M
mark_a
Guest
Check the post above yours:
Clearly you are asking an “Are you still beating your wife?” type question.
- Status
C
cccw2009
Guest
There is NO greater love than that of God. The love of God is far greater than any love there is. No one can love any of us more than Jesus. No one.
It is written. The command to believe what is written means to believe only the PURE WORD of God.
God tells us not to add or subject from His Word:
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this
book: If any man shall add unto these things , God shall add unto him the
plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the
words of the book of this prophecy , God shall take away his part out of the
Book of Life , and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in
this book”
—Revelation 22: 18-19
Pslams 119:160 160 Thy WORD is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous
judgments endureth for ever.
2 Timothy 3:15-16 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus .
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction , for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private
interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy
men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
scripture cannot be broken John 10:35 35 If he called them gods , unto whom the word of God came , and the scripture cannot be broken
Sanctify them through thy truth : thy
word is truth .” -Jesus
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written , Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The Bible is God’s Word.
The Lord ’s total acceptance of the authority of the Old Testament is evident in His words found in Matthew 5:17-18 “Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill . For verily , I say unto you , Till heaven and earth pass, one
jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. ”
Mark
7: 13 “ You are making the word of God of none effect through your tradition ,
which ye have delivered : and many such things do ye. ” Since Scripture alone is inspired , it alone is the ultimate authority, and it alone is the final judge of Tradition.
Proverbs 30 :5 -6 :
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him . Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar .”
God commands that we are not to add to His Word : this command shows emphatically that it is God’s Word alone that is pure and
uncontaminated.
Aligned with Proverbs , the Lord’ s strong, clear declaration in Isaiah 8: 20 is :
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word , it
is because there is no light in them. ” The truth is this : since God’s written word alone is inspired , it and it alone is the sole rule of faith. It cannot be otherwise.
God’s truth is seen in the light of God’s truth . The Apostle Paul said the same thing , “ Which things also we speak , not in the words
which man’ s wisdom teacheth but which the Holy Ghost teacheth ,comparing spiritual things with spiritual ” (I Corinthians 2 :13 ). It is precisely in the light which God’s truth sheds, that His truth is seen. (Cp . John 3 :18- 21, II
Corinthians 4 :3 -7 ).
“Jesus answered and said to him, If a man love me, he will keep my words : and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings ; and the word which ye hear is not mine , but the Father’s which sent Me ” (John 14:23 -24) . And then again “ Heaven and earth will pass away , but my words shall not pass away ” (Matthew 24: 35)
The Bible is God’s Word. What the Catholic Church teach on Mary is not from the Bible. What the Catholic Church teaches on Mary is one of the biggest reasons I have left the Catholic Church. I don’t pray to Mary (anymore) because nowhere in the Bible does it say pray to her.
It is written. -Jesus
It is written. The command to believe what is written means to believe only the PURE WORD of God.
God tells us not to add or subject from His Word:
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this
book: If any man shall add unto these things , God shall add unto him the
plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the
words of the book of this prophecy , God shall take away his part out of the
Book of Life , and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in
this book”
—Revelation 22: 18-19
Pslams 119:160 160 Thy WORD is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous
judgments endureth for ever.
2 Timothy 3:15-16 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus .
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction , for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private
interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy
men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
scripture cannot be broken John 10:35 35 If he called them gods , unto whom the word of God came , and the scripture cannot be broken
Sanctify them through thy truth : thy
word is truth .” -Jesus
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written , Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The Bible is God’s Word.
The Lord ’s total acceptance of the authority of the Old Testament is evident in His words found in Matthew 5:17-18 “Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill . For verily , I say unto you , Till heaven and earth pass, one
jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. ”
Mark
7: 13 “ You are making the word of God of none effect through your tradition ,
which ye have delivered : and many such things do ye. ” Since Scripture alone is inspired , it alone is the ultimate authority, and it alone is the final judge of Tradition.
Proverbs 30 :5 -6 :
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him . Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar .”
God commands that we are not to add to His Word : this command shows emphatically that it is God’s Word alone that is pure and
uncontaminated.
Aligned with Proverbs , the Lord’ s strong, clear declaration in Isaiah 8: 20 is :
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word , it
is because there is no light in them. ” The truth is this : since God’s written word alone is inspired , it and it alone is the sole rule of faith. It cannot be otherwise.
