Were is Christ's humility in the Church today?

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deekod1967

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Our wonderful Catholic Church is probably the most gving of all institutions to the poor, eg Peter’s pence every year amounts to millions of donations to the poor alone.

Yet I really wonder why the Church does not sell all the land/works of art/shares etc etc that it really does not need to support and develop the body of Christ? I do not accept the view that the land/art were largely donations to the Church and the Church must safeguard their future out of respect to the donators, after all millions of human lives could be saved and/or converted by the proceeds of their sale - that is much more important in my view.

I live in a Diocese where retiring Priests are being bought £200,000 ($391,000) penthouse waterfront flats whilst the Parishes are being asked to raise £4 million ($7.8 million) for envagelisation, what is going on in our Church?

We have also learned of a senior local Monsignor recently retired who has been in a sexual relationship with a married woman for 18 years - he was found out by the Press and the Bishop stripped him from holding Mass. He is now living with a woman in a £300,000 house, yet continues to have access to £200,000 penthouse suite. Another Priest I know has recently bought a £10,000 kitchen - all the time there are good Catholic old people struggling to heat their homes.

All this is really shaking my Faith in my Church at both local and global levels, I write this post in the hope of someone being able to renew my shaken Faith.

I know these are the acts of proud men not God, but where is Christ’s humility in the Church today?

I believe Lord - help my unbelief!

Derek
 
deekod1967 said:
Our wonderful Catholic Church is probably the most gving of all institutions to the poor, eg Peter’s pence every year amounts to millions of donations to the poor alone.

Yet I really wonder why the Church does not sell all the land/works of art/shares etc etc that it really does not need to support and develop the body of Christ? I do not accept the view that the land/art were largely donations to the Church and the Church must safeguard their future out of respect to the donators, after all millions of human lives could be saved and/or converted by the proceeds of their sale - that is much more important in my view.

I live in a Diocese where retiring Priests are being bought £200,000 ($391,000) penthouse waterfront flats whilst the Parishes are being asked to raise £4 million ($7.8 million) for envagelisation, what is going on in our Church?

We have also learned of a senior local Monsignor recently retired who has been in a sexual relationship with a married woman for 18 years - he was found out by the Press and the Bishop stripped him from holding Mass. He is now living with a woman in a £300,000 house, yet continues to have access to £200,000 penthouse suite. Another Priest I know has recently bought a £10,000 kitchen - all the time there are good Catholic old people struggling to heat their homes.

All this is really shaking my Faith in my Church at both local and global levels, I write this post in the hope of someone being able to renew my shaken Faith.

I know these are the acts of proud men not God, but where is Christ’s humility in the Church today?

I believe Lord - help my unbelief!

Derek
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What is the exchange rate for the pound sterling vs. the dollar. Those numbers do not surprise me.

But if you want a person one can really revile… at a look at Benny Hinn or Creflo Dollar.
 
ribozyme said:
What is the exchange rate for the pound sterling vs. the dollar. Those numbers do not surprise me.

But if you want a person one can really revile… at a look at Benny Hinn or Creflo Dollar.
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Yep - there are worst people out there, but they dont have access to the Sacraments like we do, and it doesnt explain why the Church lacks humility.

BTW - I used XE.com for £/$ conversion - £1 = $1.96
 
well I live in a diocese where a retired priest, if there is room for him, can have a spacious 10x12 bedroom in a nursing home on the grounds of the diocesan pastoral center, with a view of the basilica on one side, and of a brick wall of the bishop’s office on the other. the expense will be deducted from his social security check, and medicare will cover some, not all, of his medical bills. Should he seek a better retirement “lifestyle” he can, at his own expense purchase a mobile home in one of the retirement parks, with Winter Texans and other retirees, or surrender his life savings to enter an assisted living complex, and turn over his social security check to the owners each month.

If anyone feels this somehow prevents said priest from living in the humility of Christ, he does not know the retired priests of this diocese, who for the most part continue serving parishes, the diocese, and individuals until they literally drop dead in their tracks.
 
