What about Thomas?

[RAGGANDI]

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. 13 The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21
14 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
16 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
24
Thomas, called Didymus, one of the Twelve, *was not with them when Jesus came. *
So does this mean that Thomas did not receive the priesthood? Or does he receive it in Acts 2: 1-4? Or am I missing something? .

 

[epostle]

Jesus instituted the sacrament of Holy Orders with the washing of the feet. Thomas didn’t miss out. He just wasn’t there at this point. I think God knew Thomas had a thick skull and kept him busy to teach him a lesson. And all of us too.

 

[RAGGANDI]

I guess where I’m confused is this: When Jesus washes their feet, He is telling them to use this as an example of how to treat one another and their “flocks”. They are not explicitly given the “power” to forgive or retain sins until He breathes on them and instills the Holy Spirit after the Resurrection. And Thomas is not there that night Kind of like a Holy Orders by desire? Do you think that, because He is God and can do anything He wants that He included Thomas no matter where he was that night? And that He deliberately kept Thomas away to be able to provide an example of “faith without seeing?” I’m not trying to be dense here, and I know that Thomas received the Holy Spirit from Christ at some point–it’s just not “spelled out” for me anywhere that I could find.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

This kind of reminds me of Numbers 11:24-30. The Spirit of the Lord comes upon the elders. Eldad and Medad are two of the elders but they are back at the camp. Even though they are not with the others, the Spirit comes on them too. Maybe this is what happened with Thomas since a lot of the new testament parallels the old testament.

Or, of course, Jesus could have given Thomas the Spirit at another time.

 

[JimG]

It is my understanding that Jesus instuted the sacrament of holy orders at the Last Supper, when he told when he told the apostles to ‘do this in memory of me.’ He also of course instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist at that time. The sacrament of reconciliation was apparently instituted by Christ at the time you describe, but Thomas was already a priest by then; he would have received this new power by virtue of his priesthood (actually his 'bishop’hood, since the apostles were the first bishops.)

 

[FlatAffect]

I am not saying I am right nor I am trying to convince anyone else but I’ve always thought of Thomas as a Protestant version of the first Apostles. He’s not there when Jesus gives the power to forgive and retain sins so I’ve always thought perhaps he represents the believers who don’t believe in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He doesn’t believe until he has actual proof. It’s like a Protestant–they don’t believe in the Eucharist although Jesus is present because they can’t see or touch something that is too unbelievable for them.

 

[Ignatius]

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. 13 The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21
14 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
16 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
24
Thomas, called Didymus, one of the Twelve, *was not with them when Jesus came. *
So does this mean that Thomas did not receive the priesthood? Or does he receive it in Acts 2: 1-4? Or am I missing something? .

Keep reading, Thomas was there the following week.

 

[RAGGANDI]

Keep reading, Thomas was there the following week.

Yes, but this time it’s to prove to Thomas that He is truly risen. There is no mention of “priestly” duties (at least that we know of from the scripture)–Jesus could very well have taken him aside and said, “You know, Thomas, that what I said last week goes for you, too.” I’m tending to lean towards this scenario. He was just using Thomas to show the rest of us that He understands there will be doubts, and that we must believe in spite of them. Or rather, that our faith will be stronger if we believe despite our doubts.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

One might note the example of Numbers11:24-27, where Eldad and Medad received the anointing as leaders even though they were not with the rest of the 70 at the time.

24 So Moses went out and told the people the words of the LORD; and he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people, and placed them round about the tent. 25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the spirit that was upon him and put it upon the seventy elders; and when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did so no more. 26 Now two men remained in the camp, one named Eldad, and the other named Medad, and the spirit rested upon them; they were among those registered, but they had not gone out to the tent, and so they prophesied in the camp. 27 And a young man ran and told Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.”

 

[didymus]

Jesus instituted the sacrament of Holy Orders with the washing of the feet. Thomas didn’t miss out. He just wasn’t there at this point. I think God knew Thomas had a thick skull and kept him busy to teach him a lesson. And all of us too.

Let’s quit picking on my patron here. Look at the record:

Joh 20:19 In the evening of that same day, the first day of the week, the doors were closed in the room where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews. Jesus came and stood among them. He said to them, ‘Peace be with you,’
Joh 20:20 and, after saying this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples were filled with joy at seeing the Lord,

So Jesus had to offer proof to those present before they rejoiced at seeing Him, yet none of them are called doubters.

Joh 20:24 Thomas, called the Twin, who was one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples said to him, ‘We have seen the Lord,’ but he answered, ‘Unless I can see the holes that the nails made in his hands and can put my finger into the holes they made, and unless I can put my hand into his side, I refuse to believe.’

Forgive me if I believe John has edited the conversation a little. I’ll bet it went something like:

Apostles: We’ve seen the Lord!
Didymus: No!
Apostles: He just appeared in the room even though the door was locked.
Didymus: Like magic?
Apostles: It’s really Him, He showed us the wounds in his hands and side.
Didymus: Well, when he shows me I’ll believe it.

All of which John dramatises with a single memorable line from Thomas – common practice for ancient writers, including the evangelists.

NOW – did Didymus commit a sin by refusing to believe the teaching authority of Peter (Pope) and his brother bishops who had, in effect, just declared the Resurrection?

 

[marymol]

Good to see this topic , since it is not brought up in sermons , yet may be many wonder about …

One point that is heard , isthat the episode brings up the need to be with the community of the Apostles - as in The Church …

Those days when he was not with them, was he out trying to find what happened - esp. with lies being spread about our Lord’s Body being stolen … and later , false gospels will be wrtitten in name of St.Thomas …after all ,in his zeal and dedication, he had proclaimed his intent to even die with our Lord … to take part in His sufferings … and he too becomes an object of lies , as in the false gospels …and St.Thomas was to be sent to a pagan land , with its abounding lies that mimic much of the Truth !

Good to see the mention of how he could have recieved The Spirit , even when not physically present …and may be it is that Power that even brought him back to be with the apostles …

In Rome , there is the relic of his finger that touched our Lord …

Did the Spirit and Power of our Risen Lord , flow in to him, at that point, for a double anointing - like for the woman with the heammorhage …that he makes that double enduring declaration
-"My Lord and my God "…

’ I send you as The Father has sent Me …’ - could St.Thomas , now confirmed in his faith and humility , have asked St.Peter , for him to receieve the full apostolic authority …that it is used as an occsion by our Lord, to depict the orderliness of His ways …that is to be preserved and protected in The Church …to be passed on down …

’ Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples that are not written in this book ’ - John 20:30
Remember reading somewhere that this might have been the occasion of our Lord , teaching the disciples , the rubrics of The Holy Mass …( as Moses was taught on the mountain top )

In the next chapter , St.Thomas is mentioned, right after St.Peter , at the fishing scene …symbolic for its catch of believers into the Kingdom …

The Church he was to found in India - Syro- Malabar, while has a sketchy history too, may be have some parallels with the above events … a history of being (unintentionally ) almost lost to the main Body of The Church , for a while …now, in humility, loyal to the Office of St.Peter and seemingly well blessed , in its abundant catch …doubly blessed , in many ways , esp. its peaceful acceptance, with gratitude , of much that is good , in The Church …and may be to be used by our Lord, for a proclamation to ring through and through - ’ My Lord and my God '!

St.Thomas , pray for us !

 

[RAGGANDI]

So Jesus had to offer proof to those present before they rejoiced at seeing Him, yet none of them are called doubters

But my impression is that He deliberately hid Himself from them (supernaturally) at those times until He wished them to see Him. Just like He did when Mary Magdalene thought He was a gardener, and when Peter and John met Him on the road to town, and again when He appeared to all of them at the shore while they were fishing just before the Ascension. With Thomas, it was more like the Israelites in Egypt who had hardened their hearts and kept needing more and more proof of God’s presence, although Thomas was very quick to soften his heart.