What about the Guy on the Cross did he have works

[Odell]

I have read a good response to this on another thred somewhere but forget and I would like for someone to explain it to me again.

It was something along the lines that he had somehting to offer us affter all but I forget any help please.

 

[The_Augustinian]

The good thief on the Cross admonished the other bad thief, and asked his Lord to “remember me when you come into Your Kingdom.” So yes, you could say they were works, inspired by grace.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I have read a good response to this on another thred somewhere but forget and I would like for someone to explain it to me again.

It was something along the lines that he had somehting to offer us affter all but I forget any help please.

The penitent thief was actually saved by “baptism of desire”.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

Now, I see the word “catechumens” with original emphasis, so if baptism of desire does not cover the thief, then I suspect he would have been talking with Jesus shortly after death in the same way that all others (Abraham, Moses, etc.) who died in prior ages would have had an opportunity to be saved.

 

[Fidelis]

This was one I replied to, preceded by the quote I was addressing. Was this it?

Quote:
What about the “good” theif that Jesus was crucified. Jesus assured him of his salvation once he heard the Theif confess his faith.

Luke 23:42
“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Jesus answered him, “i tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

This guy went to heaven without baptism, and without ANY good works! AT ALL!

Works are a part of it though. To quote paul.
“I preached everywhere that they should turn to God and repent, proving their repentance by their deeds” acts 26:20

For one thing, as others have pointed out, we don’t know what good works the thief may have performed before Calvary. The Bible doesn’t say he performed any – but it doesn’t say he didn’t. So while we can’t say that he did perform any good works, we can’t rule it out.

Second, the thief wasn’t in any position to perform any physical good works during the short time we hear about him, that is, while he was on the cross. Say there was a quadriplegic Christian that could not perform physical good works. Would God hold that against him? No, because he is not physically able to perform them. However, there are plenty of other things he could do (and sins he could commit, for that matter) that don’t require physical motion that God could hold him accountable for.

Which brings us to the third point. There are a number of things we see the good thief do that could, indeed, qualify as good works:

**Luke 23:39-42:
39
Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.”
40
The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, “Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? **
Here the good thief comes to the defense of Jesus, when he could have continued to revile him. “So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 10:32-34)
**41
And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal.” **
The confesses his guilt before Jesus, and acknowledges Jesus’ innocence. How would he know that, by the way? It seems clear that he may have been, in some manner, a disciple of Jesus before this time.
**42
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” **
Again, how does he know about Jesus’ kingdom? Jesus has spoken only a few times from the cross, and nothing about his kingdom. Again, we can presume some type of previous life as a disciple before this time. Once he is transfixed to the cross, however, all that is left for him to do is make a final act of repentence by the only means left to him – his words.
If that wasn’t the answer you were thinking of, here’s a link to the whole thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1696265#post1696265

 

[dan85]

But surly this thief would have to spend a very long time in puragatory for his purification process to enter heaven. He must have done some very evil sins to be condemed to death.

 

[The_Augustinian]

But surly this thief would have to spend a very long time in puragatory for his purification process to enter heaven. He must have done some very evil sins to be condemed to death.

However, Jesus did say to him, “Truly, this day you will be with Me in Paradise.” Paradise refers to the Limbo of the Fathers, or Abraham’s Bosom, a part of Sheol where the spirits of the righteous dead resided. Of course, St. Dismas the Good Thief was not there for long, because Jesus emptied this place and all went to Heaven at His ressurection.

 

[Vincent]

One claim I’ve heard is that the Good Thief had works-- he corrected his crucified compatriot, who taunted Jesus. In other words, he admonished a sinner and instructed the ignorant, both of which are spiritual works of mercy.

However, I would **not **use this to show that his works (along with his faith) got him into the state of justification from the state of non-justification.

According to the Council of Trent, “none of those things which precede justification —whether faith or works— merit the grace itself of justification.”

