What about Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists...What Happens to Them?

[Linkowski]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

What does the Catholic Church teach on this??

• Link

 

[Other_Eric]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

What does the Catholic Church teach on this??

• Link

The Catholic Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church. As a result of the doctrine of Baptism of Desire, no one can say where the boundaries of the Church are. Therefore, as far as Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and others are concerned, the Church teaches us to have patience; we will see what happens to each one of them soon enough.

 

[mikew262]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

What does the Catholic Church teach on this??

• Link

See the thread I started on “Non-Catholic Religions”…I asked about how God relates to Non-Christians. Deals roughly with the same thing and my take on it.

 

[mikew262]

The Catholic Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church.

Err, that is open to some debate based upon this part of the CCC, see below.

While I am Catholic, it’s important to note to non-Catholics and non-Christians that the “no salvation outside the Church” is strictly from a Catholic point of view. Obviously, non-Catholics do not hold to this.

CCC 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.1

 

[Other_Eric]

Err, that is open to some debate based upon this part of the CCC, see below.

While I am Catholic, it’s important to note to non-Catholics and non-Christians that the “no salvation outside the Church” is strictly from a Catholic point of view. Obviously, non-Catholics do not hold to this.

CCC 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.1

Which is why I mentioned Baptism of Desire, in the very next sentence, which you failed to quote.

 

[SPH1]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

What does the Catholic Church teach on this??

• Link

This is absolutely true. As I believe Pope Benedict wrote while still a Cardinal, those Hindus, Muslims, etc. who are saved are being saved through Christ as their unseen savior.

Your scriptural citations on their face do not necessarily entail one to be aware of Christ as savior. Rather, they are stating the general fact that Christ is the savior and path to God…anyone who is saved is saved due to Christ and not because the merits of their own religions.

 

[Linkowski]

This is absolutely true. As I believe Pope Benedict wrote while still a Cardinal, those Hindus, Muslims, etc. who are saved are being saved through Christ as their unseen savior.

Your scriptural citations on their face do not necessarily entail one to be aware of Christ as savior. Rather, they are stating the general fact that Christ is the savior and path to God…anyone who is saved is saved due to Christ and not because the merits of their own religions.

Is there any scriptural support for this?

How are they born again (John 3:3)?

Don’t all religions call for good works as a means of salvation?

1 John 5:12 KJV 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Wouldn’t those Cornelius’s of the world receive that special revelation from God that they might hear the word of God and be born again (Acts 10)?

1 Peter 1:23 KJV 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Could it simply be that they are not part of the elect (Romans 9)??

 

[thistle]

This is absolutely true. As I believe Pope Benedict wrote while still a Cardinal, those Hindus, Muslims, etc. who are saved are being saved through Christ as their unseen savior.

Your scriptural citations on their face do not necessarily entail one to be aware of Christ as savior. Rather, they are stating the general fact that Christ is the savior and path to God…anyone who is saved is saved due to Christ and not because the merits of their own religions.

That is not correct. Non-Catholics MAY be saved (not WILL be saved) if they have lived a life according to Christ’s teachings but have been ignorant of Christ (although I think in this day and age there cannot be many who can say they are ignorant of Christ) and would be said to have an implicit baptism of desire. There are also those who MAY be saved if they live a life according to Christ’s teachings and are not ignorant of Christ. They would want to become Catholic but are not given or allowed the opportunity to further explore Christ and his Church (the Catholic Church). They are said to have an explicit baptism of desire.

However, non-Catholics who deem themselves to be Christians and who have had the opportunity to explore the true Church founded by Christ (the Catholic Church) but REJECT it, it is unlikely they will be be saved.
Of course nothing is impossible with God.

 

[SPH1]

That is not correct. Non-Catholics MAY be saved (not WILL be saved) if they have lived a life according to Christ’s teachings but have been ignorant of Christ (although I think in this day and age there cannot be many who can say they are ignorant of Christ) and would be said to have an implicit baptism of desire. There are also those who MAY be saved if they live a life according to Christ’s teachings and are not ignorant of Christ. They would want to become Catholic but are not given or allowed the opportunity to further explore Christ and his Church (the Catholic Church). They are said to have an explicit baptism of desire.

However, non-Catholics who deem themselves to be Christians and who have had the opportunity to explore the true Church founded by Christ (the Catholic Church) but REJECT it, it is unlikely they will be be saved.
Of course nothing is impossible with God.

I didn’t say that non-Catholics cannot be saved (although I think the percentage is smaller than many others seem to think). What I did say is that those who are saved are saved via Christ, acting as their unseen savior. They aren’t getting into Heaven by by-passing Christ.

