Were All Issues In This Past Election Of Equal Moral Weight?

[elts1956]

WERE ALL THE ISSUES IN THIS ELECTION OF EQUAL WEIGHT?

Victim of Abortion- No chance to live.
Poverty- a chance to live even if destitute

Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
War - A chance to live

Victim of Abortion - No chance to live.
Environment - Can be changed

Victim of Abortion - No chance to live.
Economy - can be bettered.

Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.

Need I go on?

 

[johnshark]

1. poverty- you cant get out of it if you’re dead
   2.war- cant survive it or stop it if you’re dead
   3.environment- you cant clean it up if you’re dead
   4.economy- you cant fix it if you’re dead
   5.everyone born or unborn has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

THE FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLE ISSUES

These five issues are called non-negotiable because they concern actions that are always morally wrong and must never be promoted by the law. It is a serious sin to endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who really wants to advance the common good will support any of the five non-negotiables.

1. Abortion

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is “never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it” (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.

The child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not the child’s, who should not suffer death for others’ sins.

1. Euthanasia

Often disguised by the name “mercy killing,” euthanasia also is a form of homicide. No one has a right to take his own life (suicide), and no one has the right to take the life of any innocent person.

In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed out of a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include doing something intrinsically evil to another person (cf. EV 73).

1. Fetal Stem Cell Research

Human embryos are human beings. “Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo” (CRF 4b).

Recent scientific advances show that any medical cure that might arise from experimentation on fetal stem cells can be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there no longer is a medical argument in favor of using fetal stem cells.

1. Human Cloning

“Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with sexuality through ‘twin fission,’ cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union” (RHL I:6).

Human cloning also ends up being a form of homicide because the “rejected” or “unsuccessful” clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human being.

1. Homosexual “Marriage”

True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of any other form of “marriage” undermines true marriage, and legal recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral arrangement.

“When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral” (UHP 10).

 

[Gamera]

I still want to see authoritative teaching of these particular issues as being “five non-negotiables.” So far as I know, no imprimater has been given to any document which calls these particular issues “five non-negotiables.”

But of course the abortion holocaust is the primary issue in our society. Little else matters when a child is being legally killed roughly every 25 seconds.

Obama won’t be the first holocaust collaborator to hold the Presidency. At least his first term probably won’t present him with the opportunity to replace any pro-life Supreme Court justices (those nearest retirement are pro-abortion). The biggest pro-life concern for the immediate future, politically speaking, will be to ensure that FOCA doesn’t pass Congress so that Obama would have a chance to sign it.

 

[johnshark]

all five of these non negotiable’s are printed in book form with the imprimatur. the book is the Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

[Gamera]

all five of these non negotiable’s are printed in book form with the imprimatur. the book is the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Nope. I’ve read the Catechism of the Catholic Church cover to cover. Nowhere does it teach that there are “Five non-negotiable issues.”

 

[Andruschak]

WERE ALL THE ISSUES IN THIS ELECTION OF EQUAL WEIGHT?

Victim of Abortion- No chance to live.
Poverty- a chance to live even if destitute

Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
War - A chance to live

Victim of Abortion - No chance to live.
Environment - Can be changed

Victim of Abortion - No chance to live.
Economy - can be bettered.

Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.

Need I go on?

No, but you really should transfer this thread to the POLITICS:2008 forum

 

[Andruschak]

all five of these non negotiable’s are printed in book form with the imprimatur. the book is the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Show me: name the exact sections. I have a copy of the entire catechism at home.:coffeeread:

 

[elts1956]

I still want to see authoritative teaching of these particular issues as being “five non-negotiables.” So far as I know, no imprimater has been given to any document which calls these particular issues “five non-negotiables.”

But of course the abortion holocaust is the primary issue in our society. Little else matters when a child is being legally killed roughly every 25 seconds.