I do not accept the view that the land/art were largely donations to the Church and the Church must safeguard their future out of respect to the donators, after all millions of human lives could be saved and/or converted by the proceeds of their sale - that is much more important in my view.
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Not accepting a view does not make it invalid. It just makes it another opinion. And we all know what opinions are like…
 
I don’t agree that it would be more fitting to sell family heirlooms in order to help the poor. From my perspective, this sounds nothing more than the same criticism Judas gave to Mary for using very costly perfume to anoint the feet of Jesus. (cf. John 13:3ff). Could this have been sold and given to the poor? Sure. But it was more fitting to use it instead for the glory of God. We will always have the poor with us. We can surely help the poor without selling priceless family heirlooms gifted to the Church for the glory of God.

For instance, I have a Rosary from my great grandfather. I could sell it and give the money to charity. However, while that Rosary is priceless to me, the resources it would provide would be expended in moments. If it is the poor that I want to help, I should instead work to aid the poor by more lasting efforts.

As for help with your faith. I recommend you ask God for help with that.
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
I don’t agree that it would be more fitting to sell family heirlooms in order to help the poor. From my perspective, this sounds nothing more than the same criticism Judas gave to Mary for using very costly perfume to anoint the feet of Jesus. (cf. John 13:3ff). Could this have been sold and given to the poor? Sure. But it was more fitting to use it instead for the glory of God. We will always have the poor with us. We can help them without selling priceless family heirlooms.

As for help with your faith. I recommend you ask God for help with that.
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JPII made this very point in one of his encyclicals.
 
Why do people always attack the church for the actions of a few faithless priests? Many members of the Universal Church lack a strong faith and bring scandal to the rest of us. Yet if you look on a Global basis you will find no other organization as wide reaching in so many places doing so much good. Look in war torn countries and you find that while the red cross or protestant organizations pull out when the going gets tough or things become unsafe, the Catholic organizations usually stay and continue their work. There are many sinners in the church. But there are many good people doing genuine good.
 
One thing to also consider: the right to private property is subordinated to the right to common use, to the fact that goods are meant for everyone. (Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, 177; cf. John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Laborem Exercens, 14: AAS 73 (1981), 613). This is especially true of the “heirlooms” of the Catholic Church. The Church is a steward of these heirlooms, and as stewards the Church ought to decide the most fitting manner in which these can be used to the benefit of the common good. Does selling them for provisional benefit of a few citizens serve the common good? Perhaps, but not necessarily.

For example, the US Federal Government owns a lot of property in my home state of Idaho–64% of the state in fact. Why? It is good to preserve national parks, rivers, lakes, forests, and land for future generations to enjoy. Should it sell the land so as to give provisional benefit to a chosen few, or should it keep the land and attempt to be a just steward of it for the benefit of all citizenry, to include future citizenry?

Once possessions are sold, the stewardship role transfers to another who may not seek to serve the “common good” of all citizenry, but have more selfish motives.
 
Something I’d like to add…

I’ve been to the Vatican before and when my sister saw the works of art there, she just stared and marvelled at these works. Shortly after, I was able to persuade her to go to confession, something that she hasn’t done in years. The works of art there are wonderful and can truly elevate someone’s consciousness into contemplating the eternal beauty and mystery of God. I’ve also heard an anecdote about an atheist who felt compelled to…well…kneel before something (in his words) after his visit to the Vatican.

I think those artworks (with the help of God’s Grace) will do far more good at the Vatican than merely selling them.
 
Our parish priest is living in the convent.
The run down apartments, on the bad side of town, were recently sold to cover the abuse claims.
The convent looks worse then the apartments the priest lived in. It was built in 1955, and has been empty for some time now.
 
OP, I have no knowledge of your particular diocese so I can’t comment on how said retirement perks came to be.