I think the work I’m recalling is Dominus Iesus?

20…For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81

21…it is clear that it would be contrary to the faith to consider the Church as one way of salvation alongside those constituted by the other religions, seen as complementary to the Church or substantially equivalent to her, even if these are said to be converging with the Church toward the eschatological kingdom of God.

 

[SPH1]

Is there any scriptural support for this?

Yes, your original citations. On their face, they do not require that one actually be conscious of being saved in Christ.

 

[mdstanzel]

Err, that is open to some debate based upon this part of the CCC, see below.

While I am Catholic, it’s important to note to non-Catholics and non-Christians that the “no salvation outside the Church” is strictly from a Catholic point of view. Obviously, non-Catholics do not hold to this.

CCC 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.1

Tell me if I’m wrong on this point, but I believe that it means that when persons in other religions are saved, they are saved through the Church, but never through some other means.

 

[VociMike]

Is there any scriptural support for this?

How are they born again (John 3:3)?

Don’t all religions call for good works as a means of salvation?

1 John 5:12 KJV 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Wouldn’t those Cornelius’s of the world receive that special revelation from God that they might hear the word of God and be born again (Acts 10)?

1 Peter 1:23 KJV 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Could it simply be that they are not part of the elect (Romans 9)??

Well, what about all the people of the OT, both Jews and Gentiles? Surely some of them were saved, even though they (obviously) knew nothing of the historical Christ. So how were they saved?

 

[Linkowski]

The same way - by trusting in the grace of God. As you know, Christ is in the Old Testament in mysterious ways and people were saved the same way - by looking forward to the coming Messiah and trusting in the very blood of that one that would come.

Hebrews 9:22 KJV 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

The blood had to be applied to those people at Passover and without the blood, they could not be saved. People of other religions are trusting in their own good works and their own merit and their punishment for sin is the same as for anyone - those sins must be remitted and they cannot be remitted by good works…their punishment is due unless they are justified through faith in the one who gave His life a ransom. Through the atonement - the sacrifice of one innocent lamb that would bear their sins. The penalty of their sin would then be realized on the body of Christ and they would be forgiven.

1 Peter 2:24 KJV 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

If we took this line of thought - we could just not preach Christ to anyone so everyone could be ignorant. The truth is, however, that God chooses some and passes over others.

Romans 9…

 

[mikew262]

Tell me if I’m wrong on this point, but I believe that it means that when persons in other religions are saved, they are saved through the Church, but never through some other means.

I suppose it could mean that, depending how you interpret it. However, remember this is from a strictly Catholic Church viewpoint. Non-christians and non-Catholics put no credence in this. To a Muslim, all things go through Allah and no other. Obviously, us Christians do not hold to that.

 

[Evan]

I suppose it could mean that, depending how you interpret it. However, remember this is from a strictly Catholic Church viewpoint. Non-christians and non-Catholics put no credence in this. To a Muslim, all things go through Allah and no other. Obviously, us Christians do not hold to that.

We do hold to that. All things go through God (In arabic: Allah).

 

[mikew262]

We do hold to that. All things go through God (In arabic: Allah).

I have no trouble with that, but I think you really know what I mean’t.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

No, it isn’t ‘strictly’ Catholic viewpoint. (sigh). It is truth, and remains truth whether it is ‘called’ Catholic or not. It was true before Catholicism was brought to earthly birth through the resurrection of Christ (which is why those righteous who died before His sacrifice were saved, though the heavens did not open for them until Christ opened them with his resurrection). It remains true now, for those who are in ignorance of Christ yet still, mysteriously, through His Church, which is The Body of Christ, be saved through Him. (There is no other name by which we are saved).

The means through which God has chosen to save any of us is through His Son, and the means His Son gave for salvation is the Catholic Church, to whom He gave the message to “go forth and preach the good news, baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit”, the power to ‘bind and loose’, and the promise that “you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not overcome it”.

Therefore our obligation to share the gospel, both through word and by example, is unceasing, in order to bring about to the world the desire for baptism, explicit or implicit, through the knowledge of Christ and His church. This is a reason why ecumenism in the sense that Catholics use it is so important. Unity to the one true faith is very important, otherwise we are back to the time of Paul when he exhorts the believers not to fragment themselves by saying that “I belong to Paul, I belong to Apollos” etc. but that all belong to God.

No wonder that so many nonChristians are confused today, when the thrust of the gospels has shifted from “let us tell you about Jesus Christ and His teachings” into “let ME tell you about Jesus Christ and what I THINK are his teachings.”