God’s truth is seen in the light of God’s truth . The Apostle Paul said the same thing , “ Which things also we speak , not in the words
which man’ s wisdom teacheth but which the Holy Ghost teacheth ,comparing spiritual things with spiritual ” (I Corinthians 2 :13 ). It is precisely in the light which God’s truth sheds, that His truth is seen. (Cp . John 3 :18- 21, II
Corinthians 4 :3 -7 ).
“Jesus answered and said to him, If a man love me, he will keep my words : and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings ; and the word which ye hear is not mine , but the Father’s which sent Me ” (John 14:23 -24) . And then again “ Heaven and earth will pass away , but my words shall not pass away ” (Matthew 24: 35)
The Bible is God’s Word. What the Catholic Church teach on Mary is not from the Bible. What the Catholic Church teaches on Mary is one of the biggest reasons I have left the Catholic Church. I don’t pray to Mary (anymore) because nowhere in the Bible does it say pray to her.
It is written. -Jesus
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Really thats why you left the Catholic Church? What happened I’d love to hear the story.
So what happened after you left, you went where? What confirms your understanding of Bible…Yourself? Bible-Class, Church… I’m intersted in the story.
So what happened after you left, you went where? What confirms your understanding of Bible…Yourself? Bible-Class, Church… I’m intersted in the story.
C
Credendum
Guest
A while back I made a post about my struggle with devotion to Mary. I’m a former protestant, and I used to view Mary as the woman who gave birth to the Savior of the world, and nothing more. I understand the fear of committing idolatry, and the perception that Catholics are worshipping a pagan goddess. BUT…
In postmodern times, we can make the mistake of viewing the Church through a westernised lens, one which portrays the Church as a democracy where one can pick and choose what to emphasize.
The Church is a theocracy. In the Old Testament, the King’s mother was the Queen. Jesus referred to the Church as the Kingdom of God. It is a holy kingdom headed by the King of Kings with the Queen of Heaven as the mother of the Church.
In postmodern times, we can make the mistake of viewing the Church through a westernised lens, one which portrays the Church as a democracy where one can pick and choose what to emphasize.
The Church is a theocracy. In the Old Testament, the King’s mother was the Queen. Jesus referred to the Church as the Kingdom of God. It is a holy kingdom headed by the King of Kings with the Queen of Heaven as the mother of the Church.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Without a doubt your correct. I don’t know what happened with others or what they may have conceived, thats why I ask.
Peace
1
1voice
Guest
I have Mormon acquaintances that say the same thing.
U
ufamtobie
Guest
Fabius, does Luke 1: 39-45 throw you off as well?39 And Mary rising up in those days, went into the hill country with haste into a city of Juda. 40 And she entered into the house of Zachary, and saluted Elizabeth. 41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.
Fabious, Elizabeth filled with the “Holy Spirit” Praised both Virgin Mary and the infant in Her womb(Jesus) Note: Elizabeth praised Virgin Mary First, by calling Her Blessed First before Jesus… Fabious, Now what do you say about that?
Fabious, “Does this throw you off” that Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit mentions Virgin Mary First. “If this throws you off”, then you are fighting against the Holy Spirit, a battle you will not win
Elizabeth goes on to say: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? …Fabious, is Elizabeth putting Virgin Mary first before the Baby Jesus in the womb of Mary? of Course not! But you would think this if you hear a Catholic say something like this to Virgin Mary, am I not right in saying so? I guess we all know what religion Elizabeth would love to be a member of and that is the Catholic Church.
Fabious don’t let this throw you off, that the Catholic Church leaps for Joy when the Name of Mary is mentioned or when She speaks to us we listen, why because Even the baby in Elizabeth’s womb listened to Mary’s voice and leapt for Joy, and so will the Catholic Church.
I am so sorry you are not a member of the Catholic Church, a Church that Baby John would indeed be a member of, by His actions while yet in his mothers womb.