Thus we have two observations:

1. 
   *]If the Good Thief was justified **after **he admonished and corrected the Wicked Thief, these works did not justify him in the sense of moving him “from the state in which man is born a son of the first Adam, to the state of grace and adoption as sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ our Savior” (c.f. Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4).
   
   *]If the Good Thief was justified **before **he admonished and corrected the Wicked Thief, then these works increased the justification he had already received (c.f. Trent, Session 6, Chapter 10).

 

[Odell]

Tahks for all the reply very good.

 

[Fidelis]

One claim I’ve heard is that the Good Thief had works-- he corrected his crucified compatriot, who taunted Jesus. In other words, he admonished a sinner and instructed the ignorant, both of which are spiritual works of mercy.

However, I would **not **use this to show that his works (along with his faith) got him into the state of justification from the state of non-justification.

According to the Council of Trent, “none of those things which precede justification —whether faith or works— merit the grace itself of justification.”

Thus we have two observations:

1. 
   *]If the Good Thief was justified **after **he admonished and corrected the Wicked Thief, these works did not justify him in the sense of moving him “from the state in which man is born a son of the first Adam, to the state of grace and adoption as sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ our Savior” (c.f. Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4).
   
   *]If the Good Thief was justified **before **he admonished and corrected the Wicked Thief, then these works increased the justification he had already received (c.f. Trent, Session 6, Chapter 10).

1. 
   I agree.
   
   I personally think that the scene we see in the Gospel is only the culmination or events in his life that led to the salvation of the good thief. Perhaps he had changed his ways after following Jesus, but had only just now was arrested and executed, at which time he acknowledged his guilt.
   
   BTW, this story is also the worst “proof” some Protestants have against the necessity of baptism. Just like it was physically impossible to perform good works, it was physically impossible for this particular person to be baptised. But God is not limited by his own rules. And, again, we don’t know that he wasn’t baptised previously.

 

[Brendan]

The penitent thief was actually saved by “baptism of desire”.

Not necessarily. The requirement of Baptism was instituted in in the Great Commission (Mt 28)

That happened AFTER the Ressurection.

So the thief was saved the same way that St. Joseph or St. John the Baptist was. By singular acts of Grace

 

[Brendan]

But surly this thief would have to spend a very long time in puragatory for his purification process to enter heaven.

The willing acceptance of just temporal punishment for one’s sins is an indulgenced action.

He must have done some very evil sins to be condemed to death.

Not necessarily. This was a very cruel time we are talking about. It could have been something as minor as stealing a wineskin from a Roman guard.

 

[Milliardo]

Did the thief did any good work? He certainly did; he suffered along with Jesus, for one. Jesus didn’t stop them and said, “You don’t have to do this, since I will do it on your behalf.” They walked with him. The difference lies in how they accepted that grace–the one mocked Jesus, while the other admonished him and recognized his own sins. So, we can see that he did quite a few things–suffering, repentance and acceptance. In the end, he asked the Lord to remember him in Paradise, in which Jesus, seeing how that man accepted that grace of suffering with Christ.

 

[Odell]

again thanks for all the replies very good.

 

[tequilamac]

But surly this thief would have to spend a very long time in puragatory for his purification process to enter heaven. He must have done some very evil sins to be condemed to death.

Why? Jesus was condemned to death and what had He done?

I’m not sure that being condemned to death in those days was indicative of any type of reasonable system of justice.
Perhaps the thief had stolen a loaf of bread or perhaps he ran off with a Roman chariot and parted it out at a chop shop. Who knows?

 

[vern_humphrey]

But surly this thief would have to spend a very long time in puragatory for his purification process to enter heaven. He must have done some very evil sins to be condemed to death.

First of all, what evil sins did Jesus commit to be condemned to death? The death penalty is no proof of great guilt.

Second, God has the power to forgive all sins – completely.

Third, we do not know that Purgatory is a “place” nor that there is time there. These matters occur outside of our frame of time and space.