What’s the correct understanding of Sola Scriptura?

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SSTeacher;4954630:
Is there actually a “correct” understanding of Sola Scriptura
?🤷

So what’s your understanding of the Reformation doctrine of Sola Scriptura?

Is it,

a) I believe what I read in the Bible in line with what my Bible–believing denomination teaches
b) I believe what I read in the Bible in line with what my pastor teaches
c) I believe what I read in the Bible in line with what the people at my church believe
d) I believe what I discover in the Bible for myself
e) I believe what the Bible teaches because the Bible is its own interpreter
f) I believe what I read in the Bible, period/full stop
g) I believe what I want because the Bible can be manipulated to justify almost anything

Philippians 2:3 is an apposite verse with which to conclude this post:

Do nothing out of selfishness or out of vainglory; rather, humbly regard others as more important than yourselves.

Biblically,
Mick
:thumbsup:Gosh, these attempts to insult protestants wouldn’t be so bad if you guys had a sound understanding of scripture and theology (which sadly most posters I read on this board lack).
Hi orange_man,

I apologize if the wording of my Original Post gives you the impression that it was an attempt to insult other Protestants. I had no intention of insulting anybody. I merely wished to get some dialogue going.

Respectfully,
Mick
👍
 
Hi orange_man,

I apologize if the wording of my Original Post gives you the impression that it was an attempt to insult other Protestants. I had no intention of insulting anybody. I merely wished to get some dialogue going.

Respectfully,
Mick
👍
Well for one you got me confused you answer the questions and you insult some people,nows that work
 
Bill,
We’ve already shown that sola scriptura, properly understood, does not reject Tradition.

Jon
Does it readily accept all Tradition? And… I think sometimes denominations/individuals have their own version of Sola Scriptura. Would that be a fair statement? Could that be why SS is somewhat misunderstood.

I’m not sure I have a comprehensive grasp on SS myself. Of course, that would be no stretch, tee hee hee!

HC
 
Does it readily accept all Tradition? And… I think sometimes denominations/individuals have their own version of Sola Scriptura. Would that be a fair statement? Could that be why SS is somewhat misunderstood.

I’m not sure I have a comprehensive grasp on SS myself. Of course, that would be no stretch, tee hee hee!

HC
Hi HC
It would readily accept all Tradition that does not contradict scripture, or bind the conscience of a believer when scripture is not explicit. Ex. Marion Beliefs. So, while my Mariology is generally consistent with yours (except intercession), I would not insist that the next Lutheran hold to it.

You are right. SS has been reinvented by other denominations, faith communities since the reformation. The narrow “only-if-its-in-the-Bible” approach that denies creeds and councils and traditions of all kinds (solo scriptura) is a rather later development and I think would be quite foriegn to Luther and Melanchton.
Jon
 
Does it readily accept all Tradition? And… I think sometimes denominations/individuals have their own version of Sola Scriptura. Would that be a fair statement? Could that be why SS is somewhat misunderstood.

I’m not sure I have a comprehensive grasp on SS myself. Of course, that would be no stretch, tee hee hee!

HC
I have not been keeping up with this thread but in my opinion I think its Bible ALONE if its not in the Bible I will not believe and that is what I believe,its a false teaching,so you believe what you believe and I will believe as I do…will that work for you.==============its a false teaching start my Luther and is still false to this day…have a good week end and may Our Lord bless you,
 
I have not been keeping up with this thread but in my opinion I think its Bible ALONE if its not in the Bible I will not believe and that is what I believe,its a false teaching,so you believe what you believe and I will believe as I do…will that work for you.==============its a false teaching start my Luther and is still false to this day…have a good week end and may Our Lord bless you,
PS. I started answering a question from Jon and it got here.SORRY
 
I have not been keeping up with this thread but in my opinion I think its Bible ALONE if its not in the Bible I will not believe and that is what I believe,its a false teaching,so you believe what you believe and I will believe as I do…will that work for you.==============its a false teaching start my Luther and is still false to this day…have a good week end and may Our Lord bless you,
of course Luther taught nothing of the sort.
 
