Westerners scared of criticising Islam?

[cathopologist]

“The West has become scared to criticise Islam and accepts death threats by Muslim extremists”, says Cardinal George Pell of Sydney in a speech he delivered in England. He goes on to say this, “Many in the West have grown used to practising self-censorship when it comes to Islam, just as we seem to accept that ex-Muslims who criticise Islam and extremism, such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali, require round-the-clock police protection,” he said. “You can be persecuted for hate speech if you discuss violence in Islam, but there is little fear of a hate-speech prosecution for Muslim demonstrators with placards reading ‘Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas’.” Click link to read more.

Sad, but true. Although i personally know a few peace-loving Muslims, they too have a shallow dislike for Jews and Christians who evangelize. Be it in Singapore or anywhere around the world. It just makes me wonder how people (in this case, the Muslims i know) can hate someone or an entire race whom they have never met - but they hate because it is taught in their holy texts. Of course, what is happening in the M.E fuels their hatred even more. If Islam’s holy texts never mentioned about Christianity or Judaism in a disparaging manner, this hatred in them may not exist today.

Personally, i do not think “Westerners” are afraid of criticising Islam. I think Sister Amy and her likes would agree. I think its the Western governments and the EU who are curling their tails in between their legs - for fear of being castigated by the “international community”. By “international community” i mean of course, the rising number of Muslims around the world and Western empathizers such as Karen Armstrong, the liberal media, etc.

 

[Cluny]

Go to

jihadwatch.org (run by a Melkite)

and

americancongressfortruth.com/ (run by a Maronite)

 

[cathopologist]

Go to

jihadwatch.org (run by a Melkite)

and

americancongressfortruth.com/ (run by a Maronite)

I know of these websites, brother. They are informative, but their desire is to breed hatred and fear. The websites are not meant to promote peace. What we really need is to engage dialogue with Muslims. Of course i do not mean every dialogue has to start with an embrace or a bouquet of flowers. We do not have to end with one of us biting the bullet or run off in a hissy fit either. Moderation is important but Muslims have to learn not every critic of their religion have to necessarily give them the utmost ‘respect’ also. Unless what they want is hypocrites to scrub their religion “lightly” and then finish off with some rosy words about Muhammad and his religion.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

"The West has become scared to criticise Islam.

That’s a funny accusation . Normally mainstream media never miss a chance to criticise/condemn Islam .

In Germany now , a student killed minimum 15 students & teachers. Media is not bashing any religion. Can u imagine a Muslims kills 15 innocent persons & media not even mentioned his/her faith ???

 

[cathopologist]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

That’s a funny accusation . Normally mainstream media never miss a chance to criticise/condemn Islam .

In Germany now , a student killed minimum 15 students & teachers. Media is not bashing any religion. Can u imagine a Muslims kills 15 innocent persons & media not even mentioned his/her faith ???

If the German was indeed a Christian, don’t you think the media would reveal it? The media
takes no sides - they are more interested in making money (sales volumes) than bothering about whether the madman was Christian or not.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

If the German was indeed a Christian, don’t you think the media would reveal it? .

almost similar case took place in US …I guess. Medis did not mention his religion also. When media don’t mention religion of a criminal , u can be 100 % sure that s/he is not a Muslim . Otherwise , it’s almost impossible that media forgot to relate religion with crime.

 

[Rocky]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

almost similar case took place in US …I guess. Medis did not mention his religion also. When media don’t mention religion of a criminal , u can be 100 % sure that s/he is not a Muslim . Otherwise , it’s almost impossible that media forgot to relate religion with crime.

I don’t know where you live, Muslim Woman, but here in Minnesota religious affiliation is never mentioned as far as I know, unless it involves a church, temple or mosque that is in the news.

 

[cathopologist]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

almost similar case took place in US …I guess. Medis did not mention his religion also. When media don’t mention religion of a criminal , u can be 100 % sure that s/he is not a Muslim . Otherwise , it’s almost impossible that media forgot to relate religion with crime.