Not that I am saying that Protestants are ‘lesser’ or 'not as good" as Catholics. Not individually. Heck, many Protestants know more about their faith and act more Christ like than many Catholics. But. . .and it’s a big but. . .we aren’t talking about preaching the gospel of “Hank Hill the Baptist who is a better Christian than Carla Tortelli the Catholic”. What matters is that even the most Christ like Protestant lacks the fullness of truth in his/her denominational teachings.

If I’m teaching Math and I teach people addition, and subtraction, but totally leave out multiplication and division, they don’t get a complete enough picture to function. Sure, they ‘could’ figure out multiplication and/or division on their own. . .but they might not. The consequences for the lack of fullness of teaching can range from nominal to catastrophic.

 

[mikew262]

No, it isn’t ‘strictly’ Catholic viewpoint. (sigh). It is truth, and remains truth whether it is ‘called’ Catholic or not. It was true before Catholicism was brought to earthly birth through the resurrection of Christ (which is why those righteous who died before His sacrifice were saved, though the heavens did not open for them until Christ opened them with his resurrection). It remains true now, for those who are in ignorance of Christ yet still, mysteriously, through His Church, which is The Body of Christ, be saved through Him. (There is no other name by which we are saved).

The means through which God has chosen to save any of us is through His Son, and the means His Son gave for salvation is the Catholic Church, to whom He gave the message to “go forth and preach the good news, baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit”, the power to ‘bind and loose’, and the promise that “you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not overcome it”.

Therefore our obligation to share the gospel, both through word and by example, is unceasing, in order to bring about to the world the desire for baptism, explicit or implicit, through the knowledge of Christ and His church. This is a reason why ecumenism in the sense that Catholics use it is so important. Unity to the one true faith is very important, otherwise we are back to the time of Paul when he exhorts the believers not to fragment themselves by saying that “I belong to Paul, I belong to Apollos” etc. but that all belong to God.

No wonder that so many nonChristians are confused today, when the thrust of the gospels has shifted from “let us tell you about Jesus Christ and His teachings” into “let ME tell you about Jesus Christ and what I THINK are his teachings.”

Not that I am saying that Protestants are ‘lesser’ or 'not as good" as Catholics. Not individually. Heck, many Protestants know more about their faith and act more Christ like than many Catholics. But. . .and it’s a big but. . .we aren’t talking about preaching the gospel of “Hank Hill the Baptist who is a better Christian than Carla Tortelli the Catholic”. What matters is that even the most Christ like Protestant lacks the fullness of truth in his/her denominational teachings.

If I’m teaching Math and I teach people addition, and subtraction, but totally leave out multiplication and division, they don’t get a complete enough picture to function. Sure, they ‘could’ figure out multiplication and/or division on their own. . .but they might not. The consequences for the lack of fullness of teaching can range from nominal to catastrophic.

With all due respect, you are still approaching this with your Christian Catholic blinders on. As a Catholic, that certainly isn’t wrong by any means. The Catholic Church teaches that it has the fullness of truth concerning Christ. No argument, from a Christian standpoint, I feel the Church does come the closest to what God had in mind for us, thats why I’m a Catholic.

However, a non-Christian, even a non-Catholic would say poppy-cock to this. As I mentioned on another thread, who is too say God does not maybe relate to other cultures and religions in a different way that they understand? If they live a good and peaceful life according to what they understand God has taught them, can’t they be guaranteed Heaven as well completely separate from anything Christian?

I’m not saying this is true or how it is, but I just find it hard to believe with other mainstream religions out there that have no connection to Christianity, that God does not connect to them as well through other means.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Mike. . .

It really does not matter what people say, or think. The truth is not the truth “just” to whoever recognizes it–it is truth even if nobody recognizes it.

Nobody has said that God does not ‘connect’ Himself to those of other religions. He certainly does. But He does not do so by making a ‘quasi’ figure such as Kwan Yin, goddess of mercy, who can be recognized by our Asian friends as a “typology” of the Virgin Mary and thus have people argue that He chose to reveal Mary in 'this goddess". No, Kwan Yin is a false goddess, no matter how kind and Christlike an individual adherent who worships her is. However, you may be like C.S. Lewis and accept that any honor paid to Kwan Yin, provided it is done for ‘good’, is honor paid to God, though the person does not recognize God, just as any dishonor or evil action, even if done in the name of God, is never to God but rather to Satan.

 

[mikew262]

Mike. . .

It really does not matter what people say, or think. The truth is not the truth “just” to whoever recognizes it–it is truth even if nobody recognizes it.

You are right. It really doesn’t matter what people say or think ultimately. What matters is the relationship one has with God and him alone.