exause me but your statement is wrong , please show me why not
you’re asking me to defend a negative? You made the charge … the onous is on the proponent of an affirmative charge to prove his accusation …

Suffice it to say sola scriptura does not teach us to ignore history (nor did Luther, who was a student of many of the great theologians of Catholic history).
 
you’re asking me to defend a negative? You made the charge … the onous is on the proponent of an affirmative charge to prove his accusation …

Suffice it to say sola scriptura does not teach us to ignore history (nor did Luther, who was a student of many of the great theologians of Catholic history).
I see you like to dance and its OK,Martin Luther (1483-1546) is to be given the credit for inventing the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura (Bible Only or Bible Sufficiency). He had separated himself from the authority of the Papacy and the Magisterium, and thereby so doing lost all authority regarding Church matters. He then turned to the Bible, a book, as the sole source of authority…Have a good day and week end
 
exause me but your statement is wrong , please show me why not
Originally Posted by BILL PICK
I have not been keeping up with this thread but in my opinion I think its Bible ALONE if its not in the Bible I will not believe and that is what I believe,its a false teaching,so you believe what you believe and I will believe as I do…will that work for you.==============its a false teaching start my Luther and is still false to this day…have a good week end and may Our Lord bless you,
Here’s why not. Luther and Lutherans do not believe what I bolded in your post.

bookofconcord.org/sd-ruleandnorm.php
Since for thorough, permanent unity in the Church it is, above all things, necessary that we have a comprehensive, unanimously approved summary and form wherein is brought together from God’s Word the common doctrine, reduced to a brief compass, which the churches that are of the true Christian religion confess, just as the ancient Church always had for this use its fixed symbols; 2] moreover, since this [comprehensive form of doctrine] should not be based on private writings, but on such books as have been composed, approved, and received in the name of the churches which pledge themselves to one doctrine and religion, we have declared to one another with heart and mouth that we will not make or receive a separate or new confession of our faith, but confess the public common writings which always and everywhere were held and used as such symbols or common confessions in all the churches of the Augsburg Confession before the dissensions arose among those who accept the Augsburg Confession, and as long as in all articles there was on all sides a unanimous adherence to [and maintenance and use of] the pure doctrine of the divine Word, as the sainted Dr. Luther explained it.
3] 1. First , then, we receive and embrace with our whole heart] the Prophetic and Apostolic Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as the pure, clear fountain of Israel, which is the only true standard by which all teachers and doctrines are to be judged.
4] 2. And since of old the true Christian doctrine, in a pure, sound sense, was collected from God’s Word into brief articles or chapters against the corruption of heretics, we confess, in the second place, the three Ecumenical Creeds, namely, the Apostles’, the Nicene, and the Athanasian, as glorious confessions of the faith, brief, devout, and founded upon God’s Word, in which all the heresies which at that time had arisen in the Christian Church are clearly and unanswerably refuted.
As you can see, creeds, councils, confessions of faith are all acceptable.
Jon
 
Here’s why not. Luther and Lutherans do not believe what I bolded in your post.

bookofconcord.org/sd-ruleandnorm.php

As you can see, creeds, councils, confessions of faith are all acceptable.
Jon
Jon, Well are we going to play by the same rules,I,m talking about all denomination not just Lutherans and you are trying to tell me what Lutherans believe , lutherans are just trying to cover up what lutherans teach or what Luther was teaching, if you read about Luther he was thinging about his coming back to the Cathloic Chruch the one started by Our Lord
 
Jon, Well are we going to play by the same rules,I,m talking about all denomination not just Lutherans and you are trying to tell me what Lutherans believe , lutherans are just trying to cover up what lutherans teach or what Luther was teaching, if you read about Luther he was thinging about his coming back to the Cathloic Chruch the one started by Our Lord
Bill, when you say Luther, you’re not talking about other protestants. Many of them don’t like Luther, usually because they view him as too Catholic. Calvinists, Baptists, American evangelicals don’t base what they believe on Luther, necessarily. Luther is not responsible for all denominations. They are responsible for themselves, and some actually believe what you wrote, "if its not in the Bible I will not believe and that is what I believe", but its not what Luther taught or started or believed.