When the media was reporting the Border Guard Mutiny in Bangladesh, they did not even mention about the religion of the mutineers - at least not in my country. So should we speculate they were most definitely Muslim Border Guards? Another thing you always seem to overlook is that not every Westerner is necessarily a Christian or comes from a Christian background. There are Westerners who are also Muslim, Buddhist, Atheists and/or Agnostics. Dr Naik has really indoctrinated your mind i see.

 

[Booklover]

I know of these websites, brother. They are informative, but their desire is to breed hatred and fear. The websites are not meant to promote peace. What we really need is to engage dialogue with Muslims. Of course i do not mean every dialogue has to start with an embrace or a bouquet of flowers. We do not have to end with one of us biting the bullet or run off in a hissy fit either. Moderation is important but Muslims have to learn not every critic of their religion have to necessarily give them the utmost ‘respect’ also. Unless what they want is hypocrites to scrub their religion “lightly” and then finish off with some rosy words about Muhammad and his religion.

I disagree! The hatred comes from Islam! Telling the truth about Islam is not bashing or promoting hatred.

You’ve been around this site for a while. Do you consider it easy to dialogue with people who because of their religion are incapable of independent thought or use circular reasoning, tu quoques, or other diversions to change the subject when it’s not something complimentary to Islam or Muhammad, or when they accuse us of hatred for using their own texts to expose the real Muhammad?

Vickie

 

[Badaliyyah]

It seems to me that England and France (for example) have had some issues that generally one does not run into in the U.S., much to the credit of the States. There are legal limits on freedom of speech in France, and we have seen similar limits popping up in the UK, that are unthinkable (at least at the moment) in the States. And so there have been numerous criminal cases in France against persons who have been critical of Islam (Brigitte Bardot being the most famous). On the other hand, France turns around and restricts the ability of individuals to wear religious symbols in certain public settings: an act that affected various groups but was principally aimed at Muslim women wearing hijab.

I think there are wider issues here: European states are not capable or willing to deal with a basic liberal right like freedom of speech. Islam has become a flashpoint for this in that the states are limiting speech about Islam and limiting Islamic expression all at the same time. This seems to heighten tensions in that both sides feel restricted and persecuted by the state.

salaam.

 

[cathopologist]

I disagree! The hatred comes from Islam! Telling the truth about Islam is not bashing or promoting hatred.

You’ve been around this site for a while. Do you consider it easy to dialogue with people who because of their religion are incapable of independent thought or use circular reasoning, tu quoques, or other diversions to change the subject when it’s not something complimentary to Islam or Muhammad, or when they accuse us of hatred for using their own texts to expose the real Muhammad?

Vickie

Dialogue with Muslims is never easy but it is also not impossible. True, we do get the occasional lambasting from certain Muslim members on CAF whenever we point out the erroneous teachings about Christianity and Judaism as taught by their prophet, but why should we give up on them? I will be the first to admit that i am among the few who gets irritated by their ad hominem, tactical merry-go-round rhetoric to avoid answering questions but i always confront them, always keep repeating no matter what.

 

[cathopologist]

…France turns around and restricts the ability of individuals to wear religious symbols in certain public settings: an act that affected various groups but was principally aimed at Muslim women wearing hijab.

The Hijab is also banned in primary, secondary and tertiary institutions in Singapore. Some companies also discourage their employees from wearing the Hijab - because conservative Muslim women see the Hijab as a sign of religious piety and reinvigoration and also da’awa (Islamic proselytizing).

 

[Badaliyyah]

The Hijab is also banned in primary, secondary and tertiary institutions in Singapore. Some companies also discourage their employees from wearing the Hijab - because conservative Muslim women see the Hijab as a sign of religious piety and reinvigoration and also da’awa (Islamic proselytizing).

there are certainly places other than France (Turkey comes to mind) where it is true. But from a freedom of speech standpoint, it really makes no sense. Granting freedom of speech or expression, as long as it NOT religious speech, is to not grant freedom of speech. When people are not free to express who they are and what they think (through literal speech, but also through press, demonstrations, clothing, worship, etc.), then they are going to feel that the state is persecuting them and is unconcerned and even hostile to the things they value.

salaam.

