Easy. It’s too Catholic.Why don’t you honor Mary if you claim to be Christian and in some cases boldly claim Bible believing Christian?
I’m going to sound harsh here but why would the Church need to correct something which isn’t broken or wrong? How are we excessive in our devotion to Mary? I’ll be the first to say that we honor Mary not simply because we ask Her to pray to God but because She is totally lovable and deserving to be honored. If all the people in the world were to shout Hail Mary full of grace and give Her hon or after honor, it still wouldn’t be enough.It’s probably because some Catholics are excessive with their devotion to Mary, and the Church as a whole (at least apparently) doesn’t do anything to correct such practices.
The Orthodox are much less effusive, and while they clearly have devotion to the Virgin Mary, everything they do with regards to her obviously points directly to the incarnation of Christ.
Too Catholic for them!Easy. It’s too Catholic.
To a certain extent you’re right. Absolutely so with fundamentalists; less so with other Protestants. The problem is that Catholics and Protestants hold very different views of Mary. Catholics regard her as the perfect ever-virgin Mother of God who was assumed into Heaven and reigns as Queen over saints and angels. Protestants see her as the earthly mother of Jesus who gave birth to Him as a virgin but later had other children. Although Mary was virtuous enough to find favor with God, she was not free from sin. She lived and died like all ther rest of us and will no doubt be in Heaven but will have no greater rank than the rest of us. They also believe the “real” Mary would be much saddened by all the veneration and attention. Cf. Revelation 22:8-9. I said “**would be **much saddened” because they don’t believe Mary or any other dead person can see what is going on here on earth.Why do Protestants reject Mary? Because Catholics venerate her. Except for a few, Protestants reject everything Catholic. Except the New Testament. But most of them don’t know that the NT consists of 27 of the Catholic Church’s own writings. Pity.
Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
Jesus, while in his ministry in Israel, never told anyone to go to his mother for anything. He said … My mother and brothers and sisters are these that hear and obey my words and follow me.What Orthodox see has ZIP to do with what Catholics or Protestants see. Everyone has a different “skill”. I don’t know any Catholic who “thinks” Our Lady is part of the Trinity, only other person I ever heard that from was Mohammad.
Mary is blessed… just as she said … that is not the questionEasy. It’s too Catholic.
Slavery is the wrong word. It is to more accurate to say we are a part of the Church Militant in service to God and Mary is the Queen Mother. We are soldiers of Christ (2 Timothy 2:3). St. Michael is the Prince and “general of the army.” Satan is the one in shackles.Pope John Paul II consecrated himself to Mary according to the Act of Total Consecration to Jesus Through Mary by St. Louis de Montfort. Consecration to Mary is often called “Holy slavery to Mary” or “Slavery to Jesus through Mary.” Blessed John Paul II stated that discovering “Total Devotion to the Blessed Virgin” by St. Lousi de Montfort was the turning point in his spiritual life.
I would point out that many eastern prayers to Mary are blatant requests for salvation from her hands, such as “Most holy Theotokos, save us!” as recited regularly by Eastern Catholics who pray the Rule of St. Pachomius. I’m not sure if you have ever gone to an orthodox or Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy. The Eastern Orthodox Churches I have attended were rife with Marian doveotion. Many of the Eastern Churches feature overt prayers to Mary as part of every Divine Liturgy.
But suffice it to say that when we see someone praying the rosary or vernerating a statue of Mary, we don’t know someone has in their heart and how pleasing their soul is to God. If one such as Blessed John Paul II was consecrated to Mary, perhapse we shouldn’t lable other Catholics with similar devotions “excessive.”
-Tim-
1voice because you are in error you can’t see it now, but you are, you have not been given the Grace to understand, that all, Pray for it. AmenQuote:
Mary is blessed… just as she said … that is not the question
The question is that many Catholics seem to hold Jesus mother in a place that borders on diety. Saying that Mary was born without sin … The same as Jesus … and in addition giving the impression that … going to Mary is the best way to get to Jesus/ God
… and that … on some level Mary suffered the in the same way that Jesus did.
1voice, you say above Virgin Mary did not suffer for us? Explain Luke 2: 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted; 35 And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed.
1voice why did Virgin Mary, have to suffer a sword in Her Heart? Who are the “Many Hearts” that Simeon stated Mary has to suffer for, Hmm, did Simeon mean aliens from the planet Mars, lol or did he mean you and I? Regarding thoughts May be revealed" Well, who’s who’s thoughts my be revealed? Truth is Virgin Mary suffered for us it states so in scripture and Reveals Jesus Christ to us all, this being said: Mary is the surest way to Jesus Christ. The Same way Jesus Christ came into this world through Mary, I Choose the same Road Back to Our Savior Jesus Christ. Will Jesus Christ condemn us for this when He in fact choose to come to us through His Mother, Never!
… When Catholics spend countless hours pointing at Jesus Blessed Mother as Mediatrix and Co-redemptrix
… when the Bible specifically states the there is one mediator between God and man … and one Redeemer.
1voice, True, the Catholic teaches that there is one Mediator between God and man and His Name is Jesus Christ… But have you ever prayed for a loved one or for your self? if You have, then you are like a co mediator that takes a prayer for that loved one or for yourself, to the One and Only Mediator between God and Man. This is the REASON for Prayer, this is the reason God wants us to pray for one another.
… and in response to that serious concern Catholics create a very complicated explanation to justify their position and tend to degrade anyone that scratches their head and chooses to question or disagree …
1voice, here, you are trying to justify your beliefs, to a Church that Jesus Christ founded on Rock, that exited centuries before your Church ever came to be, and way before you even began to scratch your head against it, don’t you see something wrong with this picture?
why is it not a legitimate point to bring up?
That is the whole point. If you aren’t with Mary, how can you be with Jesus? Jesus came into the world through Mary. As you said the CCC explains and the individual Catholic doesn’t always get it. If you are a faithful Catholic who attends Mass (where we read the Bible) and puts a little effort into your faith (private prayer/study), you would never be so confused as to think Mary was a member of the “Quadiry”. That is anti-Catholic bashing 101 to say we worship Mary as if she is God, simply not accurate. Mary is why we say Jesus is Truely man. There are alot of people who don’t understand like “pro-abortion catholics”, but that doesn’t take away from the Truth. If that is the grounds for argument why do you believe in Jesus if He is God how couldn’t he have picked 12 men without a bretrayor. You don’t use Judas or Peter’s denial as grounds to disprove what Jesus taught, so what does someone’s misunderstanding (which seems to be your misperception) have to do with your attack on the Catholic Church as a whole. Also it is your perception, as you said it seems, that people don’t understand Mary is not God. How do you know that these people feel this way, or are you just assuming. Maybe it is you don’t understand what they do, Mary brings you to God. Mary isn’t God, it is God that saves us. I don’t understand how you can say the Catecism seems right but then say Catholics aren’t.Well, first I’d like to mention that since I’m not Roman Catholic, the fact that Pope John Paul II consecrated himself to Mary doesn’t comfort me very much, in fact it highly disturbs me. The whole concept in itself is quite perplexing.
I understand the concept of celebrating Mary as a holy woman, as the highest ideal to which a Christian can aspire to, as understanding that her righteous and undying faith in God led to her being the temple in which Christ became incarnate. Totally get it. Totally understand and accept saintly intercession, and the high role of Mary in this.
But the whole ‘to Christ through Mary,’ ‘consecration to Mary, ‘the Immaculate Heart of Mary triumphing’’ and other things seem to clearly take the focus off of Christ and to Mary. I’m well aware of those Orthodox prayers, but it’s rather obvious that the Orthodox don’t see it as Mary literally saving us. Literally everything they associate with the Virgin Mary always refers back to the incarnation, and her role as God-bearer.
That’s not the point.
The point is that some Catholics do not seem to understand that Mary is not a fourth member of the Trinity. The Catholic Catechism seems to offer a much more balanced view of Mary, but when I hear individual Catholics say things like ‘Praise to Jesus and Mary…’ it throws me off.
I understand that it is intercessory prayer, that grace and salvation originate with God. But is not that prayer, part of the larger prayer to God for mercy and salvation, a recognition of her role as Mediatrix of all grace?I don’t know if I can agree with what you’ve written. I don’t think most Eastern Christians understand the line “most holy Theotokos save us!” as being a request for the Theotokos herself to save us from her hands (as opposed to through her prayers to God). To do so would be a grave theological blunder. Most prayers to the Theotokos make mention of her role as humanity’s perpetual intercessor before God; that particular prayer, however, owing to its brevity, does not, but that doesn’t change the understanding of what it means to pray to the Theotokos for salvation and deliverance.
To get a more well-rounded view of how Eastern Christians view the Theotokos, I would suggest reading the prayers from the small supplicatory canon to the Theotokos, which properly emphasize her role as the birthgiver of Christ and her special role as an intercessor for us.
Catholic tradition might like to object to your statement. Arguments that Jesus never told the Apostles to write anything, Solar Scriptura isn’t found in the Bible and was envier supported by the early Church aside, Mary’s immense power for the first hundred years or two wasn’t revealed because since the people of that time converted from paganism and other false religions would make Mary out to be of an equal level to God as a goddess. However, the Apostles still wrote some things about Her with Saint James founding a Church in Her honor and the woman clothed with the Sun thing. Years later, Saints Ephrem, Augustine, John Damascene and the whole Church eventually put feast days in Her honor. Heck, in the catacombs of Saint Priscilla from the middle of the 2nd century, we have the earliest depiction of Mary ever.Jesus, while in his ministry in Israel, never told anyone to go to his mother for anything. He said … My mother and brothers and sisters are these that hear and obey my words and follow me.
Jesus said … when you pray … “Say Our Father” … He never mentioned his mother in this regard.
That’s the way it appears to many who do not fully understand the role of Mary as mediatrix of all grace. Yes, grace is won for us by Jesus, but Mary mediates it and dispenses it. If all grace comes to us through Mary, and if Mary is the dispentrix of all grace, according to her will which is perfectly conformed to her Son’s will, why would you not ask her for her hand in your salvation?But the whole ‘to Christ through Mary,’ ‘consecration to Mary, ‘the Immaculate Heart of Mary triumphing’’ and other things seem to clearly take the focus off of Christ and to Mary.
Again, lack of understanding of the doctrine of Mary, Mediatrix of all Grace is the root cause of seeing a phrase like “Praise to Jesus and Mary” as a diefication of Mary. There seems to be a subtle and sometimes not so subtle dismissal of those who whould say such things as not understand the basics of Christian theology in general or their own Catholic theology in particular. Such are more sophisticated than we are often given credit for, with Blessed John Paul II as an example. No one can accuse the Holy Father of not understanding his own faith.That’s not the point.
The point is that some Catholics do not seem to understand that Mary is not a fourth member of the Trinity. The Catholic Catechism seems to offer a much more balanced view of Mary, but when I hear individual Catholics say things like ‘Praise to Jesus and Mary…’ it throws me off.
I’m not so sure. It would be helpful I guess if you defined the title mediatrix of all grace for me, as I have often heard the title, but have not really understood what it means. If the implication is that all grace is sent to us through the intercessions of the Theotokos, then I don’t think that the Orthodox would be very accepting of that statement. If all grace is meant to be some sort of hyperbole, then I suppose the title could be acceptable to the Orthodox.I understand that it is intercessory prayer, that grace and salvation originate with God. But is not that prayer, part of the larger prayer to God for mercy and salvation, a recognition of her role as Mediatrix of all grace?
-Tim-
Mary does not dispense the grace that Jesus won. Jesus does.That’s the way it appears to many who do not fully understand the role of Mary as mediatrix of all grace. Yes, grace is won for us by Jesus, but Mary mediates it and dispenses it.
Many Southern Baptists wore white hooded robes and took a banjo to church. Does this coincide with Southern Baptist teaching?The question is that many Catholics seem to hold Jesus mother in a place that borders on diety.
Can you please provide Scripture to support your statement Mary is the mediatrix of all grace.That’s the way it appears to many who do not fully understand the role of Mary as mediatrix of all grace.
Can you please provide Scripture to support your statement that Mary mediates grace .Yes, grace is won for us by Jesus, but Mary mediates it and dispenses it.
Where is the Scripture stating that all grace is dispensed through Mary.If all grace comes to us through Mary, and if Mary is the dispentrix of all grace, according to her will
Where Is the Scripture stating Mary dispenses grace leading to salvation?which is perfectly conformed to her Son’s will, why would you not ask her for her hand in your salvation?
-Tim-
Where in Scripture is it said that we must only use Scripture as authority? Where in Scripture is it said that it is only sufficient to understand the faith?Based on the admonition that the Bible states to study to show yourselves approved …
Can you please provide Scripture to support your statement Mary is the mediatrix of all grace.
Can you please provide Scripture to support your statement that Mary mediates grace .
Where is the Scripture stating that all grace is dispensed through Mary.
Where Is the Scripture stating Mary dispenses grace leading to salvation?