her long fall down the rabbit hole?
 
Has it occurred to any of you that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth?

You don’t honestly believe in the walking talking snake, etc.?

Maybe argue what primitive man ate?
However, the serpent in Genesis is not just any animal. He is seen as the explanation of the presence of Satan, a fallen angel who mendaciously seduces Adam. Adam could have resisted, but he didn’t.

Enough derailing on with the topic!!!

Shalom
God bless
 
Has it occurred to any of you that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth?

You don’t honestly believe in the walking talking snake, etc.?

Maybe argue what primitive man ate?
Dear psregor,

You seem to have a narrow understanding of what a myth is. I think wikipedia does a fairly good job of explaining it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology

Catholic apologetics, which is based on our understanding of Sacred Scripture as handed onto us by the Church fathers, embraces Sacred Scripture as mythology almost exactly as you will find it defined in the article/wikipedia link. It is not always factual, but it does convey deeply held truths.

That is why it is the literal word of God, conveyed by the “Holy Spirit, who has spoken through the prophets.” Our human minds are incapable of grasping the fullness, and beauty of God. So we use allegory and myth to do so. BTW literal does not equal factual.

So the answer is, no, we don’t believe in a walking, talking snake, but yes, we do believe in a walking talking snake.

We also believe in reason, science, philosophy, etc. Therefore we do also study what primitive men ate. This is why the Church is the founder of the university system, the scientific method, why a monk, Gregor Mendel, is the father of genetics, and why a priest, Fr. Georges Lemaître, first proposed the Big Bang Theory, among many other scientific first and achievements.

catholicscomehome.org/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

Faith and Reason are not in conflict. Faith informs reason, reason likewise informs faith.

The Church’s understanding of this has bourne itself out in study after study by “secular” and “scientific” study time after time, in regard to all aspects of life, from marriage, sex, child rearing, human social function, work, and science.

news-releases.uiowa.edu/2011/june/061411paik_study.html
mentalhealth.about.com/library/sci/0501/blfaith501.htm

Even new atheism based scientific blogs like newscientist.com/section/health acknowlede the faith and reason are innate and separation of the two leads to individual and societal problems. This is why so many “new atheists” are seeking to form more structural supports like “humanist churches.”

God bless you and be with you.
 
The point remains.

The serpent was not real. How any person can objectively read Genesis and not see it
as a myth is a puzzle.

Apparently you people cannot.

So . . . on with the Tea Party!

Maybe that’s a pun.
 
The point remains.

The serpent was not real. How any person can objectively read Genesis and not see it
as a myth is a puzzle.

Apparently you people cannot.

So . . . on with the Tea Party!

Maybe that’s a pun.
Do you believe that evil is real?

If you do, would you please describe it, and do so in a way that will convery what evil is for millenia to come, so that even a simpleton might understand it.

Happy unbirthday! Enjoy your tea, have a piece of cake, but don’t be late, don’t be late!!! Where is my hat?
 
The question of evil is another whole subject.

The point is (difficult as it may be to grasp) is that the story of creation in the bible (of which there are two versions) is clearly not factual. So to seriously hypothesize the eating habits of two non-existing beings is silly. One might as well consider what the lions were supposed to eat before the fall. They were vegetarians?
 
The question of evil is another whole subject.

The point is (difficult as it may be to grasp) is that the story of creation in the bible (of which there are two versions) is clearly not factual. So to seriously hypothesize the eating habits of two non-existing beings is silly. One might as well consider what the lions were supposed to eat before the fall. They were vegetarians?
Your point, sadly, is quite easily grasped.

The question was asked as a mental trip for our bretheren, Mgray82, and your posts are an attempt to shame those who seek to answer.

However, we are evaluating it from both a biblical/theological basis, literal and factual.

That is what good apologetics requires. Our apologetics must be able to answer not only those questions posed by athiests, but also literal fundamentalist, and for other Catholics.

Humans are created, you can say that creation began via evolution with our cenancestor - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUCA.

As far as you are concerned, from your perspective as an athiest, it is a series of chance collision of molecules and organelles driven by a volitile climate that over time led to modern humans. Very factual.

Also, as far as an Adam and Eve, even the most ardent athiest scientist would say that, genetically, every human on the planet, is decended from one man, Y-chromosomal Adam, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Adam, and one woman, Mitochondrial Eve, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve, from the fertile pains of Africa, a “garden” of life and diversity. Very factual.

At that point in time, our genetic recent common ancestors, scientically designated Adam and Eve, were certainly not vegetarian. Very factual.

Now give me truth.

Again I ask, explain the complexities of human behavior, evil, love, hate, murder, in such a way that it will be transported and understood, and bear true for millenia.

The reason why literature last, why myth last, why myth is universal to humanity–you can study Joseph Campbell here–are not so much for the facts – although there are many facts contained in them – they last for the truths the convey.

You have made reference to Alice in your post. Is that because it holds truths for you or because of the facts in the story. Is it for the real Alice for whom it was written, or the factual reasearch used to back it up, or the truthful nonsense of it that particular myth? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice%27s_Adventures_in_Wonderland.

There is also what our biblical authors did in the two different, but similar creation stories.

They gave us an abundance of TRUTH. Truth which has been borne out in scientific studies again and again.

It took humans until the advent of modern genetics to understand that there was an Adam and Eve, who evolved in a fertile African plain. The written Bible, beat genetic science to those facts and that truth by 3000 years.

Truths about the facts of human behavior, as described in the bible, and of human history, have also proven true. I would say, there are a multitude of facts in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. The most important of which is that we are created, flawed, beings.

Therefore the question as to what Adam and Eve ate, and why, are intrinsically linked with the question of evil, since evil, and the reason for it’s existence, is a question of human behavior. It is NOT, as you say, “another whole subject,” especially given that the entirety of the Bible, of human history, and likely of human existence, seeks to answer that question, among others.

More importantly, the Bible is filled with an abundance of truths, which melded the faith and reason of our the Biblical authors, which continued to be borne by the ancient Church, and which is certainly still present in the modern church.

I am, as are many others, are answering, but you are intent to stick your mental foot so that we might have a mental trip.

I am almost entirely certain that you understand what you are doing, and that you understand our answers.

Your apologetics are geared toward athiesm, ours is geared toward our faith, based on reason.

Please do not assume that because we are people of faith we are fools bent on sliding down the rabbit hole.

Would you be as opposed to a Kirk v Picard fight, and who would win? They are far more fictional, but to some, they are just as sacred, and to yet some others, total nonsense.
 
The question of evil is another whole subject.

The point is (difficult as it may be to grasp) is that the story of creation in the bible (of which there are two versions) is clearly not factual. So to seriously hypothesize the eating habits of two non-existing beings is silly. One might as well consider what the lions were supposed to eat before the fall. They were vegetarians?
Okay, so if Adam and Eve did not exist…how would you suggest our first ancestors ate?
 
Your point, sadly, is quite easily grasped.

The question was asked as a mental trip for our bretheren, Mgray82, and your posts are an attempt to shame those who seek to answer.

However, we are evaluating it from both a biblical/theological basis, literal and factual.

That is what good apologetics requires. Our apologetics must be able to answer not only those questions posed by athiests, but also literal fundamentalist, and for other Catholics.

Humans are created, you can say that creation began via evolution with our cenancestor - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUCA.

As far as you are concerned, from your perspective as an athiest, it is a series of chance collision of molecules and organelles driven by a volitile climate that over time led to modern humans. Very factual.

Also, as far as an Adam and Eve, even the most ardent athiest scientist would say that, genetically, every human on the planet, is decended from one man, Y-chromosomal Adam, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Adam, and one woman, Mitochondrial Eve, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve, from the fertile pains of Africa, a “garden” of life and diversity. Very factual.

At that point in time, our genetic recent common ancestors, scientically designated Adam and Eve, were certainly not vegetarian. Very factual.

Now give me truth.

Again I ask, explain the complexities of human behavior, evil, love, hate, murder, in such a way that it will be transported and understood, and bear true for millenia.

The reason why literature last, why myth last, why myth is universal to humanity–you can study Joseph Campbell here–are not so much for the facts – although there are many facts contained in them – they last for the truths the convey.

You have made reference to Alice in your post. Is that because it holds truths for you or because of the facts in the story. Is it for the real Alice for whom it was written, or the factual reasearch used to back it up, or the truthful nonsense of it that particular myth? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice%27s_Adventures_in_Wonderland.

There is also what our biblical authors did in the two different, but similar creation stories.