 

[cathopologist]

When people are not free to express who they are and what they think (through literal speech, but also through press, demonstrations, clothing, worship, etc.), then they are going to feel that the state is persecuting them and is unconcerned and even hostile to the things they value.

salaam.

Our government does give them the freedom to practice their religion as long as they do not pose a threat to society. I do understand where you are coming from, but when it comes to the Hijab, i too can understand the need to restrict it at work or at schools. Singapore is a multi-cultural, multi-racial and multi-religious country so sensitivities are at play here especially when it is known that the Hijab is a proselytizing statement for Muslim women. There have been instances where Muslim women have tried to preach their faith at work or at school - using the Hijab as an example of how Muhammad “loved and respected women” or how today’s society is in decay and women are vulnerable to the corruption of the media and popular culture, hence the need to cover one’s head and dress modestly to please Allah. It must have gotten to the point where non-Muslims felt threatened by Muslim teachers preaching to their kids at school or working colleagues feeling uncomfortable sitting next to their Muslim colleague in order to avoid her preaching habits. Don’t forget, da’awah is a fundamental teaching of Islam.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Afraid of criticizing Islam?

Whatever.

They outright attack Islam, day in, day out.

 

[cathopologist]

Afraid of criticizing Islam?

Whatever.

They outright attack Islam, day in, day out.

Muslims have been attacking Christianity and Judaism since Muhammad’s time.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Muslims have been attacking Christianity and Judaism since Muhammad’s time.

Really?

Like how Christians have been attacking Jews since Jesus’s time?

And how Christians and Jews have been attacking Muslims since Muhammad’s time?

 

[Badaliyyah]

Our government does give them the freedom to practice their religion as long as they do not pose a threat to society. I do understand where you are coming from, but when it comes to the Hijab, i too can understand the need to restrict it at work or at schools. Singapore is a multi-cultural, multi-racial and multi-religious country so sensitivities are at play here especially when it is known that the Hijab is a proselytizing statement for Muslim women. There have been instances where Muslim women have tried to preach their faith at work or at school - using the Hijab as an example of how Muhammad “loved and respected women” or how today’s society is in decay and women are vulnerable to the corruption of the media and popular culture, hence the need to cover one’s head and dress modestly to please Allah. It must have gotten to the point where non-Muslims felt threatened by Muslim teachers preaching to their kids at school or working colleagues feeling uncomfortable sitting next to their Muslim colleague in order to avoid her preaching habits. Don’t forget, da’awah is a fundamental teaching of Islam.

so is bringing the gospel to the whole world, according to Christianity.

I find Christian evangelicals annoying, but I don’t need laws in order to tell them to I am not interested in what they are selling. Da’wa is still speech. And me telling them to shut the #$%* up is also speech.

People are always selling something.

Anyway, to come back to the original topic. It seems to me there is a general constriction of all religious speech in Europe, and that it cannot help but spread further and further and create increasing problems. This constriction is being seen both in the way critics of Islam (who are engaging in a kind of anti-da’wa, if you will) are being treated, and the way in which Islam itself is being constrained in its public practices.

The irony is generally that the two sides are often comfortable with the state silencing the other side, but do not see how it undermines their own opportunities for speech.

salaam.

 

[cathopologist]

Really?

Like how Christians have been attacking Jews since Jesus’s time?

And how Christians and Jews have been attacking Muslims since Muhammad’s time?

Christians have been attacking Jews since Jesus’ time? Where did you learn this? From the Qu’ran? I don’t recall Jesus or even St Paul amassing hordes of people to attack Muslims. Hello? It was the Muslims who INVADED Jewish and Christian lands - not the other way round.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Christians have been attacking Jews since Jesus’ time? Where did you learn this? From the Qu’ran? I don’t recall Jesus or even St Paul amassing hordes of people to attack Muslims. Hello? It was the Muslims who INVADED Jewish and Christian lands - not the other way round.

Good point. I guess Christians-attacking-Jews started some centuries after that.

Muslims didn’t attack Jews or Christians in Jerusalem, though. They left their places of worship in tact, even.