Westboro Baptist Church Lawsuit

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George_Waters

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I am not sure if this is the most appropriate place to post this so I will trust the judgment of our moderators if they feel another area would be more appropriate.

Living in Topeka, Kansas I have been asked about Westboro Baptist Church a lot and thought many of you would appreciate the information shared at this website: matthewsnyder.org/index.html

“The family of Lance Corporal Matthew Snyder, US Marine Corps, has begun this civil lawsuit* against Mr. Phelps and certain members of the so-called Westboro Baptist Church to bring an end to the reign of terror and abuse that they inflicted upon the grieving families of US service members killed in defense of our nation. Using innocent children to deliver their twisted message of hatred and fear, the defendants in this suit have sought to attack the memory of our departed heroes, to strip their loved ones of their dignity, and to use abuse and intimidation as a tool for preventing surviving family members from reaching closure over their loss.”

God Bless Lcpl. Snyder and his family, Semper Fi!
 
From what the paper said this morning, the judge made a couple of comments which I think Mr. Phelps will be able to use to get it overturned, if the comments are accurate.
 
What is really bad about all of this is that if it gets overturned or they won, they will say that it is because God protected them. If the ruling stands, they will say the only reason they are being persecuted is because they are following God and Satan is trying to destroy it…

In Other words, they will probably twist the final result to show they are true.

All that being said…

I feel sad for these people. Only the devil can convince a man to Hate love, and to love Hate, and that his Hate is ok by God…

Do not ridicule, simply pray…

In Christ
 
=heisenburg;2914836]What is really bad about all of this is that if it gets overturned or they won, they will say that it is because God protected them. If the ruling stands, they will say the only reason they are being persecuted is because they are following God and Satan is trying to destroy it…
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In Other words, they will probably twist the final result to show they are true
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True, they will try to twist the outcome to their own advantage. However, if the ruling stands, reality is gowing to rear its ugly head against them and it will become much for difficult for them to protest the funerals of our fallen soldiers(they’ve alreay planned to protest another one tomorrow). Protests cost money, and when their assets are siezed they will no longer have the resources to drive around the country to harass and abuse grieving families.
 
I am so glad for this verdict. However, I think we know that Mr. Synder won’t ever see a dime of it - at least not for a very long time.

What I wnat to know is this: Will this court battle and subsequent verdict in favor of the plaintiff MAKE THEM STOP THEIR HATEFUL DISPLAYS???

I don’t really think Mr. Synder would care so much about the money. I think he cares more about stopping this crazy “church” from disturbing other families. That’s what he ultimately wants.
 
Mr. Phelps and his ilk have done incalculable amounts of damage to the good name of Christianity, and it’s not over. Regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit, he and people like him will continue to damage the efforts of the faithful. If the verdict is overturned, it will simply embolden him and his followers, and give them a sick sort of legitimacy amongst those who agree with them. However, it might actually be worse if it is upheld. Regardless of any spin Mr. Phelps tries to put on it, there is an even bigger threat that is constantly waiting to rear its ugly head. Anti-Christian groups of every type will seize a guilty verdict as precedence for legislation against “Christian hate speech”. Canadian liberals didn’t even need that much, so think about how potent of a weapon this will be in their arsenal.

It will start with lawsuits against churches and parishes that dare to say that homosexual behavior is a sin. After a small flood of these, the actual legislation will start, making it illegal to preach against just about anything.

As much as I would love to see the Westboro Baptist Church reduced to a bankrupt nonentity, effectively eliminating their ability to spread their message of hate as widely as they have, I can’t help but believe that this sad little man has merely been a pawn in a much larger demonic scheme. An eventual lawsuit was inevitable, and the legal precedent that will be set will endanger Christianity in ways that a misguided homophobe never could.

This will be used as an excuse to suppress religious free speech, mark my words. And if the verdict is somehow overturned, the damage may be mitigated, but not eliminated. It will be used by liberal politicians as an example of how religious conservatives have hijacked the justice system in order to protect Christian hate speech. Come to think of it, even that might lead to anti-Christian speech legislation, driven by the anger it will so easily stir up in liberal and “moderate” circles.