They gave us an abundance of TRUTH. Truth which has been borne out in scientific studies again and again.

It took humans until the advent of modern genetics to understand that there was an Adam and Eve, who evolved in a fertile African plain. The written Bible, beat genetic science to those facts and that truth by 3000 years.

Truths about the facts of human behavior, as described in the bible, and of human history, have also proven true. I would say, there are a multitude of facts in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. The most important of which is that we are created, flawed, beings.

Therefore the question as to what Adam and Eve ate, and why, are intrinsically linked with the question of evil, since evil, and the reason for it’s existence, is a question of human behavior. It is NOT, as you say, “another whole subject,” especially given that the entirety of the Bible, of human history, and likely of human existence, seeks to answer that question, among others.

More importantly, the Bible is filled with an abundance of truths, which melded the faith and reason of our the Biblical authors, which continued to be borne by the ancient Church, and which is certainly still present in the modern church.

I am, as are many others, are answering, but you are intent to stick your mental foot so that we might have a mental trip.

I am almost entirely certain that you understand what you are doing, and that you understand our answers.

Your apologetics are geared toward athiesm, ours is geared toward our faith, based on reason.

Please do not assume that because we are people of faith we are fools bent on sliding down the rabbit hole.

Would you be as opposed to a Kirk v Picard fight, and who would win? They are far more fictional, but to some, they are just as sacred, and to yet some others, total nonsense.
I don’t think our atheist friend took the time to read this…there’s a lot there. Good stuff.
 
Dear psregor,

You seem to have a narrow understanding of what a myth is. I think wikipedia does a fairly good job of explaining it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology

Catholic apologetics, which is based on our understanding of Sacred Scripture as handed onto us by the Church fathers, embraces Sacred Scripture as mythology almost exactly as you will find it defined in the article/wikipedia link. It is not always factual, but it does convey deeply held truths.

That is why it is the literal word of God, conveyed by the “Holy Spirit, who has spoken through the prophets.” Our human minds are incapable of grasping the fullness, and beauty of God. So we use allegory and myth to do so. BTW literal does not equal factual.

So the answer is, no, we don’t believe in a walking, talking snake, but yes, we do believe in a walking talking snake.

We also believe in reason, science, philosophy, etc. Therefore we do also study what primitive men ate. This is why the Church is the founder of the university system, the scientific method, why a monk, Gregor Mendel, is the father of genetics, and why a priest, Fr. Georges Lemaître, first proposed the Big Bang Theory, among many other scientific first and achievements.

catholicscomehome.org/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

Faith and Reason are not in conflict. Faith informs reason, reason likewise informs faith.

The Church’s understanding of this has bourne itself out in study after study by “secular” and “scientific” study time after time, in regard to all aspects of life, from marriage, sex, child rearing, human social function, work, and science.

news-releases.uiowa.edu/2011/june/061411paik_study.html
mentalhealth.about.com/library/sci/0501/blfaith501.htm

Even new atheism based scientific blogs like newscientist.com/section/health acknowlede the faith and reason are innate and separation of the two leads to individual and societal problems. This is why so many “new atheists” are seeking to form more structural supports like “humanist churches.”

God bless you and be with you.
 
In this context I meant myth as simply ‘non-factual’’. As sacred scripture apparently God chose to rewrite the Babylonian creation myth for the (at least) two authors of Genesis.

The question remains: why discuss the eating habits of two people who never existed?

There are a lot more serious questions one could ask about Genesis from a literary analysis standpoint, but assuming it to be a literal description of first events is sophmoric. Ask a Jesuit.
 
In this context I meant myth as simply ‘non-factual’’. As sacred scripture apparently God chose to rewrite the Babylonian creation myth for the (at least) two authors of Genesis.

The question remains: why discuss the eating habits of two people who never existed?

There are a lot more serious questions one could ask about Genesis from a literary analysis standpoint, but assuming it to be a literal description of first events is sophmoric. Ask a Jesuit.
No, that’s not the question. If you see the original post it was clearly, “were Adam and Eve vegetarians”? Not “did Adam and Eve exist” or “why discuss the eating habits of Adam and Eve”.

The poster you quoted gave you a whole lot of “factual” evidence that most athiest agree with (the x and y chromosome particularly).

