What am I doing wrong?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bracken
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bracken

Guest
I was born a Catholic, educated in a Convent school married aged 24 in a Catholic Church to a man who was virtually a lapsed Catholic.
At 37 when my Children were 6, 4,and 6 months, I found it impossible to take them all to church with me and control them.
My husband worked shifts and was only off 1 Sunday in 4 so I used to go to Church when he was home to look after them.
We had moved to a new area where I did not know anyone well enough to trust them to look after my children every Sunday morning…which I felt would be an imposition anyway, and all my family lived miles away.
The Parish priest visited me in the week
I found him to be a rather rude man who, when offered a cup of tea, said “have you not got anything stronger”
I found some whiskey at the back of a cupboard and gave him a measure.
His conversation was challenging and I was uncomfortable
and then he asked why I didn’t go to Sunday Mass more regularly.
I explained and he said "if you can’t make the full commitment, don’t bother coming at all.
and then he made for the door and was gone.
I was amazed and devastated.
That was how I left the Catholic Church.
First I thought if I was not a Catholic I could not be a Christian but eventually started going to Church in other denominations.
First was Pentecostal then Baptist and then CoE.
I even started studying under a JW but found them to be so full of hate, particularly towards Catholicism, that I stopped.
26 years later, 2008, I had a "word from God " and left the CoE.
The same week I had to go to visit a Catholic priest because I had been asked to be Godmother.
I ended up telling him the whole story (I have given you the short version!) and he agreed, I had had a word from God.
He apologised for the priest who was the cause of my leaving and I made my confession then and there and returned.
My husband arrived to pick me up at this point.(his leaving was caused by a thoughtless priest too)
The priest spoke to him too and he also came back to faith and has not missed a Sunday since.
When I was going to other Churches I threw myself into studying theology and scripture and gained a certificate which allows me to be a reader/lay preacher in the Church of England.
I do not consider this time wasted as, although there are many differences between CoE and Catholicism, there is much in common and I have always been aware of what the differences were.
Things have changed in the Church since I left. there is a different attitude to things and this is as a result of Vatican II.
I am busily studying the Catechism…which is a large book now compared to the little thing I had to study when I was a child.
I am also reading books on Catholic theology, papers published by the Vatican, the writings of saints like Catherine of Sienna …in fact I am studying anything Catholic that I can lay my hands on.
I find that there is very little I need to adjust in my thinking now.
I did have a protestant influenced problem with things like purgatory, praying to saints and the blessed Virgin, but once I discussed these things with the priest, read the Catechism and prayed about it, I have nothing I cannot accept.

Now to my problem:

I recently joined a forum and in process of discussing various topics, was vehemently accused of being a “liberal Catholic” and denounced roundly by one of the Catholic members.

This has hurt me greatly.
(the priest who led me back has left and the new one is not so approachable)
I have never lost my deep faith in God and have met many truly Christian people in other denominations and cannot say that because they are not Catholic they will not go to heaven.
In fact, I think the Catechism says something similar.
I think it is because of this view that He called me Liberal…
I truly believe that the Holy Spirit guides us all to the place where God wants us to be in our Christian walk.
He has certainly guided me.
But this person rejects this as well.
I also said that the Catholic Church is important but God has to be more important than the Church…this too he thought was wrong.
I have taken up too much space in explaining my position to go into a lot of detail about this…but in fact, there is little else I have said that this man could take exception to.

Is my attitude wrong?
I do not think I can move from these things but I do not wish to lose what I have gained at the end of this particular long journey.

I would appreciate your candid comments.
 
Is my attitude wrong?
I do not think I can move from these things but I do not wish to lose what I have gained at the end of this particular long journey.
I don’t think so. I think you must be called to Catholicism because you are attracted to it even though some priests are buffoons.

Some of the posters here are buffoons. Some of them, in fact, consider me to be one.

Don’t let some random people on the Internet steal your joy or your faith, even if they are Catholic scholars. We should listen to them to learn, but do not act like them and do not take their attitudes personally.

I have a couple more ideas that I’d rather send to you via PM.

Keep the faith, and don’t give up on the Church; it’s full of sinners, including those who don’t consider themselves as such.

Alan

P.S. oh, and welcome to Catholic Answers.
 
I don’t think you are doing anything wrong, other than caring too much about what someone else said.

You know the truth. You know that God knows the truth.

Does it matter what someone else said? Only he and God knows what motivated him to say such a thing.

