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jellomania
Guest
just looking for clarification here… what do you mean by biological?
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Lycorth
Guest
The clothes we wear are part of our actions, are they not?
You’re right - God will look more on what’s in our hearts rather than how we dress. But, what’s in our hearts naturally affects how we live, including how we dress. A woman wouldn’t turn up for Mass dressed like a hooker if her heart is filled with the Spirit; even if she’s devout, why would she not dress in a way to show it?
If someone can’t afford nice clothes for church, that’s one thing. If someone is able to dress nicely and respectfully but chooses not to or does not care about the fact that he or she is in the house of the Lord where He is present in the Blessed Sacrament, that’s quite another, and oftentimes reflects a deeper level of carelessness and irreverence towards the Lord.
Discipline in various areas of life helps to encourage growth in those areas. If we think church is that important that we’d actually want to dress as nicely as is in our means to do so, then it behooves us to do so. If church is just a meeting place where we “fellowship” with other people and God will have to accept us because we think He should, that’s quite another. It’s not to be wondered at that when people cared enough to dress nicely for Mass that the Faith was practiced more openly and Catholic culture was a noble and rich thing.
Faith without works is dead.
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jimpres
Guest
Good for you. If you had an audience with the Pope you would dress more formally. So dressing for God should be more respectful.
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BlueSapphire
Guest
Jesus on the Pharisees.
For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness (Matthew 23:25-28 NKJV).
For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness (Matthew 23:25-28 NKJV).
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Student09
Guest
The solution to this is to clean the inside, not to dirty the outside. The belief that matter is bad and should be ignored or repudiated, and that material things do not matter and have no bearing on spiritual things, is called Manicheanism and is a heresy.
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Padraig1972
Guest
Well then, i have got myself a dress and decent shoes now. Problem solved, but interesting to read this discussion anyway.
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Springkeeper
Guest
Matthew 22:11-13 (NAB)
"But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment. He said to him, ‘My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?’ But he was reduced to silence. Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ "
Also, just as a side note:
2 Samuel 12:20 “Rising from the ground, David washed and anointed himself, and changed his clothes. Then he went to the house of the LORD and worshiped.”
Genesis 35:2-3 "So Jacob told his family and all the others who were with him: “Get rid of the foreign gods that you have among you; then purify yourselves and put on fresh clothes. We are now to go up to Bethel, and I will build an altar there to the God who answered me in my hour of distress and who has been with me wherever I have gone.”
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giuseppeTO
Guest
In the verse from St. Matthew, the reference to clothes is an allegory to the state of the soul meaning that if you appear before the King at the Final Judgment and your soul is not clothed in sanctifying grace, you will be cast into the darkness of hell.
As far as clothing for Mass, the Code of Canon Law dealt with church attire in the 1917 Code and I do not believe that these were abrogated in the 1983 Code.
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Springkeeper
Guest
I am also in the process of converting as well. I have been to several weekday masses and always just wore whatever I was wearing that day (which for me is a past knee length skirt and a blouse or polo shirt.). I also wear some sort of headcovering in church no matter what day of the week it is (1 Cor 11).
Last Sunday I finally attended Sunday mass and I was concerned I was going to be too conservative (cape dress or long skirt and blouse with headcovering). Lo and behold I got out of the car and a woman next to me got out of her car at the same time. She looked over and seemed startled at my appearance and started tugging at her miniskirt. I looked her in the eyes, gave her a broad smile and asked if she was the marathoner (she had a 26.2 sticker on her car). She quickly smiled back and things went well from there. My advice is to dress “middle-of-the-road” and wear a
and you’ll do fine.
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Miserys_Fence
Guest
Because several posters have used this as a comparison…has the Pope ever actually SAID “you must wear a suit and tie/dress and panty hose to come visit me?” Has any president ever said it?
Call me an oddball, but I have never in my life equated “respect” with “wearing certain clothes.” To me, respect is loving and really listening and absorbing the wisdom of someone wiser and more experienced–which can be done no matter what you wear.
The 2 people living on this Earth that I respect the most–my parents–rarely ever see me in anything but jeans. And they have yet to complain.
Miz
Call me an oddball, but I have never in my life equated “respect” with “wearing certain clothes.” To me, respect is loving and really listening and absorbing the wisdom of someone wiser and more experienced–which can be done no matter what you wear.
The 2 people living on this Earth that I respect the most–my parents–rarely ever see me in anything but jeans. And they have yet to complain.
Miz
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Springkeeper
Guest
Quite right-I was answering Eiram’s question.
I think this sign outside of St. Peter’s sums up the dress code quite nicely:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Springkeeper
Guest
"The U.S. Embassy to the Holy See has a Vatican protocol primer that walks people through what is considered the proper dress code.
For men: black or dark suit, aka business attire, with a dark tie.
For women: black skirt or dress that reaches at least the knees, black top with mid- to long-sleeves, no pants, simple jewelry, dark closed-toe shoes, and a black hat or veil is optional."
Nothing about panty hose.
