R
- Status
S
stinkcat_14
Guest
Once again, I think you are confusing modesty which nobody disputes with other questions. There is nothing inherent in denim that makes it unfit to wear to mass. Assuming that it is modest it is perfectly reasonable.
A
atassina
Guest
good news. i think we can generate some principles for modesty.
Principle one:
That which should remain hidden remains hidden.
Principle one:
That which should remain hidden remains hidden.
O
ohioszo
Guest
I agree with the poster after you who mentions respect. The fellow in the picture, obviously, can afford a variety of clothing. He wouldn’t wear the outfit in the photo to Mass. Can you ask him? I’m virtually certain that he is dressed for a casual date.
W
white_sheep
Guest
There was no poster after me who mentioned respect. I can’t tell if he can afford to eat tonight, much less a variety of clothing. How do you know he wouldn’t wear it to Mass? A casual date? Where on earth did you come up with that?
T
tfraley110
Guest
My family and I are recent converts and as soon as we began attending mass, one of the things I was very surprised at was, the way people were dressed. I don’t claim to be any type of theologist, so if what I believe is contrary to scripture or Catholic doctrine, please forgive me, but my belief is that every Sunday when I go to mass, I am going to see God. I want us all to be dressed in the best we have, whatever that is as a sign of respect. I try not to notice other peoples clothes because I realize I might not really know their situation. Everyone’s “best” is different. But there are certainly people who I know are definately not dressed in their best or who are in extremely tight or short or revealing clothes. I try to think of it like this to help me focus on the service and not be distracted by those thoughts: Even in our beautiful parish, the devil is at work doing whatever he can to distract us from the real reason we are there. I pray that God will bless those people and that he will give me strength not to notice them and if they are wrong, he will show them their fault, because I know it is not my place to. As last weeks message said, Love your neighbor as your self. Just pray for them. And by doing so, hopefully it will strengthen my faith.
L
Lycorth
Guest
Amen. We live in a democratic age, where every human being thinks his or her opinions are the final authority in everything.
This goes way beyond mere modesty and into propriety and further into the mentality of modern people versus the mentality of efficacious customs and attitudes, which developed organically in culturally nobler times and contributed to the edification of millions of individuals and the culture they created.
S
stinkcat_14
Guest
Some have the mentality that there is no correlation between manner of dress and reverence and respect. What evidence do you have beyond your own opinion that this mentality is wrong. The only evidence that people have against jeans is that they don’t like them. There is no objective evidence that jeans are inappropriate for mass.
O
Onegin
Guest
Thank you, this exactly sums up the problem.
Our outward deportment reflects our inner state. As I said earlier, it isn’t a fashion show but an outward sign or respect that reflects the interior state. Additionally, dressing up is usually (typically) less comfortable which means that it also involves a sacrifice on our part to do something less comfortable. As one very wise Priest once put it, it is a way of taking tiny steps to bring our actions into conformity with our will. In a sense, it is a minor way of mortification through going outside our comfort zone.
The truth of the matter is that as our culture grows richer, our dressing grows sloppier. There’s no correlation between wealth and dressing nicely - you don’t need one to have the other. In fact the opposite has been shown to be true - in poorer countries, people tend to dress better. (Here’s a good article from the telegraph for more on this subject: telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/3561138/Now-we-can-afford-decent-clothes-why-do-we-not-wear-them.html).
The bottom line is that our culture has chosen comfort over looking nice and is hellbent and determined to fight for this “right” to look sloppy and casual with tooth and nail.
As Catholics, aren’t we called to be counter-culture? If so, step to it! This Sunday, why not don the skirt, tie the tie and leave the jeans at home for a day? Think of it not only as a outwardly reverent act but also a way to reclaim our culture from it’s slovenly decline.
L
Lycorth
Guest
The evidence is there for anyone to see; jeans are common clothes, worn for work and for play. Therefore, they are not special enough for that most special of times of our week - Mass.
It has nothing to do with not liking jeans, as I wear jeans all week long otherwise. It has everything to do with dressing outwardly in order to reflect our internal disposition (as Onegin might put it) and giving our best to God for one measly hour per week.
I dress in jeans and t-shirts all week long. Heck, I rarely wear t-shirts; usually I wear sleeveless shirts or tank tops, to be cooler, to display my tattoo work, to project a certain image. However, at Mass, all that gets set aside for the sheer sake of glorifying God through a certain manner of dress and deportment. The ink doesn’t need to be displayed in church, the muscles don’t have to be shown off in church, the usual tough guy image doesn’t need to be displayed in church - but my deep desire to worship God and show Him all the reverence I can while I am in His house and in His presence does.
That’s the difference.
S
stinkcat_14
Guest
Say’s who? That is, other than your own opinion, where does the church proclaim that jeans are inappropriate to wear to mass?
S
Springkeeper
Guest
I read in a very old book (“The Complete Home”-1879), that dressing with dignity and decency is a sign of charity. I have seen the faces of others just light up at the sight of my little girls in their pretty and modest dresses and if for that reason alone it would be worth the effort to sew their clothes and get them dressed up. One lady last Sunday was so thrilled at my simple outfit and headcovering I was actually embarrassed. I also kind of figure that the Priest/Pastor shows up in his “Sunday best” so I like to show that I respect him and honor his service as well as the Lord’s house. Who knows, maybe it’s just my Grandmother’s strong influence in my life.Thank you, this exactly sums up the problem.
