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irom
Guest
What’s church interpretation of Magis, where they real or symbolic ?
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bmullins
Guest
They were real. Though the actual number of people involved in the procession were likely much greater than 3 (though there were possibly 3 leaders/kings/magi).
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
Of course they were real! They are described in at least 2 of the Gospels, and may have had ties to Israel because they were able to recognize Jesus’ star when they saw it. They knew what it meant, they knew it was related to the Jewish people, and they knew it was for a King.
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prodigalson2011
Guest
You NEED to watch the documentary, The Star of Bethlehem. Along with any one else who hasn’t! I think you will be amazed. I, and many others (some in the audience of the film, even), was moved to tears by the end. It’s no crackpot theory; it’s even got backing from several NASA scientists. In addition to affirming your faith in a way you might not even think possible, it will clear up any question of whether the Magi were real, and you may be surprised at who they quite possibly were! Also, if you rent or buy the DVD (I suggest buying, because you’ll likely want to watch it over and over and show it to everyone you know) be sure to watch the short feature, “Revealing the Ram.” It’s amazing and awe inspiring. Promise. 
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irom
Guest
Revealing the Ram DVD ? Where I can buy it ?You NEED to watch the documentary, The Star of Bethlehem. Along with any one else who hasn’t! I think you will be amazed. I, and many others (some in the audience of the film, even), was moved to tears by the end. It’s no crackpot theory; it’s even got backing from several NASA scientists. In addition to affirming your faith in a way you might not even think possible, it will clear up any question of whether the Magi were real, and you may be surprised at who they quite possibly were! Also, if you rent or buy the DVD (I suggest buying, because you’ll likely want to watch it over and over and show it to everyone you know) be sure to watch the short feature, “Revealing the Ram.” It’s amazing and awe inspiring. Promise.
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FightingFat
Guest
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Barbkw
Guest
They’re real. They were probably devout Babylonian priest / astronomers. They observed the stars as indicators of major shifts in history. I’ve read & heard that they were Zoroastrians who were heavily influenced by Daniel. I’ve also heard that they were Jewish astronomers from Babylon, who did keep their focus on the coming of the Messiah.
If you haven’t already, go to the Bethlehem Star website and read the available pages there. It’s best to be able to see the DVD movie, EWTN shows it 3 or 4 times over Christmas.
bethlehemstar.net/
If you haven’t already, go to the Bethlehem Star website and read the available pages there. It’s best to be able to see the DVD movie, EWTN shows it 3 or 4 times over Christmas.
bethlehemstar.net/
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
That’s a wonderful video, I was going to recommend it!
The Magi saw and understood the star, Herod didn’t see what they saw, so they did have some experience with what the prophecies of Israel were. When they told Herod what they had seen, he was “greatly troubled,” so it was obvious he had no clue what the stars were saying.
The Magi saw and understood the star, Herod didn’t see what they saw, so they did have some experience with what the prophecies of Israel were. When they told Herod what they had seen, he was “greatly troubled,” so it was obvious he had no clue what the stars were saying.
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prodigalson2011
Guest
“Revealing the Ram” is a short “deleted scene/bonus feature” on the “Star of Bethlehem” DVD. You can buy it at www.bethlehemstar.net, or on Amazon. If you have a little money to spare, the official site sells it in bundles, which I might be doing soon.
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A_G
Guest
Yes they were real and they are in the Bible. We don’t know the exact number of them, but since there are 3 gifts recorded (gold, frankincense and myrrh), tradition leads to “3 Kings” although there could have been more. They came from “the east” (possibly Babylonia, Persia or Yemen).
The three are known as Melchior, Caspar (or Gaspar), and Balthazar. Tradition also holds that they were baptised by St. Thomas the Apostle later on in life, as he was making his way east into India.
Their bones are said to be located at the “Shrine of the Three Kings” located in Cologne, Germany.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
The three are known as Melchior, Caspar (or Gaspar), and Balthazar. Tradition also holds that they were baptised by St. Thomas the Apostle later on in life, as he was making his way east into India.
Their bones are said to be located at the “Shrine of the Three Kings” located in Cologne, Germany.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Khalid
Guest
They were real, literal people, not myth or symbol. (Just like Moses isn’t a myth, and the first chapter of Genesis isn’t.) They were probably Persian Zoroastrians, or “Magians”, as they were sometimes called: magi is a term used since ancient times to call the name of the followers of Zoroaster, and later, by association, astrology (as the Greeks associated Zoroastrianism with astrology, much as the Renaissance associated “the Orient” or “China” with wisdom), and then, later, by expanded association, “magician”, “sorcerer”, and even “natural philosopher” (a term for scientists before the Scientific Revolution), which was often equated with divination and sorcery.
No person mentioned in the Bible is mythological, unless it is expressly stated that he is (and then they are not usually mythical, such as characters in Jesus’ parables, but symbolical). If the Bible says, “Such and such lived”, such and such was a person, just as your mother or father or Abu Bakr and Aisha (or, in America, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson) were.