Ufam Tobie
C
Cavaradossi
Guest
I think you’re making a strawman out of FabiusMaximus’ position. Generally speaking, FabiusMaximus tends to be (probably owing to his unchurched status) one of the more reasonable and unbiased posters on this board, with a good grasp of history and Tradition to boot, so I don’t think there’s any need to patronize him by misrepresenting his argument, throwing scripture at him and treating him like he’s some sort of unenlightened and naive Protestant who has no understanding of Church history and Tradition.Fabius, does Luke 1: 39-45 throw you off as well?39 And Mary rising up in those days, went into the hill country with haste into a city of Juda. 40 And she entered into the house of Zachary, and saluted Elizabeth. 41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.
Fabious, Elizabeth filled with the “Holy Spirit” Praised both Virgin Mary and the infant in Her womb(Jesus) Note: Elizabeth praised Virgin Mary First, by calling Her Blessed First before Jesus… Fabious, Now what do you say about that?
Fabious, “Does this throw you off” that Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit mentions Virgin Mary First. “If this throws you off”, then you are fighting against the Holy Spirit, a battle you will not win
Elizabeth goes on to say: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? …Fabious, is Elizabeth putting Virgin Mary first before the Baby Jesus in the womb of Mary? of Course not! But you would think this if you hear a Catholic say something like this to Virgin Mary, am I not right in saying so? I guess we all know what religion Elizabeth would love to be a member of and that is the Catholic Church.
Fabious don’t let this throw you off, that the Catholic Church leaps for Joy when the Name of Mary is mentioned or when She speaks to us we listen, why because Even the baby in Elizabeth’s womb listened to Mary’s voice and leapt for Joy, and so will the Catholic Church.
I am so sorry you are not a member of the Catholic Church, a Church that Baby John would indeed be a member of, by His actions while yet in his mothers womb.
Ufam Tobie
His discomfort doesn’t seem to lie with venerating the Virgin Mary, as he stated earlier in the thread that he’s comfortable with the way the Orthodox do it. I think he’s uncomfortable with some practices like consecrating yourself to the Virgin Mary and certain titles like Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of all graces, which seem to elevate the Virgin Mary into a position which she historically did not have within the Church. Personally, I find some of the more extreme positions which have been presented in this thread like the idea that the Virgin Mary dispenses all graces or that none may approach Christ except through the Virgin Mary (I am not making this up, look through the past three pages of this thread and you will see these very arguments being put forth) to be somewhat disturbing and theologically out of line with what Christians have traditionally believed.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Your right, FabiusMaximus is a well learned Christian. Peace
T
Te_Deum
Guest
Go read the Akathist to the Holy Virgin to get an idea of Eastern Catholic/Orthodox devotion to Our Blessed Lady. The Litany of the Blessed Virgin is as a full moon at night… the Akathist to the Holy Virgin the sun at 'noon.
And you seem to be confused about Catholic practise. All authentic Catholic devotion is completely directed at Christ through the Blessed Virgin. The very same in the East.
D
Disinherited
Guest
Yeah so? You didn’t prove that the Bible endorses sola scriptura. Catholics say it all the time.
A
afiala2
Guest
GKC on SS youtube.com/watch?v=kFqeb4decbk
More on SS youtube.com/watch?v=aEsMjB00oek&feature=related
Who founded your church? youtube.com/watch?v=ecx6b2FwqA0&feature=related
Revelation 12:17, the children of Mary are those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus. If you aren’t (or don’t consider yourself) a child of Mary, the Bible says you aren’t keeping the commandments or bearing witness to Jesus because it says it is her offspring that does these things.
If satan is angry with you that means you are doing something right (or you are on the right side). Satan is angry with Mary and waging war on her children.
Revelation 11:15-12:17, Mary is the New Eve, NT Ark of the Covenant and the Queen Mother with a crown of 12 stars.
Matthew 1:20-23, Jesus came into the world through the Holy Spirit and Mary. (Jesus is True God and True Man. We can only know this correct understanding of Jesus, or know who Jesus is, by having a clear and correct understanding of who Mary is.)
If you are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Bible (authored by the Holy Spirit) in Luke 1:41-42 says you say, as Elizabeth did when she cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.” Do you say this? If you don’t are you sure you are filled with the Holy Spirit? Notice the passage is talking about JESUS as well or Mary leads to Jesus. Mary is Jesus’ biological mother, or 50% of the Savior, Jesus, is Jesus’ human nature which came from Mary. How could anything less than a pure vessel (Mary) be God’s mother?