I know in my area, it is common for people to grumble at what nice cars so many priests drive. The grumblers rarely realize that the cars are usually gifts or extreme discounts given by car dealer parishioners (usually on demonstrator models loaded and with a few miles on them). Things like this happen all the time when God touches the heart of wealthy people through the ministry of a priest. It IS a tricky issue and a temptation to the priests to get spoiled. On the other hand, it isn’t very pastoral to respond to a generous gift by turning around and selling it the next day.
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
Scott, Do you remember the name of the text?
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Found it: ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA****vatican.va/holy_father/special_features/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_20030417_ecclesia_eucharistia_en.html

Chapter 5:
  1. Reading the account of the institution of the Eucharist in the Synoptic Gospels, we are struck by the simplicity and the “solemnity” with which Jesus, on the evening of the Last Supper, instituted this great sacrament. There is an episode which in some way serves as its prelude: the anointing at Bethany. A woman, whom John identifies as Mary the sister of Lazarus, pours a flask of* costly ointment over Jesus’ head, which provokes from the disciples – and from Judas in particular (cf. Mt 26:8; Mk 14:4; Jn 12:4) – an indignant response, as if this act, in light of the needs of the poor, represented an intolerable “waste”. But Jesus’ own reaction is completely different. While in no way detracting from the duty of charity towards the needy, for whom the disciples must always show special care – “the poor you will always have with you” (Mt 26, 11; Mk 14:7; cf. Jn* 12:8) – he looks towards his imminent death and burial, and sees this act of anointing as an anticipation of the honour which his body will continue to merit even after his death, indissolubly bound as it is to the mystery of his person.
The account continues, in the Synoptic Gospels, with Jesus’ charge to the disciples to* prepare carefully the *“large upper room” needed for the Passover meal (cf. Mk 14:15; Lk 22:12) and with the narration of the institution of the Eucharist. Reflecting at least in part the Jewish rites of the Passover meal leading up to the singing of the Hallel (cf. Mt 26:30; Mk 14:26), the story presents with sobriety and solemnity, even in the variants of the different traditions, the words spoken by Christ over the bread and wine, which he made into concrete expressions of the handing over of his body and the shedding of his blood. All these details are recorded by the Evangelists in the light of a praxis of the “breaking of the bread” already well-established in the early Church. But certainly from the time of Jesus on, the event of Holy Thursday has shown visible traces of a liturgical “sensibility” shaped by Old Testament tradition and open to being reshaped in Christian celebrations in a way consonant with the new content of Easter.

48. Like the woman who anointed Jesus in Bethany, the Church has feared no “extravagance”, devoting the best of her resources to expressing her wonder and adoration before the unsurpassable gift of the Eucharist.** No less than the first disciples charged with preparing the “large upper room”, she has felt the need, down the centuries and in her encounters with different cultures, to celebrate the Eucharist in a setting worthy of so great a mystery.
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Have you considered posing your question to your Bishop? If you’re wondering, then you are not alone. If nothing else, it will alert him that he needs to deal with the perception out there.
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
Thanks Scott. I had seen it before but for the life of me couldn’t remember where. 👍
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Itsjustdave, if you look into the face and eyes of Benedict XVI you will see the humility of Christ. You arre alooking in thge wrong places. You are alooking at the “judases”
GraceAngel
 
Read in the Old Testament how God instructed the Jewish people to decorate his temple. It sounds opulent with gold, stones and fine workmanship. I would imagine that there were poor Jewish people alive at the time, why didn’t God instruct people to give all that extra income to the poor?

Yet, just because the Jewish people had a beautiful temple doesn’t mean that God didn’t instruct them to care for the poor. It isn’t an either or situation. You can give your best artwork to God and still care for the poor among us.
 
the Nazarene had a treasurer amongst his apostles. his name----------judas. that, says it all. that betrayal symbolizes everything that is wrong with our beloved church.

truth being, had judas asked the Nazarene for forgiveness, instead of taking his own life, it would have been granted. that, is our lesson to learn.

love our church. love our priests. and if need be, forgive our priests.
 
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