Western Protestants Jumping to Eastern Orthodoxy

[mark_a]

A Quaker friend of mine posted the Nicene Creed on his Facebook the other day without the Filioque. Now, that’s a hot issue, but it seems to me that’s too huge a jump to take. He can’t really know where he’s going to land, especially since he lives in Quaker Pennsylvania.

I think a western Protestant should reunite with the western church, the Roman Catholic Church, and then see if they feel they’re still in the wrong district.

Edit: and I say “Western Protestants” because protestants have expanded into Orthodox territory, and I understand why a Russian Lutheran or Baptist would revert straight to the Russian Orthodox Church.

Here’s a good article on this very subject, and WHY Protestants are more at-ease jumping to Orthodoxy than Catholicism.

catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504fea1.asp

 

[SedesDomi]

Did protestants learn the rhetorical tricks from the East or the other way around? Seems pretty clear to me right in Scripture that the Petrine included included a major role in making universal decisions (Pork, anyone? )

“Major role” is one thing; universal papal jurisdiction and papal infallibility as defined by Vatican II, is a whole 'nother issue (and not agreed upon by the Orthodox)

But you can surely make the criticism that the word ‘papacy’ didn’t show up in the Early Church. Heaven forbid we create words to describe realities present in Tradition! (Good thing we came up with ‘Trinity’ before the split or that one would have to go too, eh?)

And heaven forbid that those in apostolic authority should dare to draw true inferences from true revelation. (Purgatory)

Inferences may be drawn; whether those inferences are compatible with the apostolic tradition has to be decided by ecumenical councils, not unilateraly (or uni-patriachately) declared true.

 

[Patrick1982]

Here’s a good article on this very subject, and WHY Protestants are more at-ease jumping to Orthodoxy than Catholicism.

catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504fea1.asp

You’d think that jumping back to a Church that barely fasts anymore and sings Protestant hymns would be easier for a Protestant to handle… So it must be their inability to accept the papacy as it exists.

 

[MrDickerson]

Here’s a good article on this very subject, and WHY Protestants are more at-ease jumping to Orthodoxy than Catholicism.

catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504fea1.asp

This is a really good article.

"There is a marked contrast between these accounts of Evangelicals’ journey to an Eastern Church and the stories told by converts to the Catholic Church…
"These pilgrimages to Rome were arduous. Like Jacob wrestling with the angel, these converts struggled, most of them for years and often in great anguish of spirit and mind. As the truth of Catholicism began to dawn on them, all were surprised. Many were at first appalled at the thought of becoming Catholic, but all finally learned that the pearl of great price always brings unspeakable joy to those who find it and accept it.
“Now back to Gillquist’s book and the stories of other Evangelicals in Coming Home. The overwhelming impression one receives is that these pilgrimages were easy. There were difficulties in finding a place in the Eastern ecclesiastical structure, but the intellectual and spiritual aspects of the pilgrimage sound like a breeze.”

SO TRUE!

 

[MrDickerson]

You’d think that jumping back to a Church that barely fasts anymore and sings Protestant hymns would be easier for a Protestant to handle… So it must be their inability to accept the papacy as it exists.

“O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men…I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess…”

Although I do understand your point; the Vatican II “reforms” which were aimed at bringing schismatics and heretics into the Church by making concessions to them have had the opposite effect.

Many Catholics, such as myself, observe the traditional fasting regulations and attend exclusively the ancient, traditional Roman rite of the Holy Mass.

 

[MrDickerson]

Now there’s a BINGO if I ever saw one! :aok:

Ahem, contrary to the apparent belief of the “Orthodox” sects, “mystery” does not equate to nebulousness, Hesychios. The true meaning of a “mystery” is not something about which we cannot know anything, but something about which we cannot know everything. The Apostles themselves never defined the “Trinity”, but the concept was clearly present in their teaching; and, like another person said, theological precision is a necessary guard against heresy. This is one of the reasons the Catholic Church wrote the Nicene Creed.

