Were the NT churches independent or One?

[crazzeto]

Where are these priests in the new testament? Who said bishops are priests? When did Christ establish a priesthood in the new covenant with a victim and sacrifices? Evidence please!!!

Your teachings are old testament crazetto.

First let me address the bolded bit:

2nd Timothy 3:16
drbo.org/chapter/62003.htm

15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice,

The sciptures Timothy has known from his infancy, i.e. the old Testament specifically are " inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice,". So that is just a rather disingenuous argument, per Paul to reject the OT is to reject the inspired word of God.

Now to address the second, more direct error you made… Suggesting what I post is “old testament thinking”:

1 1 Timothy 3

1 A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 1 Timothy 3

2 It behoveth therefore a bishop to be blameless, the husband of one wife, sober, prudent, of good behaviour, chaste, given to hospitality, a teacher,

3 Titus 1

7 For a bishop must be without crime, as the steward of God: not proud, not subject to anger, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre:

4 1 Peter 2

25 For you were as sheep going astray; but you are now converted to the shepherd and bishop of your souls.

Old Testament??? Really???!!

 

[JRKH]

The Church, from the ealy days, met in council to discuss and determine doctrine.

Who called these councils into being?

In this I am not just refering to Ecumenical councils, but also regional councils such as the North africal councils.

Peace
James

 

[JustaServant]

The Reformation was supposed to be a ‘reform’ - but to what? They totally re-invented themselves based on novel interpretations of the Bible. What gives a group the right to start over from scratch? Reading those who were ordained by the apostles - 2nd and 3rd generation removed, we see a liturgical, sacramental and hierarchical Church. If this is an aberration, how did so many godly men (remember, they were mostly martyrs and great Saints) corrupt all in the same direction over various parts of the world?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Getting back to the OP…

Were the NT churches independent or One ??

We have seen in this thread that many people deny that the successors of Peter and the Apostles had Apostolic Authority because they believe that the idea of “Apostolic Succession” is not found in the Bible. Is this really true?

To the contrary, the Bible contains clear evidence that the Apostle Paul taught Apostolic Succession to his disciples and fellow workers, Timothy, Titus and Clement. Here are the relevant passages:
2 Timothy 2:1-2
You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.
In the passage above, there are four generations of believers contained in this one passage: 1. Paul himself, 2. Timothy, who was Paul’s disciple, 3. Those whom Timothy would disciple, and 4. Those to whom Timothy’s disciples would preach. Paul commanded Timothy to hand on the gospel to reliable men and further to ensure that those men would also hand on the gospel reliably.
Titus 1:5
The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.
In the passage above, we see that Paul was concerned with the appointing of capable leaders in the Cretan church. So in addition to his concern for the content of the message, he is concerned with the succession of the leadership, as well.
Philippians 4:3
Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
In the Letter to the Philippians, Paul mentions one of his fellow workers, Clement, who was ordained by the Apostle Peter and later became the fourth Bishop of Rome (after Peter, Linus, and Anacletus). Clement wrote his own Letter to the Corinthians, and in that letter, he stated:
“Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” (*Letter to the Corinthians *42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]).

“We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them, or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole church, and who have blamelessly served the flock of Christ, in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. (ibid.)
From these two passages, we can see that Clement had 1) witnessed his mentors, the Apostles Peter and Paul, naming men to the office of Bishop and 2) received instructions from them that other men should succeed those Bishops appointed by the Apostles in the event that these first Bishops should die. Thus, history records that both the Apostles and their disciples such as Clement, Timothy and Titus understood and followed the practice of appointing successors to the Apostles.

While many seem to believe that anyone with a Bible may become a “pastor” by simply gathering around himself a group of fellow believers to form a church, the Bible itself teaches that true leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ must be ordained by those who were ordained before them. This process, known as Apostolic Succession, maintains an unbroken chain of continuity from Jesus, Peter and the Apostles to the leaders of the early Church.

(cont.)

 

[Randy_Carson]

The writings of other members of the early Church supports the idea of Apostolic Succession. For example, the Apostle John discipled a man known today as Polycarp of Smyrna. Polycarp, in turn, discipled a man known as Irenaeus of Lyons. Irenaeus recorded the names of the leaders of the early church beginning with Peter down to his own day; thus, we have the following from a second-century (pre-Constantinian) Christian with impeccable credentials:
“3The blessed Apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the Church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the Epistle to Timothy. To him succeeded Anencletus; and after him, in the third place from the Apostles, Clement was chosen from the episcopate. He had seen the blessed Apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that He still heard the echoes of the preaching of the Apostles, and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the Apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the Church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded; and Alexander succeeded Evaristus. Then, sixth after the Apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telesphorus, who also was gloriously martyred. Then Hyginus; after him, Pius; and after him, Anicetus. Soter succeeded Anicetus, and now, in the twelfth place after the Apostles, the lot of the episcopate has fallen to Eleutherus. In this order, and by the teaching of the Apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us.” (Against Heresies 3.3.3, [A.D. 180])
In this passage, Irenaeus traces the succession of the early Christian Church leaders from Peter down to Eleutherus in his own day—a span of 120 years. Using other historical records, we can continue to trace the leadership of that same Church from Eleutherus all the way down to Pope Benedict XVI today.

The existence and leadership of this Church is well-documented and unassailable historical fact. The connection between the modern Catholic Church and the pre-Constantinian Church of Peter, James and John is undeniable.

These early eyewitness accounts together with the testimony of Sacred Scripture prove the doctrine of Apostolic Succession and the existence of the Catholic Church prior to Constantine, and they drive a stake through the heart of any argument that the NT churches were independent and not actually local congregations of the One Church led by the Bishop of Rome.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Reformation was supposed to be a ‘reform’ - but to what? They totally re-invented themselves based on novel interpretations of the Bible. What gives a group the right to start over from scratch? Reading those who were ordained by the apostles - 2nd and 3rd generation removed, we see a liturgical, sacramental and hierarchical Church. If this is an aberration, how did so many godly men (remember, they were mostly martyrs and great Saints) corrupt all in the same direction over various parts of the world?

i think i can say that is like someone moving out the house and build a whole new one and spread to others that they reformed the old one.

O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine