What about Freemasonry is "dangerous"?

[PSUCath]

Here’s where I am in my understanding now: I know that Freemasonry promotes both deism and religious indifference, concepts that do not align with Catholic teaching. I’m also aware that a Catholic who joins a Lodge is in a state of grave sin and should not receive the Eucharist.

What I don’t understand is the claims that Freemasonry is dangerous. To make a jump from “Freemasons are wrong” to “Freemasons are dangerous” is a huge stretch. I watched the documentary “FBI: Freemasonry” by Church Militant, and I think they did a great job of explaining who the Masons are, but they lost me when they began to say that the Masons want to take down the Church without providing any evidence. They also claimed that the Masons were responsible for the French Revolution and Bolshevik Revolution, but provided no basis for this. Link here:

My question is simple: what EXACTLY is it about Freemasonry is intrinsically dangerous (not doctrinally inconsistent – dangerous) to the Catholic Church?

 

[Montrose]

My question is simple: what EXACTLY is it about Freemasonry is intrinsically dangerous (not doctrinally inconsistent – dangerous) to the Catholic Church?

Historically, one of the main aims of Freemasonry is the destruction of the Catholic Church.

 

[PSUCath]

Historically, one of the main aims of Freemasonry is the destruction of the Catholic Church.

If you could provide evidence of this that I could read, that would be great. I’m just confused how specifically the Freemasons have tried to take down the Church. Again, I understand that their positions of deism and religious indifference are contrary to Church teaching, but an opposing opinion is not dangerous in and of itself.

 

[Bithynian]

what EXACTLY is it about Freemasonry is intrinsically dangerous

Historically, most expressions of continental European Freemasonry were highly anti-clerical. This is largely because of the intellectual movements in which they existed: liberal (in the 19th century sense), and secular of the peculiar French laicite variety that favoured a radical disestablishment of the Church and its disenfranchisement from whatever rights and privileges it was historically accorded.

I’m not all that gung ho on conspiratorial paranoia about Freemasonry being the secret architect of all the Church’s misfortunes. At the same time, I think it’s evident on some level that both have often collided with one another (sometimes quite violently) due to their radically opposed understandings of the world. But I’m not sure if it could be said that Freemasonry was some sort of centralised campaign against the Church. In most cases, historians tend to note that X statesman attended Y lodge and perhaps the exchange of ideas in a Freemason setting was formative in the development of his later anti-Catholic policies.

 

[Montrose]

If you could provide evidence of this that I could read, that would be great. I’m just confused how specifically the Freemasons have tried to take down the Church. Again, I understand that their positions of deism and religious indifference are contrary to Church teaching, but an opposing opinion is not dangerous in and of itself.

http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-x...nts/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus.html

 

[on_the_hill]

TL;DR

Is there an explanation that is simple enough for me to digest in a sleepy Saturday afternoon? It’s either that or I’ll go back to playing Wordscapes and assume there’s really nothing wrong with Masons other than some arcane philosophical complaints about the Enlightenment.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Freemasonry worships Lucifer. That’s from the official book of Freemasonry Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike.

A Catholic man who values his eternal salvation will avoid Freemasonry like the plague or get out of it if he is unfortunately in it.

This is really good:

https://www.tanbooks.com/behind-the-lodge-door-the-church-state-and-freemasonry-in-america-2699.html

 

[Tis_Bearself]

They also claimed that the Masons were responsible for the French Revolution and Bolshevik Revolution, but provided no basis for this.

The Masons did a huge amount of anti-clerical stuff in Europe, and a lesser amount, but some, in the USA. If you read a few books and Wiki articles you’ll find plenty on this. In some places they were akin to an anti-Catholic hate group. Several Popes recognized this. I believe it was St. Maximilian Kolbe who, as a child, witnessed large Masonic demonstrations against the Church.

Really, this is History 101. You should be able to look it up.

Again, I understand that their positions of deism and religious indifference are contrary to Church teaching,

Their behavior and activities went WAY beyond this. It was more like the KKK than a bunch of educated think tank guys drinking tea in a salon expressing an opinion different from that of the Church.

 

[Vico]

…
My question is simple: what EXACTLY is it about Freemasonry is intrinsically dangerous (not doctrinally inconsistent – dangerous) to the Catholic Church?

Catholic Encylopedia, surmised from statements of Pope Clement XII (Constitution “In Eminenti”, 28 April, 1738):

The danger which such societies involve for the security and “tranquility of the State” and for “the spiritual health of souls”, and consequently their incompatibility with civil and canonical law.

Also from the Catholic Enclopedia:

The question is, whether Freemasons respect a lawful Government in their own and other countries, when it is not inspired by Masonic principles. In this respect both English and American Freemasons, by their principles and conduct, provoke the condemnatory verdict of enlightened and impartial public opinion. We have already above hinted at the whimsical Article II of the “Old Charges”, calculated to encourage rebellion against Governments which are not according to the wishes of Freemasonry.

Gruber, H. (1910). Masonry (Freemasonry). In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm

 

[PSUCath]

Really, this is History 101. You should be able to look it up.

I did.

The idea that freemasonry or freemasons ‘caused’ the French Revolution, whether by hatching plots that exploded into any of the sequences of the events to which we give that name, or by being the unconscious instruments of more obscure plotters working throughthe machinery of the lodges, has long been set aside by professional historians. – The Origins of a Mythology: Freemasons, Protestants and the French Revolution by J. M. ROBERTS

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This Wiki article on Pope Leo XIII’s Humanum genus contains a whole list of Papal pronouncements about the evils and dangers of the Masons. Happy reading.

Humanum genus - Wikipedia

 

[PSUCath]

Their behavior and activities went WAY beyond this.

Such as how? By no means do I want to defend the Masons, but Catholics need specifics to have a truly educated opinion on this topic.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Not to be rude, but I hope you read more than one book to get a full set of perspectives.

Bithynian also gave you a good answer.

Catholics need specifics to have a truly educated opinion on this topic.

It’s the responsibility of Catholics with the ability to educate themselves to do so. Others should not have to explain every little point.

The sheer number of Popes right up to the rather tolerant JPII who have spoken out pretty vehemently against the Masons should indicate that something serious is going on with them. It seems like you are being willfully blind to that point.

 

[PSUCath]

Not to be rude, but I hope you read more than one book to get a full set of perspectives.

I don’t think you’re being rude at all. I have read plenty of articles by Catholics, Freemasons, and folks not associated with either group. It’s just that I’m seeing more evidence that this is a harmless fraternity with a backwards idea of God than a dangerous hate organization.

 

[otjm]

but an opposing opinion is not dangerous in and of itself.

One can hve opposing opinions on a large range of issues. The Freemasons have done a great deal of eleemosynary work, which often is what draws people to them. People are drawn to “organizations” in a desire also for fellowship.

There are many, many organizations which do eleemosynary work and do it quite well, and do not have as part of their foundation and structure either a subtle or outright anti-Catholic position.

Pretty much your questions have been answered. With such a multiple of opportunities available, if your question is based on your desire to join a group, either for fellowship or for their charitable work - or both - then you are very well advised to follow the lead of the Catholic Church and avoid the various subsets of the Freemasons and join another group.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Actually, small-town, garden-variety American Freemasonry probably isn’t “dangerous”. It’s quite a different critter from its European counterpart. Nonetheless, it is a latitudinarian “quasi-religion”, and there are all kinds of rumors about disturbing forms of “worship” that go on at its higher levels, rumors that they really can’t disprove — how do you prove a negative? The “vibe” I have gotten is that they would be okay with Catholicism, if we would just say that we are one of many religions, no better or no worse than any others, and that we would keep our own ideas and opinions to ourselves, and not try to get other people to believe them — in other words, be like the Druze or the Zoroastrians.

It is also the “magic key” to entry into some professions and influential circles — not that all Freemasons are received into these circles, many Freemasons are just everyday, shlubby working-class guys, but it is almost a sine qua non for entry into those circles. If you’ve ever hobnobbed in the circles of small-town “movers and shakers” — and I have — there’s a certain “something” you could cut with a knife, it’s that thick, I really can’t describe it but I know it when I experience it, and if it’s not Masonic per se, it is definitely compatible with Freemasonry.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s just that I’m seeing more evidence that this is a harmless fraternity with a backwards idea of God than a dangerous hate organization.

Are you from USA? (PSU = Penn State U?) Because in USA, Masons for the last 50 or so years are like the friendly guys running the BBQ booth at the street fair and raising money for charity. Like the non-Catholic version of the KoC. Or like the joke lodge on cartoons like the Flintstones and Simpsons.

In Europe, Masonry was more associated with overthrow of governments, with fomenting revolutions in various countries that often persecuted Catholics and their clergy, and with occult practices.

 

[PSUCath]

Bithynian also gave you a good answer.

I thought he gave a good answer too, but what he said isn’t lining up with what you’re saying.

But I’m not sure if it could be said that Freemasonry was some sort of centralised campaign against the Church

The sheer number of Popes right up to the rather tolerant JPII who have spoken out pretty vehemently against the Masons should indicate that something serious is going on with them

Those are two very different takes.

 

[Bithynian]

It’s just that I’m seeing more evidence that this is a harmless fraternity with a backwards idea of God than a dangerous hate organization.

English language literature on Freemasonry - whether written by Freemasons or others - tends to be more subdued as Anglo-American expressions of it have historically been less anti-clerical and anti-Catholic than Continental European forms. Many Church of England bishops, for example, were Freemasons and it never particularly aroused any suspicion (until quite recently).

 

[PSUCath]

Pretty much your questions have been answered.

I disagree. My simple question is what makes them DANGEROUS, not wrong. I know why they’re wrong. You answered why they’re wrong. Wrong does not mean dangerous.