Obama won’t be the first holocaust collaborator to hold the Presidency. At least his first term probably won’t present him with the opportunity to replace any pro-life Supreme Court justices (those nearest retirement are pro-abortion). The biggest pro-life concern for the immediate future, politically speaking, will be to ensure that FOCA doesn’t pass Congress so that Obama would have a chance to sign it.

Also these five non-negotiables are based on Natural Law and as such are protected by Holy Mother Church. I think John Paul II in Evangelium Vitae expressed these.

 

[elts1956]

I still want to see authoritative teaching of these particular issues as being “five non-negotiables.” So far as I know, no imprimater has been given to any document which calls these particular issues “five non-negotiables.”

But of course the abortion holocaust is the primary issue in our society. Little else matters when a child is being legally killed roughly every 25 seconds.

Obama won’t be the first holocaust collaborator to hold the Presidency. At least his first term probably won’t present him with the opportunity to replace any pro-life Supreme Court justices (those nearest retirement are pro-abortion). The biggest pro-life concern for the immediate future, politically speaking, will be to ensure that FOCA doesn’t pass Congress so that Obama would have a chance to sign it.

No, but you really should transfer this thread to the POLITICS:2008 forum

Tried to figure out which forum would be the best. I chose Social Justice under Apologetics.???

 

[ribozyme]

WERE ALL THE ISSUES IN THIS ELECTION OF EQUAL WEIGHT?

Victim of Abortion- No chance to live.
Poverty- a chance to live even if destitute

Need I go on?

Is the chance of escaping poverty very high? Or will there be a significant chance that allowing the fetus to live will lead to a life of misery, adversity, and suffering for it?

 

[elts1956]

Is the chance of escaping poverty very high? Or will there be a significant chance that allowing the fetus to live will lead to a life of misery, adversity, and suffering for it?

Unfortunately none of us have a magic wand to wave to make all the ills of the world go away, nor are there many of us who are saints and can work miracles… But we do have one thing we can do. Save a child’s life and give that child the CHANCE to do what God intends. This is a being made in the image of God. What right do we have to choose death for her? And don’t give me the BS that the mother chooses. We choose to LET it happen.

We will be judged not only by what we do, but by what we FAIL to do.

But this should make you happy.

12 Species of Flies Get Federal Protection

livescience.com/animals/ap_060510_flies_endangered.html

 

[ribozyme]

Unfortunately none of us have a magic wand to wave to make all the ills of the world go away, nor are there many of us who are saints and can work miracles… But we do have one thing we can do. Save a child’s life and give that child the CHANCE to do what God intends. This is a being made in the image of God. What right do we have to choose death for her? And don’t give me the BS that the mother chooses. We choose to LET it happen.

We will be judged not only by what we do, but by what we FAIL to do.

But this should make you happy.

12 Species of Flies Get Federal Protection

livescience.com/animals/ap_060510_flies_endangered.html

What are the odds, one in a thousand, one in a hundred, one in one? From what I see, the odds do not seem favorable for some people.

 

[Gamera]

Also these five non-negotiables are based on Natural Law and as such are protected by Holy Mother Church. I think John Paul II in Evangelium Vitae expressed these.

Other principles are also based on Natural Law and as such are protected by Holy Mother Church – for instance, the Just War principle. You seem to think I am dissenting from Church teaching. I am not. There is NO Church teaching that there are “five non-negotiable” voting issues. On the contrary, the Catholic Bishops repeatedly have made clear that there are more than five issues for Catholics to consider when voting. Where do you get the idea that there are “five” non-negotiable issues, rather than six or seven or eight? What document of Holy Mother Church teaches that? None.

 

[Gamera]

Is the chance of escaping poverty very high? Or will there be a significant chance that allowing the fetus to live will lead to a life of misery, adversity, and suffering for it?

It fascinates me that you equate poverty with misery, adversity and suffering. Talk about plutocracy. Just how much annual income must a person earn to deserve to live?