I’m not following you with the rest of whatever point you’re trying to make. Doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Not sure what “asking a Jesuit” has to do with anything on here…
 
No, that’s not the question. If you see the original post it was clearly, “were Adam and Eve vegetarians”? Not “did Adam and Eve exist” or “why discuss the eating habits of Adam and Eve”.

The poster you quoted gave you a whole lot of “factual” evidence that most athiest agree with (the x and y chromosome particularly).

I’m not following you with the rest of whatever point you’re trying to make. Doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Not sure what “asking a Jesuit” has to do with anything on here…
As I stated earlier, psregor is not asking any legitimate questions, nor will any legitimate answer to the said even less legitimate question be accepted.

The primary intent seems to be to abash and shame us as if we are incapable of logical thought or expression.

The point seems to be simply to argue for the sake of argument, making not real point, in an attempt to frustrate the discussion, and thereby claim proof of our illogic.
 
Your point, sadly, is quite easily grasped.

The question was asked as a mental trip for our bretheren, Mgray82, and your posts are an attempt to shame those who seek to answer.

However, we are evaluating it from both a biblical/theological basis, literal and factual.

That is what good apologetics requires. Our apologetics must be able to answer not only those questions posed by athiests, but also literal fundamentalist, and for other Catholics.

Humans are created, you can say that creation began via evolution with our cenancestor - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUCA.

As far as you are concerned, from your perspective as an athiest, it is a series of chance collision of molecules and organelles driven by a volitile climate that over time led to modern humans. Very factual.

Also, as far as an Adam and Eve, even the most ardent athiest scientist would say that, genetically, every human on the planet, is decended from one man, Y-chromosomal Adam, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Adam, and one woman, Mitochondrial Eve, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve, from the fertile pains of Africa, a “garden” of life and diversity. Very factual.

At that point in time, our genetic recent common ancestors, scientically designated Adam and Eve, were certainly not vegetarian. Very factual.

Now give me truth.

Again I ask, explain the complexities of human behavior, evil, love, hate, murder, in such a way that it will be transported and understood, and bear true for millenia.

The reason why literature last, why myth last, why myth is universal to humanity–you can study Joseph Campbell here–are not so much for the facts – although there are many facts contained in them – they last for the truths the convey.

You have made reference to Alice in your post. Is that because it holds truths for you or because of the facts in the story. Is it for the real Alice for whom it was written, or the factual reasearch used to back it up, or the truthful nonsense of it that particular myth? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice%27s_Adventures_in_Wonderland.

There is also what our biblical authors did in the two different, but similar creation stories.

They gave us an abundance of TRUTH. Truth which has been borne out in scientific studies again and again.

It took humans until the advent of modern genetics to understand that there was an Adam and Eve, who evolved in a fertile African plain. The written Bible, beat genetic science to those facts and that truth by 3000 years.

Truths about the facts of human behavior, as described in the bible, and of human history, have also proven true. I would say, there are a multitude of facts in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. The most important of which is that we are created, flawed, beings.

Therefore the question as to what Adam and Eve ate, and why, are intrinsically linked with the question of evil, since evil, and the reason for it’s existence, is a question of human behavior. It is NOT, as you say, “another whole subject,” especially given that the entirety of the Bible, of human history, and likely of human existence, seeks to answer that question, among others.

More importantly, the Bible is filled with an abundance of truths, which melded the faith and reason of our the Biblical authors, which continued to be borne by the ancient Church, and which is certainly still present in the modern church.

I am, as are many others, are answering, but you are intent to stick your mental foot so that we might have a mental trip.

I am almost entirely certain that you understand what you are doing, and that you understand our answers.

Your apologetics are geared toward athiesm, ours is geared toward our faith, based on reason.

Please do not assume that because we are people of faith we are fools bent on sliding down the rabbit hole.

Would you be as opposed to a Kirk v Picard fight, and who would win? They are far more fictional, but to some, they are just as sacred, and to yet some others, total nonsense.
 
I write Adam and Eve did not really exist and from this you conclude I am an atheist: brilliant!

Science backs up the story of Adam and Eve after the Jews corrected the ancient Babylonian story which had got it almost right. Yeah sure.

I give up.

Adam and Eve were vegetarians. This explains why so many believers in their actual existence are so full of wind and self-rightousness.

Next thread: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Deep theological question.
 
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