Westboro Baptist sect and its fight on homosexuality.

[Elzee]

I’ve seen these people in action protesting churches (Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist). They are pure evil. They hold signs too obscene to even describe. I wouldn’t be surprised if they track website hits…don’t give them the satisfaction of raising the count if you haven’t already.

 

[puzzleannie]

well that will teach me not to click on a link without reading the title first, thanks for that very nasty little surprise, and please don’t do it again. this has the earmarks of a hoax, and certainly would not be the site of a legitimate Church, pastor or organization that claims to be Christian. They are about as Christian as David Koresh or Jim Jones.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

This same group protests Catholic Churches and after the Pope died had children with pictures of him with horns drawn on his head saying he was in hell.The guy is imbalanced to say the least.:nope:

 

[Bruised_Reed]

According to this Wikipedia entry Fred Phelps

suffers from a mental illness that leaves him unsatisfied with life unless he can be responsible for the suffering of other human beings.

'Splains a lot. I can’t find where I read it but Phelps doesn’t consider himself a Christian. I believe that that’s a good thing.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

ahimsaman72:

True. This is a rogue group of half-wits that have let their hearts be darkened by the hatred of Fred Phelps. It’s obviously wrong for them to behave this way, however they don’t speak nor represent Baptists any more than John Kerry represents true Catholic beliefs.

Peace…

However, we can’t say “X is not a Christian” merely becauise we regard them or their views as loathsome - because if we try that, it will be tried out on us - result: no one will belong to the Church at all; as all of us will have been able to find something in each other that is hateful. The only difference between a serial murderer, and Fred Phelps, and us, is the degree and publicity of our corruption. If all are baptised, all are “in Christ” to some degree, however slight or great. All of us receive mercy, because all of us have been under the condemnation of God; as St.Paul explains in Romans.​

Which is why this labelling of people as “true Christians” or “true Catholics” is so pernicious: it is incipiently schismatic, because those who call themselves by such labels are implicitly judging others who are in the Church as much as they are; and saying, in effect, that such people do not come up to their standards, and are therefore not really Christian at all: as though the Church were not for sinners. Christ did not come for the healthy, but for the sick - the only “true Christians”, are the ones who are full of sin.

So, if we judge others in this way (even those we think are incipiently schismatic in the manner described above), we may well find that we have been blind to equal (or greater) faults in ourselves. The Church is God’s - not ours: and if it be His Will that hateful, bigoted, intolerant, vicious, murderous, deceitful, etc.,…people should be members of His Church, that is His business, and not ours. To dismiss them, is to dismiss ourselves, and to forget that God can easily convert and sanctify even persecutors: as He did St.Paul. If we discriminate between those whom we are pleased to call “true” and “false” Christians, instead of allowing all to be Christians without such labels of ours - we may find ourselves among the goats in Christ’s eyes, when we have thought ourselves to be among the sheep.

Therefore, it follows that Mother Teresa, John Kerry, Fred Phelps, and those who criticise or praise them, are all equally Christians.

And no, I don’t like his views or his behaviour; so I’m not supporting them. But disliking them does not give one the right to unChristianise him. Only God can do that. ##

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Bruised Reed:

I can’t find where I read it but Phelps doesn’t consider himself a Christian. I believe that that’s a good thing.

Okay, here’s where I read it first; follow the links to to Holyoffice:

Members of WBC generally avoid the name “Christian” when referring to themselves, preferring the mysterious term “Tachmonite.”

Google “Tachmonite” for more info.

 

[Malachi4U]

I emailed Jon Phelps and I got a reply. It is too unChristian-like to post his response here but I would encourage all of you to email him. He can shure spew out verses, now if he just knew context He could be on to something.

Also, if anyone would like to go to one of his protests around Oklahoma let me know. We could bring some signs and pray for him and his followers. We could hopefully keep him away from some of the military funerals he is disturbing. Just a thought?

JMJ

 

[EricCKS]

Whenever I go visit my inlaws in Topeka KS (Phleps’s homebase) you see Phelps and his group picketing somewhere. One morning it was outside the CC we went to. I ask one of the parishoners what drew his attendance and they did not know. The best estimate my wife and I could make was that the CC churches associated with other area churches in being open to gays etc. What open means we could not discern.

It is sad to see all the young children holding signs.

Thanks
Eric

 

[Malachi4U]

Does anyone know how many followers he has?

 

[ahimsaman72]

Bruised Reed:

Okay, here’s where I read it first; follow the links to to Holyoffice:

Google “Tachmonite” for more info.

I did a search for this and didn’t come up with much. I found one Bible reference. Now, I can’t figure out why they would align themselves with this reference except that they may believe they are somehow, “Chief among congregations” in the world. I don’t know. It’s probably something so obscure that we would find it unintelligible. Here is the Bible reference:

2Sa 23:8 - In Context|Read Chapter|Original Hebrew] These be the names of the mighty men whom David had: The Tachmonite that sat in the seat, chief among the captains; the same was Adino the Eznite: he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time.

 

[ahimsaman72]

## However, we can’t say “X is not a Christian” merely becauise we regard them or their views as loathsome - because if we try that, it will be tried out on us - result: no one will belong to the Church at all; as all of us will have been able to find something in each other that is hateful. The only difference between a serial murderer, and Fred Phelps, and us, is the degree and publicity of our corruption. If all are baptised, all are “in Christ” to some degree, however slight or great. All of us receive mercy, because all of us have been under the condemnation of God; as St.Paul explains in Romans.

Which is why this labelling of people as “true Christians” or “true Catholics” is so pernicious: it is incipiently schismatic, because those who call themselves by such labels are implicitly judging others who are in the Church as much as they are; and saying, in effect, that such people do not come up to their standards, and are therefore not really Christian at all: as though the Church were not for sinners. Christ did not come for the healthy, but for the sick - the only “true Christians”, are the ones who are full of sin.

So, if we judge others in this way (even those we think are incipiently schismatic in the manner described above), we may well find that we have been blind to equal (or greater) faults in ourselves. The Church is God’s - not ours: and if it be His Will that hateful, bigoted, intolerant, vicious, murderous, deceitful, etc.,…people should be members of His Church, that is His business, and not ours. To dismiss them, is to dismiss ourselves, and to forget that God can easily convert and sanctify even persecutors: as He did St.Paul. If we discriminate between those whom we are pleased to call “true” and “false” Christians, instead of allowing all to be Christians without such labels of ours - we may find ourselves among the goats in Christ’s eyes, when we have thought ourselves to be among the sheep.

Therefore, it follows that Mother Teresa, John Kerry, Fred Phelps, and those who criticise or praise them, are all equally Christians.

And no, I don’t like his views or his behaviour; so I’m not supporting them. But disliking them does not give one the right to unChristianise him. Only God can do that. ##

No doubt about it - we can’t dogmatically define certain groups as “not Christians” versus “Christians”. But, we can tell by their fruit. Christ said, “By their fruits you shall know them”. We can judge behaviour without judging soul competency.

I wouldn’t want to get into a debate on just who is a Christian or not. Then you would have to draw up criteria which could be broad or narrow and would itself lead to endless back and forth banter. We should, however, always fight against hatred and violence. We can be united in that. I don’t care where it comes from - hatred and violence are morally wrong and should be humanely and civilly fought against.

Peace…

 

[Malachi4U]

ahimsaman72:

No doubt about it - we can’t dogmatically define certain groups as “not Christians” versus “Christians”. But, we can tell by their fruit. Christ said, “By their fruits you shall know them”. We can judge behaviour without judging soul competency.

You’ve spent too much time on this forum, that sounds like you believe in “works” now?

I wouldn’t want to get into a debate on just who is a Christian or not.

You have spent too much time with us Catholics. Virtually every Baptist I went to worship service with did this very thing daily. The preachers did it from the pulpit nearly every sermon. There was one Baptist sect I was in back in Stillwater Oklahoma that did not judge others. Of course the Baptist Preacher did get run out of that church and replaced back in the early 80’s.

Then you would have to draw up criteria which could be broad or narrow and would itself lead to endless back and forth banter.

I thought Jesus defined it very well. All who are baptized in the name of the Trinity with water are Christians? Websters dictionary has a definition too. So then there is the banter you talked about.

We should, however, always fight against hatred and violence.

We can be united in that. I don’t care where it comes from - hatred and violence are morally wrong and should be humanely and civilly fought against.

Peace…

Great point!

God bless,

JMJ

 

[ahimsaman72]

Malachi4U:

You’ve spent too much time on this forum, that sounds like you believe in “works” now?You have spent too much time with us Catholics. Virtually every Baptist I went to worship service with did this very thing daily. The preachers did it from the pulpit nearly every sermon. There was one Baptist sect I was in back in Stillwater Oklahoma that did not judge others. Of course the Baptist Preacher did get run out of that church and replaced back in the early 80’s.I thought Jesus defined it very well. All who are baptized in the name of the Trinity with water are Christians? Websters dictionary has a definition too. So then there is the banter you talked about. Great point!

God bless,

JMJ

Hahaha…yes, probably spent WAY too much time here I admit. I’m pretty inclusive I think. While I believe in conservative values, I try not to be an exclusionist. I tend to give the definition as broader in context because some have a theological problem with the Trinity yet follow Christ as Savior.

Of course, this topic of who is a Christian and who is not has been debated in other threads and I sure would hate to dredge the topic up again - it tends to only divide into haves and havenots and I’m just not comfortable with that.

Yes, we can fight intolerance, hatred and violence together. That’s the one thing we can gather around and minimize as much as possible. You know, you and I are closer than you think on a lot of things and we should focus on those things that mesh and not the things that divide

Peace…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

EricCKS:

Whenever I go visit my inlaws in Topeka KS (Phleps’s homebase) you see Phelps and his group picketing somewhere. One morning it was outside the CC we went to. I ask one of the parishoners what drew his attendance and they did not know. The best estimate my wife and I could make was that the CC churches associated with other area churches in being open to gays etc. What open means we could not discern.

It is sad to see all the young children holding signs.

Thanks
Eric

He probably feels as strongly about homosexuality as people in Operation Rescue do about abortion. He is only showing in his activities what people who talk of homosexuality as “the elephant within the Church” (or whatever the phrase was) express by their words. Maybe that is why some people don’t like him - because he is what they are, only more openly.​

So it seems rather hard to criticise him, except for imprudence. ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Malachi4U:

You’ve spent too much time on this forum, that sounds like you believe in “works” now?You have spent too much time with us Catholics. Virtually every Baptist I went to worship service with did this very thing daily.

But Ahimsa isn’t “virtually every Baptist” - he’s Ahimsa, and nobody else​

The preachers did it from the pulpit nearly every sermon. There was one Baptist sect I was in back in Stillwater Oklahoma that did not judge others. Of course the Baptist Preacher did get run out of that church and replaced back in the early 80’s.I thought Jesus defined it very well. All who are baptized in the name of the Trinity with water are Christians? Websters dictionary has a definition too. So then there is the banter you talked about. Great point!

God bless,

JMJ

 

[Darrel]

Seems like a similar ‘hate theme’ that we see in skin head circles. The whole thing stinks of KKK and the regular Nazi thing. They all seem to say “God wants me to hate this and that because he does!!!.”

-D

 

[ahimsaman72]

## But Ahimsa isn’t “virtually every Baptist” - he’s Ahimsa, and nobody else ##

hahaha…I don’t know if that’s good or bad…