Christians will suffer, no matter what the outcome. Such a perfectly horrible setup must be demonically orchestrated. Either verdict will lead to laws being passed against preaching Christian values, and then it’s all downhill from there.

Lord, please let me be wrong.
 
I feel so sorry for that family. Trying to bury their son and have that ‘church’ do that. How can anyone who claims to believe in God do that to a grieving family? I will pray for them all.
 
I feel compassion for the family, but grateful that so many have offered their support to them.

I feel compassion for the members of Westboro Baptist Church. They are filled with hate, anger and fear as they try to find God and salvation. They are truly overcome by delusion. They need to be controlled through laws that provide limits to protests within certain distances of funeral homes and cemetaries. Several States have passed such laws.

I do believe this ruling will be appealed and should be appealed. All Americans have the constitutional right to protest. This ruling appears to interfere with that right. I would find it ironic if the ACLU steps in to defend Westboro and in doing so, yet again, defends the Constitution. I doubt that Westboro would accept the ACLU’s help. 😉

Westboro Church members are basically judgment proof. The two main leaders of the movement each have less than $300 in their bank accounts. They have several lawyers as members and appear to have independent sources of income for travel and expenses to funerals up and down the East Coast and into the Midwest. This indicates to me at least, this Church is receiving significant outside support from undisclosed sources.
 
Their whole beef with the country is that the United States “tolerates homosexuality”. Iran’s president said while he was over here that they have no homosexuals in his country, so why doesn’t Westboro just set up shop in Iran? Then they wouldn’t have the homosexuals to deal with.

I know that was a joke in the middle of a fairly serious thread. I am happy that the father was awarded the money. Even if it gets overturned, at least it happened, showing that it can be done. Hopefully Westboro Baptist “church” will get bombarded with so many lawsuits, they can’t physically continue with the picketing.
 
cyberjacques said:
Regardless of any spin Mr. Phelps tries to put on it, there is an even bigger threat that is constantly waiting to rear its ugly head. Anti-Christian groups of every type will seize a guilty verdict as precedence for legislation against “Christian hate speech”.
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Excellent point.
 
notself said:
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Westboro Church members are basically judgment proof. The two main leaders of the movement each have less than $300 in their bank accounts. They have several lawyers as members and appear to have independent sources of income for travel and expenses to funerals up and down the East Coast and into the Midwest. This indicates to me at least, this Church is receiving significant outside support from undisclosed sources.
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I saw in a an interview with the father of the soldier and he said that during discovery they found that Westboro Baptist Church had a little over a million dollars.
 
What has amazed me through all of this is the fact that the families and friends of the soldiers (sailors or marines) have not violently reacted to these people. It would be hard for many people just to ignore them.

With regards to the right to protest, I do not see how a funeral for a private citizen is the time or place for protest. These people were not in the public eye, did not promote a political cause, or in any way shape or form have an agenda. In my opinion, the right to protest should not apply in this case.
 
I am a memeber of the Patriot Guard Riders. We are invited by the Families to stand in respect to fallen soldiers and returning soldiers. The majority of us ride motorcycles. We surround the Family with flags. Many times, this church has threaten to picket the funerals.

We were there.

We stand with our backs facing any protesters. We do not engage in any confrontations. We are there purely out of respect.

I have been to a few. It is very moving. I have cried many times.

This Westboro Baptist Church shames America.
 
I do believe this ruling will be appealed and should be appealed. All Americans have the constitutional right to protest. This ruling appears to interfere with that right. I would find it ironic if the ACLU steps in to defend Westboro and in doing so, yet again, defends the Constitution. I doubt that Westboro would accept the ACLU’s help. 😉
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This ruling holds Westboro accountable for its actions, as it should. I doubt it will mitigate the right of free speech any more than any laws against slander, harassment or assault already on the books.