Eastern Schismatics often think they are more “deep” and more “mystical” by refusing to “explain” theology, but this really only betrays their lack of depth and failure to grasp basic Apostolic teachings. And in their fervor to contradict anything that is “Roman”–such as the mystery of transubstantiation–I have personally heard “Orthodox” persons state that the bread and wine co-exist with the invisible Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist–this is the Lutheran heresy known as “con-substantiation”! (The Catholic belief–which is of course the only real orthodox belief–is that after the Consecration, no bread and wine remains upon the altar. The Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ.)

 

[Hesychios]

• Ahem*, contrary to the apparent belief of the “Orthodox” sects,

Your penchant for heaping insults will not win your case with anybody. Probably just the opposite. It is crude and distasteful which anyone will see.

• …*This is one of the reasons the Catholic Church wrote the Nicene Creed.

Sophistry.

Eastern Schismatics

At it again I see.

often think they are more “deep” and more “mystical” by refusing to “explain” theology, but this really only betrays their lack of depth and failure to grasp basic Apostolic teachings. And in their fervor to contradict anything that is “Roman”–such as the mystery of transubstantiation–I have personally heard “Orthodox” persons state that the bread and wine co-exist with the invisible Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist–this is the Lutheran heresy known as “con-substantiation”!

The simple truth is no one but God knows how the Real Presence actually works and it is not at all necessary for us to know. Any explanation we fallible human creatures attempt is certain to be inadequate. You use this scholastic era theory of yours as an excuse to condemn others.

There is a certain pride of the intellect in we fallen human creatures which we must always guard against. Unfortunately, the Latin church has seemed to not be much concerned, to it’s own detriment. Now it is too late and you cannot, or will not, retract your errors.

You are in a bind.

 

[jblake]

manualman;:

Their solution (sigh) was to announce their pastor to be an orthodox priest and they have adopted EO liturgy, doctrine, mysteries, prayers, etc. Oh, except for all that pesky stuff regarding apostolic succession.

If that is the ex-Protestant denomination I think it is, they adopted that solution because the Orthodox churches wouldn’t initially talk with them. Roughly thirty years later, all congregations in that denomination were in full communion with an Orthodox Church. (Each congregation voted for, and actively pursued the national Church with which they would become members of.) It wasn’t an easy transition for either the congregations, or the bodies that adopted them.

jonathon

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Here’s a good article on this very subject, and WHY Protestants are more at-ease jumping to Orthodoxy than Catholicism.

catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504fea1.asp

Interesting article, Mark. Maybe I’ll read the reviewed book. I am not sure about all of the conclusion, though. I would think eastern Protestants would feel more allied with the Catholic Church against the Orthodox Church. Do you know what they are like?

 

[Hesychios]

Here’s a good article on this very subject, and WHY Protestants are more at-ease jumping to Orthodoxy than Catholicism.

catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504fea1.asp

On this subject I should think a man who has never been Orthodox, employed by Catholic Answers can speak for himself alone.

It’s just a sorry sad excuse to attribute converts to Holy Orthodoxy as only because they are prejudiced against the Pope.

A strong case can be made that converts to Roman Catholicism are only doing that because the people are prejudiced against that Orthodox “foreign cultural milieu” and can’t seem to get over it. Scott Hahn practically admits that this was one of his problems.

But really, both of these arguments either way would be unsubstantiated lame excuses, like a face-saving exercise. It makes some people feel better to believe that “those people made the wrong choice because of an inherent weakness”.

If a seeker is after Truth, really pursuing it, there is no barrier too great to cross. No Pope, and no exotic eastern culture will stop them. That is why we have people reading and posting here who have been on their journey literally YEARS, and still persist. It’s just too important.

So take that article with a grain of salt, it’s the man’s job to write things that either make his own choices look good, or other’s choices look suspect.

