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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
General notice:
Hot Topic for the week of 3/17.
Please remain on topic.
Hot Topic for the week of 3/17.
Please remain on topic.
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lax16
Guest
We are all sinners. We are not “playing nice” but are reminded that we all will die someday.
Some of us are more ornery than others for sure, but all sinners none the less.
We want everyone to be in heaven!!
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AbideWithMe
Guest
Well said.We are all sinners. We are not “playing nice” but are reminded that we all will die someday.
Some of us are more ornery than others for sure, but all sinners none the less.
We want everyone to be in heaven!!
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TK421
Guest
Hi NoWings,
‘Playing nice’ is not a burden. There is nothing amusing about the prospect of a creature with such a legacy as him dying in his bed sick, old, and alone and still clinging to his falsehoods. His tomb will be like a radioactive scar that people will fear to go near.
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
“Remember, man, you are dust, and unto dust you shall return.”
Kyrie eleison,
Christe eleison,
Kyrie eleison.
Kyrie eleison,
Christe eleison,
Kyrie eleison.
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cajunhillbilly
Guest
May God have mercy on his soul and grant him true repentance
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NoWings
Guest
Sure it is. That’s why Jesus said to love your enemies. Because it’s hard and it’s a burden. He says so, in fact. Being a Christian means laying a cross over your emotions as well.
I’m sure there are Christians all over America trying to do this exact same thing. Saying things like “Lord, have mercy,” and “God forgive him,” through gritted teeth and a forced smile.
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lax16
Guest
Really? Through gritted teeth and a forced smile?
No, it is through the realization that some day this will be me. It is pure humility, my friend, NoWings, that reminds us all that we cannot escape death.
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FreciaMarie
Guest
You are correct. Just as the PP is also correct. Some Christians will have a difficult time trying to pray for this man, some will not. It’s not that difficult, for most Christians, to pray for a change of heart in a person they fear could be eternally lost. But, again, it likely IS difficult for some, particularly those directly affected by the hate this man taught.
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TK421
Guest
There are very few people that would perform back flips at the opportunity to pray for Fred Phelps, since he is among the least lovable people of this world. When I first came to this thread, my first thought was to celebrate. To a certain extent, this is also a proper and righteous reaction, since a longstanding cult leader’s reign has finally come to its end, which is objectively good news. But then apart from this, I also considered the man himself and his wretched condition, and how it is within the power of God that even now he may die in grace.
However, even if it remains a difficult task to do, which (not trying to sound cocky) it truly did become easy for me once I actually stopped to take a breath and reflect on the grand matter, it is still less of a burden to push against the grains of our passion and offer a prayer for him than it is to pleasurably revel in his death. The more we feed such dangerous appetites, the more shackled we become to our present nature.
Perhaps another way to look at it is that the burden of righteousness starts off heavy and becomes easy. The burden of evil starts off easy and becomes heavy. It is through occasions such as this that we either mature or degrade.
However, even if it remains a difficult task to do, which (not trying to sound cocky) it truly did become easy for me once I actually stopped to take a breath and reflect on the grand matter, it is still less of a burden to push against the grains of our passion and offer a prayer for him than it is to pleasurably revel in his death. The more we feed such dangerous appetites, the more shackled we become to our present nature.
Perhaps another way to look at it is that the burden of righteousness starts off heavy and becomes easy. The burden of evil starts off easy and becomes heavy. It is through occasions such as this that we either mature or degrade.
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FreciaMarie
Guest
Beautiful.
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Son_of_Niall
Guest
Sir, do keep in mind that you are on a CHRISTIAN forum. If you want to vomit this kind of garbage, which is no different than the garbage vomited by WBC, I suggest you find an athiest forum.
Christians respect human life, all human life, even if that person has no respect for it himself.
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Son_of_Niall
Guest
You ain’t gonna believe this one:
Westboro Baptist Church To Protest Fred Phelps’ Funeral, Says Daughter
Westboro Baptist Church To Protest Fred Phelps’ Funeral, Says Daughter
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agnes_therese
Guest
You could not make this stuff up. 
They all need prayers.
They all need prayers.
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Elizium23
Guest
I read his daughter’s Twitter account and the reasons for his excommunication seemed clear enough to me.
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Taurks
Guest
Elizium, I tried to wade back through the account but couldn’t find anything (I only made it to February because they make many, many posts daily) - what was the reason?