We have the right to peacfully protest the government. Not slander, libel, harass or verbally abuse anyone. A major purpose of the despicable conduct of Westboro Baptist is to torment grieving families. No way should it be considered protected free speech.
Westboro Church members are basically judgment proof. The two main leaders of the movement each have less than $300 in their bank accounts. They have several lawyers as members and appear to have independent sources of income for travel and expenses to funerals up and down the East Coast and into the Midwest. This indicates to me at least, this Church is receiving significant outside support from undisclosed sources.
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But they do have assets that can be liquidated: the property on which the church resides…the homes that belong to its members.(provided that the church is unincorporated). Most of its members have jobs. In fact, some of Phelps familiy members(family members/church member, pretty much one and the same) are purported to work for the Kansas Department of Corrections:eek: . If the church is unincorporated, its members salary or wages may be subject to garnishment.

Aside from the money its members donate to the Phelps, I suspect that another source of revenue for the ‘church’ are judgements from lawsuits. Another major motive for these protests appears to be to deliberately provoke confrontations so that Westboro can sue for damages(which is probably why some of the church leaders/Phelp’s kids are also attorneys).
 
2 points…

One… My hats off to you outfctrl… Thank you a thousand times over for what you guys do. I’ve seen stuff by your group and groups like yours and it always makes such a statement… If I move back to Jax, (In Laws live there) I need to look you up so I can shake your hand…

two… Though mentioned, Freedom of Speech is not all encompassing. Examples of Legal, Constitutional exceptions to this right. You do NOT have the right to stand up in a crowded theater and yell Fire. You do NOT have the right to instill Civil disobedience. and you do NOT have the right to invade on private citizens and their functions…

In Other words… A vegetarian can’t come into your house on Thanks Giving and picket your house. Green Earthers Can’t protest a family because they use pesticides for their back yard flowers… And people CAN’T intrude upon PRIVATE functions, like funerals…

If the Obit says open to public, then it becomes a public event, but if you say to Family and Friends, it is still a private event. the Obit for this Funeral i believe was limited to Family and Friends, and therefore still private. Westboro had zero free speech rights to protest this funeral, and that is why they were found guilty…

It is HIGHLY unlikely it will be overturned. Not because so many people shake their head at this group, but because they did infact break the law

In Christ
 
heisenburg said:
2 points…

One… My hats off to you outfctrl… Thank you a thousand times over for what you guys do. I’ve seen stuff by your group and groups like yours and it always makes such a statement… If I move back to Jax, (In Laws live there) I need to look you up so I can shake your hand…

two… Though mentioned, Freedom of Speech is not all encompassing. Examples of Legal, Constitutional exceptions to this right. You do NOT have the right to stand up in a crowded theater and yell Fire. You do NOT have the right to instill Civil disobedience. and you do NOT have the right to invade on private citizens and their functions…

In Other words… A vegetarian can’t come into your house on Thanks Giving and picket your house. Green Earthers Can’t protest a family because they use pesticides for their back yard flowers… And people CAN’T intrude upon PRIVATE functions, like funerals…

If the Obit says open to public, then it becomes a public event, but if you say to Family and Friends, it is still a private event. the Obit for this Funeral i believe was limited to Family and Friends, and therefore still private. Westboro had zero free speech rights to protest this funeral, and that is why they were found guilty…

It is HIGHLY unlikely it will be overturned. Not because so many people shake their head at this group, but because they did infact break the law

In Christ
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I second what you wrote.
 
estesbob said:
I saw in a an interview with the father of the soldier and he said that during discovery they found that Westboro Baptist Church had a little over a million dollars.
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An article I read said they could not locate any assets. It would be reasonable to assume that have substantial assets. Travel, even by car is expensive.

Several of them are lawyers. I wonder who would go to them for legal advice?
 
outfctrl said:
I am a memeber of the Patriot Guard Riders. We are invited by the Families to stand in respect to fallen soldiers and returning soldiers. The majority of us ride motorcycles. We surround the Family with flags. Many times, this church has threaten to picket the funerals.

We were there.

We stand with our backs facing any protesters. We do not engage in any confrontations. We are there purely out of respect.

I have been to a few. It is very moving. I have cried many times.

This Westboro Baptist Church shames America.
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Thank you for your service.

Westboro shames only themselves.
 
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