No person mentioned in the Bible is mythological, unless it is expressly stated that he is (and then they are not usually mythical, such as characters in Jesus’ parables, but symbolical). If the Bible says, “Such and such lived”, such and such was a person, just as your mother or father or Abu Bakr and Aisha (or, in America, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson) were.
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Pete_Holter
Guest
Greetings in the Lord Jesus!
Here are some thoughts I’ve collected from our current senior pastor…
In keeping with the historical setting of Luke’s Gospel, Pope Benedict notes that Jesus was conceived in Nazareth (cf. May 14, 2009). He considers the probable curiosity and excitement of the shepherds upon hearing the message spoken by the angel (cf. December 24, 2009). And “[e]nveloped by the holy cloud, they heard the angels’ song of praise” (December 25, 2008). He surmises that “the Wise Men were astronomers” who “had noticed the appearance of a new star and had interpreted this celestial phenomenon as the announcement of the birth of a king” (January 6, 2009). “Once again heaven and earth, the cosmos and history, call to each other and respond. The ancient prophecies find confirmation in the language of the stars” (January 6, 2008). “There is no doubt that [the Magi] were persuaded by the sign of the star that they had seen” (January 6, 2007), that Jesus is King! But “Herod made it clear that he was effectively the one in power forcing the Holy Family to flee to Egypt and offering proof of his cruelty by the massacre of the innocents” (January 6, 2010).
Most recently, Pope Benedict wrote that the “wise men from the East” were “the first Gentiles to find the pathway to Christ.” He then asked, “What kind of people were they?”
“The experts tell us that they belonged to the great astronomical tradition that had developed in Mesopotamia over the centuries and continued to flourish. But this information of itself is not enough. No doubt there were many astronomers in ancient Babylon, but only these few set off to follow the star that they recognized as the star of the promise, pointing them along the path towards the true King and Saviour. They were, as we might say, men of science, but not simply in the sense that they were searching for a wide range of knowledge: they wanted something more. They wanted to understand what being human is all about. They had doubtless heard of the prophecy of the Gentile prophet Balaam: ‘A star shall come forth out of Jacob and a sceptre shall rise out of Israel’ (Num 24:17). They explored this promise. They were men with restless hearts, not satisfied with the superficial and the ordinary. They were men in search of the promise, in search of God. And they were watchful men, capable of reading God’s signs, his soft and penetrating language. But they were also courageous, yet humble: we can imagine them having to endure a certain amount of mockery for setting off to find the King of the Jews, at the cost of so much effort. For them it mattered little what this or that person, what even influential and clever people thought and said about them. For them it was a question of truth itself, not human opinion. Hence they took upon themselves the sacrifices and the effort of a long and uncertain journey. Their humble courage was what enabled them to bend down before the child of poor people and to recognize in him the promised King, the one they had set out, on both their outward and their inward journey, to seek and to know.
“…]
“The wise men followed the star. Through the language of creation, they discovered the God of history. To be sure – the language of creation alone is not enough. Only God’s word, which we encounter in sacred Scripture, was able to mark out their path definitively. Creation and Scripture, reason and faith, must come together, so as to lead us forward to the living God. There has been much discussion over what kind of star it was that the wise men were following. Some suggest a planetary constellation, or a supernova, that is to say one of those stars that is initially quite weak, in which an inner explosion releases a brilliant light for a certain time, or a comet, etc. This debate we may leave to the experts. The great star, the true supernova that leads us on, is Christ himself. He is as it were the explosion of God’s love, which causes the great white light of his heart to shine upon the world. And we may add: the wise men from the East, who feature in today’s Gospel, like all the saints, have themselves gradually become constellations of God that mark out the path” (January 6, 2012).
You will also find the Magi being mentioned in the Catechism in Paragraphs 486, 525, 528, and 725.
No, I am not worthy…
In Christ,
Pete
Here are some thoughts I’ve collected from our current senior pastor…
In keeping with the historical setting of Luke’s Gospel, Pope Benedict notes that Jesus was conceived in Nazareth (cf. May 14, 2009). He considers the probable curiosity and excitement of the shepherds upon hearing the message spoken by the angel (cf. December 24, 2009). And “[e]nveloped by the holy cloud, they heard the angels’ song of praise” (December 25, 2008). He surmises that “the Wise Men were astronomers” who “had noticed the appearance of a new star and had interpreted this celestial phenomenon as the announcement of the birth of a king” (January 6, 2009). “Once again heaven and earth, the cosmos and history, call to each other and respond. The ancient prophecies find confirmation in the language of the stars” (January 6, 2008). “There is no doubt that [the Magi] were persuaded by the sign of the star that they had seen” (January 6, 2007), that Jesus is King! But “Herod made it clear that he was effectively the one in power forcing the Holy Family to flee to Egypt and offering proof of his cruelty by the massacre of the innocents” (January 6, 2010).
Most recently, Pope Benedict wrote that the “wise men from the East” were “the first Gentiles to find the pathway to Christ.” He then asked, “What kind of people were they?”