Jon
 
lutherans are just trying to cover up what lutherans teach or what Luther was teaching, if you read about Luther he was thinging about his coming back to the Cathloic Chruch the one started by Our Lord
So, what was he teaching that had him thinking of reverting? Is that what we’re covering up, his teachings that were really Catholic?

Jon
 
Bill, when you say Luther, you’re not talking about other protestants. Many of them don’t like Luther, usually because they view him as too Catholic. Calvinists, Baptists, American evangelicals don’t base what they believe on Luther, necessarily. Luther is not responsible for all denominations. They are responsible for themselves, and some actually believe what you wrote, "if its not in the Bible I will not believe and that is what I believe", but its not what Luther taught or started or believed.

Jon
I read in a book about Luther I do not have the book I give it to a person in RCIA and I believe I read in on other Cathloic site. DId you read the thread about luther on these froums a few days ago… I really dont care who statred the teaching of SS it is still wrong.Have agood day,peace…
 
I read in a book about Luther I do not have the book I give it to a person in RCIA and I believe I read in on other Cathloic site. DId you read the thread about luther on these froums a few days ago… I really dont care who statred the teaching of SS it is still wrong.Have agood day,peace…
Thanks, Bill. May His peace be with you, as well.

Jon
 
Is there actually a “correct” understanding of Sola Scriptura?🤷

So what’s your understanding of the Reformation doctrine of Sola Scriptura?

Philippians 2:3 is an apposite verse with which to conclude this post:

Do nothing out of selfishness or out of vainglory; rather, humbly regard others as more important than yourselves.
QUOTE]

Hi SSTeacher !

Hoping it’s not too late to join, here are my :twocents:

Q1) I don’t know. In order to assess the correctness of a specific Sola Scriptura understanding rather than the other ones, there should be a shared criterion to judge such a correctness within the Sola Scriptura camp, and I ignore how that could be settled.

Q2)
Sorry this is going to be longer. 🙂

Here is how I tried to figure out what the common kernel among Sola Scriptura definitions appears to be.

I wonder whether the doctrine of the “perspicuity of Scripture” is considered by protestant posters as an essential part of the doctrine of SS. Well, after all, Scripture should be understood to get what we need from it. But what is exactly considered as “perspicuity” ?

Recently i have followed more or less this line of thought about this puzzling issue.

I started asking myself:
"Why had the Catholic Church, in a protestant view, not been understanding that Bible which she would deliver to the reformers - which in a protestant view is perspicuous - for more than a millennium ?

I supposed this could have something to do with the origin of the doctrine of the “perspicuity of Scripture”.
My exploration came up like this:

STEP 1 Let’s say in XVI (or VI for that matter ) century western Europe I come to believe and propound a doctrine, or a whole doctrinary vision, which is at odds with catholic teaching.

STEP 2. I maintain and preach that my doctrine is rooted in Scripture ( and possibly has some alleged precedents in the fathers). This is quite necessary IMHO to my position, in order to be able to answer the obvious question: “How do you know, and, more specifically, how do you know better than the Church ?”

STEP 3 I then necessarily conclude that you can understand Scripture outside the CONtext of the living Tradition of the Church and of her teaching. This amounts to the fact that, at this point, I have become a champion of the “perspicuity of Scripture”.

STEP 4 Now I start teaching that you have to approach Scripture outside and against the Catholic Church, thus beginning to set a new CONtext, albeit just a negative one.
Let’s note that this further step is again necessary IMHO, if I want people to come to share my doctrine of which in STEP 1.

STEP 5 A new positive CONtext to properly read or hear Scripture is proposed by myself or by my successors.

It is so in STEP 3 that I propose the “perspicuity of Scripture”, by preaching that it is so clear that it does not need the CONtext of the living Tradition and the magisterium of the Church.
In STEP 4, nevertheless, I do put a first constraint of mine, which, let’s repeat, is necessary from my point of view in order to get it right in STEP 1, which is the origin of the whole matter.