Our outward deportment reflects our inner state. As I said earlier, it isn’t a fashion show but an outward sign or respect that reflects the interior state. Additionally, dressing up is usually (typically) less comfortable which means that it also involves a sacrifice on our part to do something less comfortable. As one very wise Priest once put it, it is a way of taking tiny steps to bring our actions into conformity with our will. In a sense, it is a minor way of mortification through going outside our comfort zone.
The truth of the matter is that as our culture grows richer, our dressing grows sloppier. There’s no correlation between wealth and dressing nicely - you don’t need one to have the other. In fact the opposite has been shown to be true - in poorer countries, people tend to dress better. (Here’s a good article from the telegraph for more on this subject: telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/3561138/Now-we-can-afford-decent-clothes-why-do-we-not-wear-them.html).
The bottom line is that our culture has chosen comfort over looking nice and is hellbent and determined to fight for this “right” to look sloppy and casual with tooth and nail.
As Catholics, aren’t we called to be counter-culture? If so, step to it! This Sunday, why not don the skirt, tie the tie and leave the jeans at home for a day? Think of it not only as a outwardly reverent act but also a way to reclaim our culture from it’s slovenly decline.
R
Robert_Burns
Guest
Some Churches have the following guidlines.
WOMEN AND GIRLS:
Out of respect for the Blessed Sacrament, we ask that women and girls cover their heads with either a hat or chapel veil. (Chapel veils may be borrowed from the table next to the church door or may be purchased downstairs in the book store.) Modest dress is required. Short skirts or dresses that are above the knees, revealing blouses (such as low cut, sleeveless or see-through), and slacks or shorts of any length do not meet the traditional norms of Christian modesty. Should your situation require you to wear pants, please speak to the priest.
MEN AND BOYS:
Men and boys must wear neat trousers and dress shirts (either long or short sleeves). A suit, sport coat or dress sweater and tie are optional. Closed shoes must be worn (i.e. sandals and flip flops are inappropriate). Shorts, immodestly open shirts, T-shirts and other such casual dress are inappropriate and do not meet the traditional standards for attending Holy Mass.
The only exception to not wearing casual clothing is if you are immediately coming from or going to work and your work requires you to dress in such a manner. However, immodest work clothing is still inappropriate.
Please be advised that Father reserves the right to refuse Holy Communion to anyone who, in his prudent judgment, is not dressed appropriately.
Does anyone here think this is overly harsh? If So , Why?
S
stinkcat_14
Guest
If my pastor put out these guidelines, I would first have a talk with him and second if that got nowhere I would go further and complain to the Bishop. First of all, the veil or headcovering is not a requirement of the universal church and so for a pastor to require that would be similar to a liturgical innovation. Second, the idea that women should have permission of the priest to wear pants is incredibly offensive. There is nothing wrong with women wearing pants, assuming that they are modest.
M
MarkThompson
Guest
No, zero churches have the those guidelines. You’ve cut and pasted from the website of one privately-owned shrine. My Googling hasn’t yet been able to discern whether they’re in or out of communion with the Catholic Church. I think the latter.
L
Lycorth
Guest
Says me; it’s practically self-evident that jeans are common clothes and therefore are not special or “formal”. Frankly, says anyone who doesn’t presume that his opinion is the final authority.
If it’s the best one can afford or make-do with, then that’s one thing. But for general use by those who can afford better, common sense dictates that jeans are not as nice or as formal as “dressier” clothes. Again, if you wouldn’t wear it to meet a dignitary, why wear it to meet our Lord? Centuries of traditional Western thought, the sum of those efficacious cultural practices and attitudes which have honed each generation’s barbarians into nobles whenever it is assented to, have taught us that the types of clothes we wear everyday and casually are not as fitting for special occasions as more formal wear. If Mass is not special, then what is?
Unless there is something all-encompassing that I am not aware of, the Church hasn’t legislated on the matter because it’s relatively recent, and because there are far worse problems in the Church, which, coupled with the burden of governance of a worldwide religion, gets the matter of dress at Mass pushed to the back burner.
R
Robert_Burns
Guest
You are right. I did so in order to see what answers I would get. Not to be Judgemental. Nor did I say I agreed with them.
P
paperwight
Guest
You were not being truthful Robert. Can’t you see that?
R
Robert_Burns
Guest
And let me add that just as some people are quick to tell everyone what is “appropriate” today or “allowed” today - so too were the same things not allowed a few years ago. Keep in mind - things that have changed over time will continue to change over time and if enough people get tired of things being a certain way they will complain and if enough of them complain maybe what I posted may be the norm some day. I think that point hasnt been fully explored. So keep an open mind. Why? Because tomorrow is a new day isnt it. Returning the Church to a more formal Church may be what the Babies born today require in 30 years when they are being ordained , GOD willing. Our Church is Eternal.
S
stinkcat_14
Guest
Because dignitaries are petty, sinful creatures. They might actually be offended by our appearance. There is no evidence that God cares about our dress.
- Status