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3DOCTORS
Guest
Food for thought:
There is no excuse for Phelps’ behavior, but I see it as symptomatic of a broken, extremely troubled soul and mind. How he got that way we may never completely know. I’ve been reading some articles in the Topeka Capital-Journal such as these
cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps01.shtml
cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/timeline-events-fred-w-phelps-srs-life
which may or may not contradict the account in Lauren Drain’s book that I mentioned earlier. It may have been a religious conversion gone overboard that set things in motion and that was enough. But the obsession with gay people might have a basis in a personal experience. There is more material in Drain’s book about the family members’ experiences that might back this theory up.
One thing that’s sad to me is that people like him, or Warren Jeffs, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Osama bin Laden, Hitler, et al, find so many willing and apparently enthusiastic followers. The followers concern me as much as the leaders do - are they just spineless, or disturbed themselves? Why don’t they say “This is wrong! I’m outta here!”
But at the end of the day, we have to remember this one thing, and it may be difficult to swallow - I don’t find it easy for people like these cult leaders, child abusers, human traffickers, terrorists, dictators, etc. But here it is: Jesus Christ died for them too. We can’t be His followers and desire revenge. We must pray for their conversion even when there seems to be no hope. Maybe a person like this at the very last moment has repentance. Maybe he or she will have to spend a lot of time in Purgatory.
We feel indignant and violated by their actions, and it’s okay to acknowledge our feelings and to protect people from hurt (such as the way the Patriot Guard does when the WBC picketes a funeral) but as another poster mentioned, at one time each of these hard-to-love persons was an infant or small child and innocent. Somehow they got twisted up, and there but for the grace of God go you or I.
There is no excuse for Phelps’ behavior, but I see it as symptomatic of a broken, extremely troubled soul and mind. How he got that way we may never completely know. I’ve been reading some articles in the Topeka Capital-Journal such as these
cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps01.shtml
cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/timeline-events-fred-w-phelps-srs-life
which may or may not contradict the account in Lauren Drain’s book that I mentioned earlier. It may have been a religious conversion gone overboard that set things in motion and that was enough. But the obsession with gay people might have a basis in a personal experience. There is more material in Drain’s book about the family members’ experiences that might back this theory up.
One thing that’s sad to me is that people like him, or Warren Jeffs, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Osama bin Laden, Hitler, et al, find so many willing and apparently enthusiastic followers. The followers concern me as much as the leaders do - are they just spineless, or disturbed themselves? Why don’t they say “This is wrong! I’m outta here!”
But at the end of the day, we have to remember this one thing, and it may be difficult to swallow - I don’t find it easy for people like these cult leaders, child abusers, human traffickers, terrorists, dictators, etc. But here it is: Jesus Christ died for them too. We can’t be His followers and desire revenge. We must pray for their conversion even when there seems to be no hope. Maybe a person like this at the very last moment has repentance. Maybe he or she will have to spend a lot of time in Purgatory.
We feel indignant and violated by their actions, and it’s okay to acknowledge our feelings and to protect people from hurt (such as the way the Patriot Guard does when the WBC picketes a funeral) but as another poster mentioned, at one time each of these hard-to-love persons was an infant or small child and innocent. Somehow they got twisted up, and there but for the grace of God go you or I.
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RPRPsych
Guest
Lord, have mercy on him.
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ltwin
Guest
I don’t believe that Westboro Baptist Church is representative of any Baptist church. It would first need to be Christian.
Nevertheless, (authentic) Baptists have used the term “excommunicated.” Some Baptist churches practice closed communion, so in those cases, the term is quite accurate. Take for example the (Southern Baptist Affiliated) Shoal Creek Baptist Association of Tennessee’s position on church discipline stated at their 10th annual session in 1834:
“We deem it proper however, to say that excommunication dissolves entirely, all connection between the church, and the individual excommunicated. He is to them afterwards, “as a heathen man, and a publican.” The church has no further claim whatever upon him, nor is there any relation subsisting between him and that, more than any other church. The usage generally established among us, of refusing an excommunicant from another church, until he has been reconciled to such church, has arisen wholly from courtesy . . .” (Baptist History)
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Elizium23
Guest
WBC is not Baptist and not a Church or even an ecclesial community. It is a scam, run by con men like Phelps. Phelps is a disbarred lawyer, and it has been posited that the WBC does the things that they do, not out of sincerely held religious beliefs, but only so that they can sue people who lash out at them in anger or police forces which deny them First Amendment rights, and so on.
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