Mary said from now on will all ages call me blessed (Luke 1:48), but read all of Luke 1:26-56. The Bible says that she said from now on to call her Blessed, and Elizabeth, when filled with the Holy Spirit, said she is Most Blessed. Yet anti-Catholicism stops many Protestants from treating Jesus’ Mother with the respect that she deserves and the Title she said we should/will call her by. So if it is in the Bible, why are people who say they only believe the Bible not doing this? (Remember Catholics don’t believe in Bible alone because it goes against history, common sense, and the Bible’s own teachings. And also we only believe the Bible is the Inspired Word of God because the Catholic Church says so, after all that is how we got the Bible in the first place. The Holy Spirit’s continued guidance of the Church and the Church’s interpretation of the Bible is how we know what the Bible means. Otherwise how would we know what books are in the Bible and agree on what they mean? People not understanding this simple concept is why there are 38,000 denominations and counting. Christ prayed for unity, John 17:20-23.) Let the truth be your guide.
A
afiala2
Guest
If two people have opposing views, at most one can be right (or both are wrong but one would be more right than the other). There is no goddess of the Catholic religion. The man made concept of a “catholic goddess Mary” is made by anti-Catholics. These same Protestants accusing Catholics of creating a god, did it themselves while pretending Catholics did and then accused Catholics of doing it. So they hate their own creation, a false goddess. Or they like their invented Mary and hate the real Mary, the Catholic Mary. Good luck on judgment day going to God and insulting his mother saying she is just like everyone else. Where I come from (earth), if you insult someone’s mother you are insulting them. It is pretty boastful to think you are worthy of being God’s mother if you are a woman or equal to God’s mother if you are a man (since she is just like the rest of us). It is time to come back to earth.
So option 1: the Catholic Mary, Mother to all who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus, the New Eve, the NT Ark of the Covenant, Sinless ever-Virgin, which we assume is in Heaven as Queen of Heaven and Earth, and is the Queen Mother to her Son, who is also the Son of the Most High, Jesus who is the King of Kings on the throne of his father David, and His Kingdom will not have an end.
Or option 2: Just some random woman in the Bible, God randomly chose to only ‘use’ her for nine months for Jesus to come into the world. Has no special place or rank above the rest of us. She would never want God to allow her to help others in a special way even though she has found favor with God (Luke 1:28), because she is just another random selfish person that God randomly choose from all time to be his mother. She wouldn’t want all the attention, because why would she of all people want to help anyone, she’s not that virtuous? It makes her sad that people give her attention for being the mother of God, and she is so confused why anyone would do such a thing. (Then misquote scripture to feed the lie that Catholics worship Mary, by lying about what Catholics teach.)
Which option helps a CHRISTIAN to understand that abortion is killing a child? Is killing children right or wrong? Which option gives more respect to women? Which option is correct and historical? Which option would Jesus choose for his mother if He could pick? NOW REMEMBER, JESUS IS GOD! He is the perfect Son.
Note: Revelation 22:8-9 is an exchange between John and an Angel. You seem to be implying Catholics worship Mary, I don’t know how many times I have to say it for you to listen but Mary is not God, but she is the MOTHER OF GOD. You don’t seem to understand the Mother of God part, because you are too busy falsely accusing us Catholics of thinking Mary is God or that we practice Mary idolatry.
You can keep accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary as a god, or you can listen or see what the Church actually teaches.
May the light of truth guide you.
A
afiala2
Guest
No big deal, just the Savior of the World. Wait, timeout, you think Jesus isn’t that big of a deal? When you down play Mary’s importance and role, it takes away from Jesus as well. This leads you one step closer to losing touch with the fact that Jesus is God.
2+2 =4, 4+4=8, many things are true. Not every subject is explicitly spelled out in the Bible. Where do you go for an answer? Now the Bible is the Truth and has many answers, but we clearly need guidance for interpretation because 38,000 and counting isn’t the truth of Christian unity that is in the Bible. The Bible says there is no scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation (2 Peter 1:20). Jesus prayed for unity.
