This argument only proves that not all people receive the help they need to believe and be converted immediately. It does not, however, prove that some people are deprived, absolutely speaking, of sufficient help for salvation. For the pagans to whom the Gospel has not yet been preached, can know from His creatures that God exists; then they can be stimulated by God, through His preventing grace, to believe in God, that He exists and that He is the rewarder of those who seek Him: and from such faith, they can be inspired, under the guidance and help of God, to pray and give alms and in this way obtain from God a still greater light of faith, which God will communicate to them, either by Himself or through angels or through men.
Assuming you die in a state of grace. Baptism in itself is not sufficient for salvation unless you die immediately after being baptised.Todd quoted the doctrine of invincible ignorance. I would just add that it is still very important to evangelize the world. It’s POSSIBLE to be saved apart from Christian Baptism, but the Church cannot say if anyone has actually done so, or exactly how it works. On the other hand,** Christian Baptism offers a 100% guarantee.**
A guarantee is better than a possibility.
Are you saying that we will invariably fall into mortal sin in the very instant AFTER being Baptized?Assuming you die in a state of grace. Baptism in itself is not sufficient for salvation unless you die immediately after being baptised.
Where did I say that? You are now fabricating comments I did not make. Please be careful!!Are you saying that we will invariably fall into mortal sin in the very instant AFTER being Baptized?
Can you cite that?
Can we assume, by extension, that you feel that any Christian who has committed mortal sin, but has confessed and been absolved of it, is damned if he does not happen to die immediately after his Confession?
It’s the same thing, you know. And it is the heresy of albigensianism.
People under this circumstance so far removed that have never heard the gospel PR never known about the church without a doubt would fall under invincible ignorance.I’m talking about people like those who live within lost tribes in the Congo or the Amazon. What is the Church’s position on the souls of those who have never heard the Word of God or have never heard of Jesus Christ?
You said,Where did I say that? You are now fabricating comments I did not make. Please be careful!!
I think a plain reading of that statement says that if you die an hour (or a day, or a week) after Baptism then you will invariably commit mortal sin. You did, after all, use the word “immediately” - the word meansBaptism in itself is not sufficient for salvation unless you die immediately after being baptised.
Presumably, if it applies to Baptism, it applies to Confession as well, since both impart the same Grace (Baptismal Grace). If we will invariably loose our Baptismal Grace an hour after getting wet, we would loose it again an hour after Confession.without lapse of time; without delay; instantly; at once. [dictionary.com]
That’s all I have ever said. According to the Church, there are exactly two ways of receiving Baptismal Grace: Baptism and Confession. Nothing else whatsoever imparts saving Grace.To be saved you must die in a state of grace.
I think you need glasses. I did not say the things you fabricated.You said,
I think a plain reading of that statement says that if you die an hour (or a day, or a week) after Baptism then you will invariably commit mortal sin. You did, after all, use the word “immediately” - the word means
Presumably, if it applies to Baptism, it applies to Confession as well, since both impart the same Grace (Baptismal Grace). If we will invariably loose our Baptismal Grace an hour after getting wet, we would loose it again an hour after Confession.
You might not have intended to say it (and you walked it back), but you DID say it. So lay off the self-righteous indignation.
That’s all I have ever said. According to the Church, there are exactly two ways of receiving Baptismal Grace: Baptism and Confession. Nothing else whatsoever imparts saving Grace.
That would be the same as for those who did not hear Jesus when He walked the Earth in the flesh, or those who had lived before The Incarnation.I’m talking about people like those who live within lost tribes in the Congo or the Amazon. What is the Church’s position on the souls of those who have never heard the Word of God or have never heard of Jesus Christ?