Thus, STEP 4 is somehow common to any body which comes directly or indirectly from the Reformation.
We can consider it a common kernel of the prescriptions on the “perspicuity of Scripture”.

STEP 5, on the contrary, which is the positive part of the “new CONtext” is where the variety of definitions and prescriptions come up.

With a range from the most “individualistic-minded” wing to the most “corporate-minded” one.

On the “corporate-minded” part of the range of the “perspicuities of Scripture”, we have a new CONtext which is essentially constituted by the traditions and teachings peculiar to a particular religious body, son or grandson of the Reformation. Paying of course due lip service to the individual reading and to a self-declaration of fallibility by the authorities within that body.

In other words this version says something like:

"Scripture is so perspicuous that you can, ( indeed you have to) understand it outside the CONtext of the catholic tradition and teaching ( "“Sacred Tradition and Magisterium”, as roman catholics would say). . That is by no means to be caricatured so as to say that we believe Scripture is so perspicuous that you can properly understand it without the CONtext …of the teaching of our own religious body
( community).
"

The “individualistic-minded” wing would instead say something like:

Listen to no earthly teacher. Trust no man. Just read Scripture cover to cover, listening to the Holy Spirit, and anything essential will be clear

To which, considerations as the following ones can be replied:
  1. This is the illusion of “a-contextuality” ( minding: "no formal explanation = no CONtext ). But how can an a-contextual reading exist ? ( not to say that I would trust an earthly teaching by accepting the above mentioned invitation to read by myself cover to cover )
  2. Do I really really enjoy a heavenly guide and, above all, listen to it the right way ?
    How can I know that, and therefore whether I did get sound interpretations, particularly in view of the different and stubborn conclusions by other brothers of mine, who claim precisely the same method and to listen to the same divine assistance ? Shall I say that “they are unable to listen to the Holy Spirit”, or “they are far from sharing my maturity” ( note here the inclusion, quite frequent, of the concept of maturity), or something even worse ?
But, if I cannot know whether my interpretations are precisely those happening to be right, where is perspicuity ?

So, in a sense, I got an answer to my initial question, and therefore Question2 in the OP…

The Catholic Church had not understood a perspicuous Scripture for over a millennium before Reformation, because the doctrine of perspicuity, in its common kernel, and therefore Sola Scriptura states precisely… (implicitly) that Scripture has to be approached outside the Catholic Church.”

The puzzling fact remains, that it is a substantially different thing
saying that I (just I) am able to rebuild the whole of Christianity ( what matters in it, anyway) by a simple (“cover to cover” ?) reading of the sacred text, and saying this is more or less a caricature, and that I need after all the ministry of the XY denomination, producing tons of sermons and commentaries.( mind yourself, just the XY, not the YZ, whose ministries could lead you a little astray ). It appears then, there are at least two “perspicuities” ( or, better, two principles of perspicuity) out there, producing any sort of mix between them.

Best wishes.
 
I have not been keeping up with this thread but in my opinion I think its Bible ALONE if its not in the Bible I will not believe and that is what I believe,its a false teaching,so you believe what you believe and I will believe as I do…will that work for you.==============its a false teaching start my Luther and is still false to this day…have a good week end and may Our Lord bless you,
Interesting to note that the men of the Church who choose the canon you call the Bible - decided what was public revelation and what was private.
They also wanted to include Pope Clement 1 for the canon - but decided that they should put in the Gospels and the Apostolic Epistles for all the Churches to read in the Churches.

Which was the idea of the Bible.

And you adhere to the ‘public revelation’ being closed I assume, and so you should realise that is Tradition and no where in scriptures do they say their successors couldnt also be part of the Church’s writings - and so if you could show me where public revelation and private revelation are seperate in scriptures, then you could proove that Tradition would be moot point.

Other Gospels and strange doctrines apparently didnt occur in the Church [because oral Tradition kept it intact] or the Bible could be considered a tainted version of men’s ideas as to it being scriptures.

See?
 
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