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coleraine
Guest
were the crusades justified? i dont know…it just seems like all we did was start a war, kill some musilms, and lose…i mean it seems like we murderd muslims. i would not have made that decison thats for sure…
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Caesar
Guest
Well, we defended Europe from a Muslim invasion (they had come up into Spain and even southern France, and from the either side to the gates of Vienna). The Crusades were completely justified in their intent.
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coleraine
Guest
yah i totally agree the intend was justified, but like so many other military actions…it just seems as though things went wrong.
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Caesar
Guest
The western world stayed out of Muslim hands for over 500 years, didnt it?
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puzzleannie
Guest
absolutely right, the Europeans should have allowed the various Islamic powers to overrun Europe. What were we thinking? and who is this “we?” I was not alive then, were you?
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coleraine
Guest
look all im saying is that it did help, it protected europe, but there are ALWAYS little flaws in any plan.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Well, look at it this way. We are NOT guaranteed that every individual Christian’s action is going to be 100% perfect. So yes, there are always ‘flaws in the plan’. Every one of us is going to be involved, sometimes alone, and sometimes with others, in things which are going to have bad consequences as well as good–some foreseen and others unforeseen.
But the point is, hindsight is always 20/20. The people living then were NOT living the lives we live now. While morality is absolute, what we might call ‘unjustified killing’ if it happened today might have been justified 500 years ago–or 500 years FROM now, depending on circumstances.
If l lived in a society where I had only two choices in a given situation–defend myself with a physical attack/defense against another or die for certain–I could morally defend myself. But if I lived in a society where in ADDITION to those choices there were options for legal redress, for relocation, for abitration, etc., then choosing to go immediately for physical attack might NOT be a good moral ‘first’ defense. Today WE have in the U.S. for the most part several options–it is very hard for us to picture the first scenario because it isn’t OUR experience.
But the point is, hindsight is always 20/20. The people living then were NOT living the lives we live now. While morality is absolute, what we might call ‘unjustified killing’ if it happened today might have been justified 500 years ago–or 500 years FROM now, depending on circumstances.
If l lived in a society where I had only two choices in a given situation–defend myself with a physical attack/defense against another or die for certain–I could morally defend myself. But if I lived in a society where in ADDITION to those choices there were options for legal redress, for relocation, for abitration, etc., then choosing to go immediately for physical attack might NOT be a good moral ‘first’ defense. Today WE have in the U.S. for the most part several options–it is very hard for us to picture the first scenario because it isn’t OUR experience.
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jsk
Guest
This is a question I would refer to “Ask an apologist”, they would have better resources to give you an authoritative answer.
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John_Higgins
Guest
Were the Crusades justified?
Some were, some weren’t.
John
Some were, some weren’t.
John
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not_a_theist
Guest
No.
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puzzleannie
Guest
no that is not what you said in OP. what you did was betray complete ignorance of European history, I suggest getting on amazon and purchasing a really good book on the topic before offering an opinion.look all im saying is that it did help, it protected europe, but there are ALWAYS little flaws in any plan.
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estesbob
Guest
Of course they were.
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Fidelis
Guest
Prepare to be edjumacated:
catholiceducation.org/links/search.cgi?query=crusades
After you’ve read at least a couple of these you can at least have a somewhat more informed perspective.
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Brendan
Guest
Actually, the West was asked by the Byzantine Empire to assist them in repelling Muslim invaders.
Remember that all of what is now Turkey was Christian and part of Greece. The Turks were eastern nomads that invaded Asia Minor.
Likewise North Africa, which was also Christian ( St. Augustine was the Bishop of Hippo, in what is now Libya, who do you think is bishop there now)
Egypt was populated by an ethnic people know as Copts, they too were\are Christian, but were decimated by Muslim Arab invaders and are now a small minority in their own country.
Why do you think it was a bad thing to try and repel those invaders?
The Crusades, in their intent and goal, were no more evil that the D-Day invasion to repel the German invaders of France.
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Donald45
Guest
Here are two very helpful articles by the well-known crusades scholar Thomas Madden:
crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/print2005/tmadden_crusades_print.html
Blessings,
Don
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crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/print2005/tmadden_crusades_print.html
Blessings,
Don
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Randy_Carson
Guest
THE CRUSADES 101
by James Akin
catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Dossier/2002-02/article3.html
Crusade Myths
By Thomas F. Madden
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/tmadden_crusademyths_feb05.asp
Hope this helps. :tiphat:
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Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
So you like the idea of Western Civilization being eventualling conquered by resurgent jihad?
Some MYTHS I think you are suffering under
- The Crusades were just a proto-imperialist colonialism
- The Crusades were an attempt to forcibly convert non-Christians and massacre those who didnt convert
- The streets of Jerusalem ran ankle (or knee) deep in blood when taken during the First Crusade
- The Crusades were a “bleed-off” of 2nd, and later European noble sons who had no money or land of their own
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Teflon93
Guest
Read Hillaire Belloc’s “The Crusades”. It’s short and will help you overcome the obvious gaps in historical perspective today’s politically-correct educators have instilled in you to your detriment.
The short answer is “Yes”, in that the Crusades were a belated Christian response to centuries of relentless Muslim attacks. Look at a religious map of the Mediterranean world in the 11th and 15th centuries and you’ll see what I mean.
The short answer is “Yes”, in that the Crusades were a belated Christian response to centuries of relentless Muslim attacks. Look at a religious map of the Mediterranean world in the 11th and 15th centuries and you’ll see what I mean.
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coleraine
Guest
dude chill out. you tell me your side of the story,and i realize i was somewhat wrong. so thats the way i decide to swing from here on.
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Montalban
Guest
That would be depending on their intent. If they were about an attempt to extend Catholic power then they worked for only a short while
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