John 21:25, not everything is recorded in the Bible. The Bible instructs to hold fast the traditions you were taught either by ORAL STATEMENT (spoken) or by letter (written), 2 Thessalonians 2:15. 1 Corinthians 11:2, says hold fast to the traditions. Where did the Bible come from? How do you know things are or aren’t true that are in the Bible? How do you know other books shouldn’t be in the Bible or taken out, who’s authority are you listening too? (Which man/men, everyone says Holy Spirit but have different opinions can’t all be the Holy Spirit-God unifies.) 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22, says do not despise prophetic utterances, test everything and retain what is good. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15), not the Bible. The Bible didn’t exist until after it was written how could have early Christians known the truth if the Bible is the only way for them to know anything and how could have they written the Bible which is the truth if they didn’t possess the truth? What did people do for nearly 350 years after Christ ascended into heaven, before the first time the canon was established? How do you know the Holy Spirit changed its mind with Martin Luther and removed books out of the OT (Luther wanted to remove some of the NT as well)? What did people do who couldn’t read (some people still are illiterate to this day)? How where Bibles mass produced and distributed before the invention of the printing press? If the Holy Spirit is guiding everyone’s interpretation why is he telling everyone different things? AND WHY would people not HONOR THE MOTHER OF GOD if they read the books (the Bible) authored by her spouse?
How do you know what is irrelevant?
A
afiala2
Guest
If you don’t look at the OT and apply it to the NT, how does the NT have any meaning? How do you know Jesus is the Messiah and it isn’t just an elaborate bedtime story? How is it beneficial spiritually if you don’t mediate and pray about it? If you aren’t looking for the obvious signs in scripture, what do you do, think of the first thing that comes to mind about what you want it to say? Do you believe Christ is the prophesied Messiah?
Really are you serious why would we give God’s Mother respect and follow what the Bible says?
The Bible says that Mary said from now on to call her Blessed, and Elizabeth, when filled with the Holy Spirit, said she is Most Blessed.
Mary’s title Blessed shows Jesus together with Mary will strike a lethal blow to Satan’s head. Judges 5:24, says Blessed (not most blessed) among women be Jael, blessed among tent-dwelling women. In Judges 4:17-22, Jael drove a tent peg with a mallet through the temple/skull of the Canaanite general Sisera, which helped Israel gain power against a Canaanite King. Judges 9:50-55, a woman casts a millstone on oppressive King Abimelech fracturing his skull. Judith 13:4-10, Judith beheads Holofernes the leader of an enemy of Israel. Judith 13:18 says “Blessed are you, daughter, by the Most High God, above all the women on the earth; and blessed be the Lord God, the creator of the heaven and earth, who guided your blow at the head of the chief of our enemies.”
Z
Zenas
Guest
Afiala2, take it easy. I am attempting to explain, not advocate. I’m probably closer to your beliefs than you realize but I also recognize that Protestant beliefs about Mary are not without any substance.
F
FabiusMaximus
Guest
No, I don’t have a problem with that. But as Cavaradossi mentioned, there are certain practices and reactions among the faithful that seem to go well beyond that passage of scripture. As I’ve mentioned, I have no qualms about the veneration of Mary, in fact, it makes perfect, logical sense to me. I recognize the position of Mary was “Mother of the Church,” her role as a powerful intercessor for being Christ’s mother, as well as her being the most perfect example of how a Christian should live.Fabious, Elizabeth filled with the “Holy Spirit” Praised both Virgin Mary and the infant in Her womb(Jesus) Note: Elizabeth praised Virgin Mary First, by calling Her Blessed First before Jesus… Fabious, Now what do you say about that?
Fabious, “Does this throw you off” that Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit mentions Virgin Mary First. “If this throws you off”, then you are fighting against the Holy Spirit, a battle you will not win
Elizabeth goes on to say: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? …Fabious, is Elizabeth putting Virgin Mary first before the Baby Jesus in the womb of Mary? of Course not! But you would think this if you hear a Catholic say something like this to Virgin Mary, am I not right in saying so? I guess we all know what religion Elizabeth would love to be a member of and that is the Catholic Church.
Fabious don’t let this throw you off, that the Catholic Church leaps for Joy when the Name of Mary is mentioned or when She speaks to us we listen, why because Even the baby in Elizabeth’s womb listened to Mary’s voice and leapt for Joy, and so will the Catholic Church.
But there is something about “Consecration to Mary,” and some of the other things that were mentioned, like that you can “only get to Christ through Mary” that go well beyond simple veneration and that make me extremely uncomfortable. It doesn’t seem like it is a kind of veneration that leads directly to Christ.