“The experts tell us that they belonged to the great astronomical tradition that had developed in Mesopotamia over the centuries and continued to flourish. But this information of itself is not enough. No doubt there were many astronomers in ancient Babylon, but only these few set off to follow the star that they recognized as the star of the promise, pointing them along the path towards the true King and Saviour. They were, as we might say, men of science, but not simply in the sense that they were searching for a wide range of knowledge: they wanted something more. They wanted to understand what being human is all about. They had doubtless heard of the prophecy of the Gentile prophet Balaam: ‘A star shall come forth out of Jacob and a sceptre shall rise out of Israel’ (Num 24:17). They explored this promise. They were men with restless hearts, not satisfied with the superficial and the ordinary. They were men in search of the promise, in search of God. And they were watchful men, capable of reading God’s signs, his soft and penetrating language. But they were also courageous, yet humble: we can imagine them having to endure a certain amount of mockery for setting off to find the King of the Jews, at the cost of so much effort. For them it mattered little what this or that person, what even influential and clever people thought and said about them. For them it was a question of truth itself, not human opinion. Hence they took upon themselves the sacrifices and the effort of a long and uncertain journey. Their humble courage was what enabled them to bend down before the child of poor people and to recognize in him the promised King, the one they had set out, on both their outward and their inward journey, to seek and to know.
“…]
“The wise men followed the star. Through the language of creation, they discovered the God of history. To be sure – the language of creation alone is not enough. Only God’s word, which we encounter in sacred Scripture, was able to mark out their path definitively. Creation and Scripture, reason and faith, must come together, so as to lead us forward to the living God. There has been much discussion over what kind of star it was that the wise men were following. Some suggest a planetary constellation, or a supernova, that is to say one of those stars that is initially quite weak, in which an inner explosion releases a brilliant light for a certain time, or a comet, etc. This debate we may leave to the experts. The great star, the true supernova that leads us on, is Christ himself. He is as it were the explosion of God’s love, which causes the great white light of his heart to shine upon the world. And we may add: the wise men from the East, who feature in today’s Gospel, like all the saints, have themselves gradually become constellations of God that mark out the path” (January 6, 2012).
You will also find the Magi being mentioned in the Catechism in Paragraphs 486, 525, 528, and 725.
No, I am not worthy…
In Christ,
Pete
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Pete_Holter
Guest
Hey everyone!
I just finished listening to a great talk on Matthew 2 that I thought you all might like: Who Were the Magi?: Curtis Mitch on the Epiphany. The Sacred Page is my favorite “Bible Blog” in case you want to bookmark it.
Welcome to the Body of Christ, Khalid!
In Christ,
Pete
I just finished listening to a great talk on Matthew 2 that I thought you all might like: Who Were the Magi?: Curtis Mitch on the Epiphany. The Sacred Page is my favorite “Bible Blog” in case you want to bookmark it.
Welcome to the Body of Christ, Khalid!
In Christ,
Pete
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puzzleannie
Guest
Matthew’s gospel describes them and their actions, we know historically who magis were, so unless there is some reason to prove otherwise, we assume this was a true story. As with all such stories there are other meanings and implications beyond the literal facts of the story, such as their symbolizing the gentiles, for instance.
another video I saw this season is the Census and the Star, shorter only 30 minutes, from an Evangelical not Catholic source, but gave very good rebuttal, bible based to the idea that either the Census or the visit of the Magi did not really happen as told in the Gospels.
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Zenkai
Guest
They were definitely real.
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Mintaka
Guest
What do you mean, “were real”? There are still plenty of Zoroastrian priests in the world. They don’t call themselves Magi these days, but that’s what they used to be called and that’s what they are.
Let’s not make this overly complicated. If the Bible says there were shepherds, you don’t go around saying, “Oh, maybe they were really performance artists and garbagemen.” You think, “Oh, there were herders of sheep.”
And yes, Zoroastrians were and are monotheists in their own way, so not technically pagans; but they were Gentiles, and they weren’t as fully informed as the Jews. They originally came from the Persian Empire, which was the great rival empire to the Romans, and their religion was fairly old. So it was like people from the Soviet Union coming to America, or people from Napoleonic France coming to the UK.
Here is a Roman picture of the Magi, wearing Persian hats and Persian horseriding pants.
Btw, during the early days of Christianity when the Roman Empire persecuted it, the Persian Emperors liked to tweak Rome’s nose by encouraging Christians to come to live in Persia, where they would be safe and their rights respected.
Let’s not make this overly complicated. If the Bible says there were shepherds, you don’t go around saying, “Oh, maybe they were really performance artists and garbagemen.” You think, “Oh, there were herders of sheep.”
And yes, Zoroastrians were and are monotheists in their own way, so not technically pagans; but they were Gentiles, and they weren’t as fully informed as the Jews. They originally came from the Persian Empire, which was the great rival empire to the Romans, and their religion was fairly old. So it was like people from the Soviet Union coming to America, or people from Napoleonic France coming to the UK.
Here is a Roman picture of the Magi, wearing Persian hats and Persian horseriding pants.
Btw, during the early days of Christianity when the Roman Empire persecuted it, the Persian Emperors liked to tweak Rome’s nose by encouraging Christians to come to live in Persia, where they would be safe and their rights respected.
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