 

[Hesychios]

If that is the ex-Protestant denomination I think it is, they adopted that solution because the Orthodox churches wouldn’t initially talk with them. Roughly thirty years later, all congregations in that denomination were in full communion with an Orthodox Church. (Each congregation voted for, and actively pursued the national Church with which they would become members of.) It wasn’t an easy transition for either the congregations, or the bodies that adopted them.

jonathon

I think that there are just a few parishes left of that group. They began breaking up and joining the Antiochian Orthodox en masse some time ago. Since then some of the remainder Evangelical Orthodox communities went to the OCA.

The final remaining group are still on a journey, they are not Orthodox, but they are still looking.

 

[foxscape]

like the Mystery of why they throw out the Papacy or deny purgatory but still pray for the dead lol

Well to be technically correct, many of the Orthodox actually do not throw out the Papacy, they accept that the Bishop of Rome should be considered the first among equals. What they do not accept is that Papacy holds infallibility (which they believe is only bestowed on ecumenical councils) and that authority should be completely ceded to the Bishop of Rome.

The reasons that the Orthodox pray for the dead are a little complicated but certainly do not require purgatory to be relevant. In a nutshell, the Orthodox believe that there are two judgments that a soul must face the first occurs immediately after death, the results of this judgment determines where the soul will reside until the general resurrection when all souls will be judged again. Souls (even those in hell) that have a mark of grace will be taken into the kingdom of God and those without will be cast into hell. Thus, praying for God’s mercy on for the souls of the departed makes great sense as we hope that they will be granted mercy, if not upon death then on the day of the general resurrection.

Your glibness and "lol’ offend me, to mock what you do not and clearly have made no effort to understand is a disservice to you and those who share your faith. If there is ever to be hope for reunification between our Churches then we must all make a greater effort to understand each other. You cannot expect others to consider the validity of your beliefs if you mock theirs. You’re a fool.

Sincerely,
JRB

 

[manualman]

foxscape, your response would have been excellent without the last line. Unfortunately you succumbed to the same thing that tempted the guy you quoted: anger and irritation.

Both sides have a tendency to come off as smug and superior. I know Heyschios (for example) has come off that way to me in many posts in the past. Part of it is the internet’s lack of ability to convey tone. Part is human fallenness. But I have little doubt where it fundamentally comes from. (Hint: who gains the most when catholics and orthodox call each other bad names?)

I wish I could remember the name of that, um, aspiring pseudo-orthodox community. It was in either northeast Indiana or southwest Michigan, I think. I was travelling the US at the time doing youth retreats and met so many people in so many places that it all blurs together!

 

[mark_a]

On this subject I should think a man who has never been Orthodox, employed by Catholic Answers can speak for himself alone.

It’s just a sorry sad excuse to attribute converts to Holy Orthodoxy as only because they are prejudiced against the Pope.

A strong case can be made that converts to Roman Catholicism are only doing that because the people are prejudiced against that Orthodox “foreign cultural milieu” and can’t seem to get over it. Scott Hahn practically admits that this was one of his problems.

But really, both of these arguments either way would be unsubstantiated lame excuses, like a face-saving exercise. It makes some people feel better to believe that “those people made the wrong choice because of an inherent weakness”.

If a seeker is after Truth, really pursuing it, there is no barrier too great to cross. No Pope, and no exotic eastern culture will stop them. That is why we have people reading and posting here who have been on their journey literally YEARS, and still persist. It’s just too important.

So take that article with a grain of salt, it’s the man’s job to write things that either make his own choices look good, or other’s choices look suspect.

Maybe what you are saying is correct, maybe not, but its hard to be as prejuduce against Orthodoxy as it is against Catholicism in a country like America where many Protestants and nearly as many Catholics don’t even know what Orthodoxy teaches or that Orthodoxy even exists.

 

[SedesDomi]

Maybe what you are saying is correct, maybe not, but its hard to be as prejuduce against Orthodoxy as it is against Catholicism in a country like America where many Protestants and nearly as many Catholics don’t even know what Orthodoxy teaches or that Orthodoxy even exists.

This is the Orthodox Millennium.