I’m not particularly comfortable with John Paul II’s consecration to Mary. But then again I’m not a Roman Catholic, so it doesn’t reassure me as it might to you. What do you exactly mean by the ‘Mediatrix of all Grace’? Do you mean her role as God-bearer?
Precisely it.
Would you be so kind to clarify how?
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
FabiusMaximus, my brother, I can’t help you with incorrect thinking in some concepts with The Blessed Mother. By the most part I haven’t witnessed this. I understand some are on a more extreme aspect of this thinking. I rarely see it though have heard about it.
My best advice is to attend a Catholic Church on Sunday and honestly observe the Mass. I assure you, you won’t see a worship of Our Lady. They won’t hang a ton of Rosarys around your neck, chain you to pew and make you pray to the Blessed Mother.
In the liturgical calender theres a prayer for intercession/Mary in each phase of the calender. Usually those in convents/monestarys observe this very close. I say the same prayers yearly. Yes I’m convinced of Our Ladys power to interceed as Queen of Heaven. And believe its a reality. As to the Assumption, I see both the EO/CC thinking here which date to 4th century. How the body arrived or didn’t in Heaven? I don’t know Bro, I wasn’t there. Imaculate Conception could happened “one” of three ways. I believe Duns Scotus has it right from studying it. It sounds “most fitting” IMHO
Catholic like the Copts believe Our Lady is the Gate to Her Son and the Brother/Sisterhood.
In the Mystical Body we believe the Head is Jesus Christ like you do, Mary is the neck which has and clearly can interceed to Her Son. The Heart is the Holy Spirit, thats the Love and Fire burning in all Christains Heart. The Elect and Laity are the body with the elect in a sitiation to carry the burden of correcting error and showing correct reverence.
As far as do “ALL” Graces come through Our Lady? They can, yet I don’t see where its manditory by God they “have” too. Obviously He is GOD. And as Our Lady has stated in all Her apparitions/Miracles. She has a desire to help mankind come closer to God. But also states She cannot hold back his Arm. Only suggests man to see his error, and seek that which is of God, otherwords to seperate needs/wants of the spiritual aspect in Gods Kingdom. And understand you are in a spiritual realm, which by large man has refused to accept.
I see the intercession more as the Wedding of Cana. St Mary asks Jesus to perform a Miracle. He doesn’t argue, just states its not His business. However, Mary states, “Do whatever He tells you” Then He interceeds by Her request. This is more in tune with how I view the Kingdom of God. So yes there’s a GREAT ability to interceed by St Mary, to Her Son and for mankind which are His brothers and sister if they so desire through free-will to be.
God so repected Mary that he asked Her to cooperate with Him in the redemption. Mary could have refused as Eve did. The fact the Archangel comes in person and bows before Mary is also a direct contrast to what satan was asked to and refused to do, with humans in particular Christ and Mary/Holy Family. So yes while this leads to the Incarnation, Theres a truth also “before” the incarnation. And it gives more clarity to Our Ladys reality.
God makes the judgement on your Salvation, through Grace Our Lady can and does help with your Grace. However you stand before God in the end. To not use all the tools available for a job to me is just a burden one places; on themself, and for no good reason. I use ALL the tools. I’m seeking Salvation. Our Lady has helped me…FOR SURE!
Peace
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Also “as Cavaradossi mentioned” has little value in Catholism. He attends the EO. Has he even ever attended a Catholic Mass? Do you know? If you want to seek the Truth from a Catholic standpoint? Go to the source.
No disrespect meant to anyone, this is basically what I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread. I wouldn’t ask Cavaradossi to explain YOUR faith or church either. I’d ask YOU, and attend YOUR church.
Peace
No disrespect meant to anyone, this is basically what I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread. I wouldn’t ask Cavaradossi to explain YOUR faith or church either. I’d ask YOU, and attend YOUR church.
Peace
C
Cavaradossi
Guest
I wasn’t explaining the Catholic faith, just making observations about what others have said here.Also “as Cavaradossi mentioned” has little value in Catholism. He attends the EO. Has he even ever attended a Catholic Mass? Do you know? If you want to seek the Truth from a Catholic standpoint? Go to the source.
No disrespect meant to anyone, this is basically what I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread. I wouldn’t ask Cavaradossi to explain YOUR faith or church either. I’d ask YOU, and attend YOUR church.
Peace
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