 

[elts1956]

Other principles are also based on Natural Law and as such are protected by Holy Mother Church – for instance, the Just War principle. You seem to think I am dissenting from Church teaching. I am not. There is NO Church teaching that there are “five non-negotiable” voting issues. On the contrary, the Catholic Bishops repeatedly have made clear that there are more than five issues for Catholics to consider when voting. Where do you get the idea that there are “five” non-negotiable issues, rather than six or seven or eight? What document of Holy Mother Church teaches that? None.

The “Holy” document written by the USCCB was a compromise statement. There were a few Bishops such a Martino of Scranton, I beleive who refused to sign it. And who can say he was any more wrong than a Bishop who states Immigration, or War are Intrinsic Evils. Perhaps your Bishop has stated differently. I would question him on it. It sounds as though some of these gentlemen have chosen their own pet projects, not to minimize the gravety of them, but their rhetoric is pulling the Church apart. Anoither Bishop included Immigration, this is NOT an INTRINSIC EVIL. EVIL YES, but not one of urgency. These Bishops need to get their acts together. All of them.

ignatiusinsight.com/

Wednesday, October 08, 2008
IGNATIUS INSIGHT
The Five Non-Negotiables

Abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell experimentation, human cloning, and same-sex marriage have been called non-negotiable issues in certain Catholic circles. Why? Because they involve intrinsic evils that government can never legitimately authorize. They involve issues on which all Catholics are obliged, as Catholics, to agree. Most other concerns—even very important ones such as capital punishment or the Iraq war—are subjects about which Catholics can legitimately disagreeNot so with the five non-negotiable issues. On these issues there is such a thing as the CATHOLIC POSITIION, whether or not certain Catholics choose to embrace that position.

Cardinal Ratzinger made this point recently in connection with abortion and euthanasia on the one hand and capital punishment and war on the other. In his letter, “Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion,” he set out general principles regarding reception of the Eucharist by those who support abortion rights and euthanasia.

Ratzinger wrote, .“Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage way, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, COLOR=“purple”]but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.”

Given the nature of embryonic stem cell research and human cloning, the same absolute prohibition that applies to abortion and euthanasia applies to these things. Likewise,Catholic teaching requires an absolute opposition to same-sex marriage Catholics have an obligation to form their consciences according to the teaching of the Church. That teaching allows a wide range of conscientious judgments on a number of important, political issues. COLOR=“red”]Abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell experimentation, human cloning, and same-sex marriage are not among those issues.

On these subjects there is but a single legitimate “Catholic position.” When it comes to legal support for these issues, one can be Catholic or “prochoice,” but not Catholic and “prochoice.”

Teachings have changed very, very much since I was a child. Some are not held to be in alignment with Church teachings. If at anytime the doctors and Bishops disagree on an issue of great importance, I think it is up to us to get to the bottom of the issue. Right now I will take the clear writings of several Catholic priests and journalists who all say the same thing, not the muddled commentary of some men who are afraid to come out in a strong voice and support Mother Church…

INTRINSIC EVIL FIVE of them abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, cloning and homosexual marriage.

 

[elts1956]

What are the odds, one in a thousand, one in a hundred, one in one? From what I see, the odds do not seem favorable for some people.

Oh, but those flies will be protected.

 

[mapleoak]

WERE ALL THE ISSUES IN THIS ELECTION OF EQUAL WEIGHT?

Victim of Abortion- No chance to live.
Poverty- a chance to live even if destitute

Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
War - A chance to live

Victim of Abortion - No chance to live.
Environment - Can be changed

Victim of Abortion - No chance to live.
Economy - can be bettered.

Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.
Victim of Abortion - No Chance to live.

Victim of Abortion - Innocent human being murdered in the womb to the tune of +/- million per year in US.

Poverty - no innocent human being murdered.

War - no innocent human being murdered, though innocent lives may be lost indirectly, it is not the policy of just war to kill innocent human beings.

Environment - no innocent human being murdered.

Economy - no innocent human being murdered. It would be nice and cushy to buy cheap stuff, but not in exchange for innocent life.

Need I go on?

It is rather clear, indeed.

 

[mapleoak]

I still want to see authoritative teaching of these particular issues as being “five non-negotiables.” So far as I know, no imprimater has been given to any document which calls these particular issues “five non-negotiables.”

They are not an authoritive teaching, but a third party compilation and reduction of Church teaching. None the less, the aforementioned “issues” are indeed among the issues which no Catholic under pain of mortal sin may support. Care must be taken that Catholicism is not reduced to “five issues” but that we must adhere always to the “whole of Catholic doctrine”.

But of course the abortion holocaust is the primary issue in our society. Little else matters when a child is being legally killed roughly every 25 seconds.

Nothing else as a political issue even remotely approaches the wide scale and brutality against humanity as that of abortion.

 

[Gamera]

The “Holy” document written by the USCCB was a compromise statement. There were a few Bishops such a Martino of Scranton, I beleive who refused to sign it. And who can say he was any more wrong than a Bishop who states Immigration, or War are Intrinsic Evils. Perhaps your Bishop has stated differently. I would question him on it. It sounds as though some of these gentlemen have chosen their own pet projects, not to minimize the gravety of them, but their rhetoric is pulling the Church apart. Anoither Bishop included Immigration, this is NOT an INTRINSIC EVIL. EVIL YES, but not one of urgency. These Bishops need to get their acts together. All of them.

ignatiusinsight.com/

Wednesday, October 08, 2008
IGNATIUS INSIGHT
The Five Non-Negotiables

Abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell experimentation, human cloning, and same-sex marriage have been called non-negotiable issues in certain Catholic circles. Why? Because they involve intrinsic evils that government can never legitimately authorize. They involve issues on which all Catholics are obliged, as Catholics, to agree. Most other concerns—even very important ones such as capital punishment or the Iraq war—are subjects about which Catholics can legitimately disagreeNot so with the five non-negotiable issues. On these issues there is such a thing as the CATHOLIC POSITIION, whether or not certain Catholics choose to embrace that position.

Cardinal Ratzinger made this point recently in connection with abortion and euthanasia on the one hand and capital punishment and war on the other. In his letter, “Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion,” he set out general principles regarding reception of the Eucharist by those who support abortion rights and euthanasia.

Ratzinger wrote, .“Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage way, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, COLOR=“purple”]but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.”

Given the nature of embryonic stem cell research and human cloning, the same absolute prohibition that applies to abortion and euthanasia applies to these things. Likewise,Catholic teaching requires an absolute opposition to same-sex marriage Catholics have an obligation to form their consciences according to the teaching of the Church.

That teaching allows a wide range of conscientious judgments on a number of important, political issues. COLOR=“red”]Abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell experimentation, human cloning, and same-sex marriage are not among those issues.

On these subjects there is but a single legitimate “Catholic position.” When it comes to legal support for these issues, one can be Catholic or “prochoice,” but not Catholic and “prochoice.”

Teachings have changed very, very much since I was a child. Some are not held to be in alignment with Church teachings. If at anytime the doctors and Bishops disagree on an issue of great importance, I think it is up to us to get to the bottom of the issue. Right now I will take the clear writings of several Catholic priests and journalists who all say the same thing, not the muddled commentary of some men who are afraid to come out in a strong voice and support Mother Church…

INTRINSIC EVIL FIVE of them abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, cloning and homosexual marriage.

I don’t presume to tell the bishops what they “should have said.” The bishops list numerous issues for Catholic voters in the United States to consider and I considered them, obediently.

 

[Gamera]

They are not an authoritive teaching, but a third party compilation and reduction of Church teaching. None the less, the aforementioned “issues” are indeed among the issues which no Catholic under pain of mortal sin may support. Care must be taken that Catholicism is not reduced to “five issues” but that we must adhere always to the “whole of Catholic doctrine”.

Nothing else as a political issue even remotely approaches the wide scale and brutality against humanity as that of abortion.

THANK YOU! I am glad someone understands precisely what I am saying.