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Onegin
Guest
To me the whole issue is absurdly simple:
If you honestly and truly believe that, when you go to Mass, Christ is truly and completely present AT MASS in the Most Holy Eucharist, then you will dress appropriately. It will be second nature, like genuflecting, kneeling during the Consecration or any other outward sign we adopt to show our reverence and respect for what is going on at Mass.
Anything else just shows a lack of respect and, ultimately, a lack of real understanding of what the Mass is.
If you honestly and truly believe that, when you go to Mass, Christ is truly and completely present AT MASS in the Most Holy Eucharist, then you will dress appropriately. It will be second nature, like genuflecting, kneeling during the Consecration or any other outward sign we adopt to show our reverence and respect for what is going on at Mass.
Anything else just shows a lack of respect and, ultimately, a lack of real understanding of what the Mass is.
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mick321
Guest
Indeed, Jesus knew the hearts of the Pharisees, as he knows ours.
The obvious question is, why would one with a properly reverent internal disposition wish to conceal it under a veneer irreverence? Whether it is to establish a trend or follow an existing one is immaterial. An external demonstration of irreverence in Mass is not a harmless expression of one’s individuality. It sets a bad example and has a corrosive effect on young Catholics and new convert alike.
Can someone please explain why this practice of claiming internal virtue - while pushing the limits of public impiety - has become a touchstone of modernist Catholicism? What are you trying to prove? And to whom?
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joedecarlo
Guest
You don’t show the Lord respect by showing your midriff or wearing shorts to mass. You shouldn’t have to be told to wear proper clothing to mass. But these generations of today need to be told what is proper, because they don’t get told what is proper at home.Because several posters have used this as a comparison…has the Pope ever actually SAID “you must wear a suit and tie/dress and panty hose to come visit me?” Has any president ever said it?
Call me an oddball, but I have never in my life equated “respect” with “wearing certain clothes.” To me, respect is loving and really listening and absorbing the wisdom of someone wiser and more experienced–which can be done no matter what you wear.
The 2 people living on this Earth that I respect the most–my parents–rarely ever see me in anything but jeans. And they have yet to complain.
Miz
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joedecarlo
Guest
bravo!!!
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rapunzel77
Guest
The best thing to do is to use common sense. Since going to Mass is not the same as going to the beach then the clothes should fit the setting. For men, it could be a pair of slacks with a polo shirt or a nice button down shirt. They can wear suits as well but if someone can’t afford one then that is fine too. As for as jeans, it is a terrible mortal sin if you dress in them as long as they are clean, not ripped and pair it with a nice shirt, that should be fine.
As for as ladies, wear a skirt that goes below the knee and not to tight. The blouses shouldn’t be revealing, etc. Again, use common sense. I frequently wear long skirts, usually peasant/bohemian style and blouses that have some embellishment or flutter sleeves, etc. Sometimes, the sleeves are short which is fine because I live in a hot climate. The only real dress prohibitions would be shorts, mini-skirts, tank tops, etc. Other than that, there is a lot of freedom.
As for as ladies, wear a skirt that goes below the knee and not to tight. The blouses shouldn’t be revealing, etc. Again, use common sense. I frequently wear long skirts, usually peasant/bohemian style and blouses that have some embellishment or flutter sleeves, etc. Sometimes, the sleeves are short which is fine because I live in a hot climate. The only real dress prohibitions would be shorts, mini-skirts, tank tops, etc. Other than that, there is a lot of freedom.
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sparkletina
Guest
In my large-city suburban church on Sundays, we have the spectacle of women lectors & Extraordinary Ministers of Eucharist who were such tight, slinky & low-cut clothing, leaving nothing to the imagination. Male lectors are usually in suits, but the male EOM’s sometimes show up in T-shirts with the most outrageous sayings on them, front & back! And I am not talking about university logos here! No respect at all for the Real Presence. We have spoken to the pastor about all this, and it is just ignored. Not a problem for him, obviously.
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vhassessian
Guest
I encourage you to do what you feel God wants you to do. In her wisdom, the Church has not insisted that women cover their heads but have allowed them to do so if they choose. Most churches nowdays, except for the Tridentine, are filled with women who have chosen not to wear a covering. We should not judge each other as to one’s choice to cover or not to cover.
However, if one chooses to cover, it is a beautiful tradition that goes back to the beginnings of the Church. When I came into the Church in 2008, I was only one of two women that chose to cover our heads. Now there are a growing number who do so. It is a private decision, and one that is fully endorsed by Scripture. May God bless you as you seek His will for you.
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Bob_Aliano
Guest
I think there are probably two main reasons we “fight” over everything:People just get that way … it’s unfortunate that we feel we have to fight over everything, but don’t worry too much about it. Anyway, I have never been to a church with a dress code, but my pastor periodically makes comments about how women should dress modestly, and is more or less ignored. Maybe a few people change their way of dressing because of his admonitions, I don’t know. Regarding your other question, I am a woman and I wear a hat to Mass, but it is not required.
Congratulations on your conversion!
What was once taught as expected behavior is no longer being taught either at home or in church;
Since the advent of VII there has been a relaxing of customs and codes so there is now considerable confusion over what is proper and little clarification has come forth from our teachers and shepherds, the Bishops.
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