You’ve had quite a journey and have, with the grace of God, found your way back home.

Be secure in yourself and trust in God. (Easier said than done, I know. But still…)
 
Maybe you could pray for this man, because if he’s judging you, that’s not very Christian, so instead of wondering what you’re doing wrong when others seem to judge you, realize that they possibly need your prayers.You were chased away from the Church by someone who may have lost his way a little, so don’t allow any other human take away your faith and your place in the Church again…we are all fallible, even those who set themselves up as as being better than us. Perhaps you would be best not to allow other humans to take away your peace.

Maybe instead of remaining in a Forum that undermines you, you might benefit in finding a couple of good, sincere Catholic friends…I wonder. You’re doing fine!
You are studying the Catechism, and no doubt the New Testament…and of course God is paramount. God has told us to love God above all. The Church is God’s gift.
 
I was born a Catholic, educated in a Convent school married aged 24 in a Catholic Church to a man who was virtually a lapsed Catholic.
At 37 when my Children were 6, 4,and 6 months, I found it impossible to take them all to church with me and control them.
My husband worked shifts and was only off 1 Sunday in 4 so I used to go to Church when he was home to look after them.
We had moved to a new area where I did not know anyone well enough to trust them to look after my children every Sunday morning…which I felt would be an imposition anyway, and all my family lived miles away.
The Parish priest visited me in the week
I found him to be a rather rude man who, when offered a cup of tea, said “have you not got anything stronger”
I found some whiskey at the back of a cupboard and gave him a measure.
His conversation was challenging and I was uncomfortable
and then he asked why I didn’t go to Sunday Mass more regularly.
I explained and he said "if you can’t make the full commitment, don’t bother coming at all.
and then he made for the door and was gone.
I was amazed and devastated.
That was how I left the Catholic Church.
First I thought if I was not a Catholic I could not be a Christian but eventually started going to Church in other denominations.
First was Pentecostal then Baptist and then CoE.
I even started studying under a JW but found them to be so full of hate, particularly towards Catholicism, that I stopped.
26 years later, 2008, I had a "word from God " and left the CoE.
The same week I had to go to visit a Catholic priest because I had been asked to be Godmother.
I ended up telling him the whole story (I have given you the short version!) and he agreed, I had had a word from God.
He apologised for the priest who was the cause of my leaving and I made my confession then and there and returned.
My husband arrived to pick me up at this point.(his leaving was caused by a thoughtless priest too)
The priest spoke to him too and he also came back to faith and has not missed a Sunday since.
When I was going to other Churches I threw myself into studying theology and scripture and gained a certificate which allows me to be a reader/lay preacher in the Church of England.
I do not consider this time wasted as, although there are many differences between CoE and Catholicism, there is much in common and I have always been aware of what the differences were.
Things have changed in the Church since I left. there is a different attitude to things and this is as a result of Vatican II.
I am busily studying the Catechism…which is a large book now compared to the little thing I had to study when I was a child.
I am also reading books on Catholic theology, papers published by the Vatican, the writings of saints like Catherine of Sienna …in fact I am studying anything Catholic that I can lay my hands on.
I find that there is very little I need to adjust in my thinking now.
I did have a protestant influenced problem with things like purgatory, praying to saints and the blessed Virgin, but once I discussed these things with the priest, read the Catechism and prayed about it, I have nothing I cannot accept.

Now to my problem:

I recently joined a forum and in process of discussing various topics, was vehemently accused of being a “liberal Catholic” and denounced roundly by one of the Catholic members.

This has hurt me greatly.
(the priest who led me back has left and the new one is not so approachable)
I have never lost my deep faith in God and have met many truly Christian people in other denominations and cannot say that because they are not Catholic they will not go to heaven.
In fact, I think the Catechism says something similar.
I think it is because of this view that He called me Liberal…
I truly believe that the Holy Spirit guides us all to the place where God wants us to be in our Christian walk.
He has certainly guided me.
But this person rejects this as well.
I also said that the Catholic Church is important but God has to be more important than the Church…this too he thought was wrong.
I have taken up too much space in explaining my position to go into a lot of detail about this…but in fact, there is little else I have said that this man could take exception to.

Is my attitude wrong?
I do not think I can move from these things but I do not wish to lose what I have gained at the end of this particular long journey.

I would appreciate your candid comments.
**My experience with leaving the CC, studying on my own, becoming involved with Pentecostalism, studying with JWs, and returning to the CC was similar to yours. As a result, you’ve more than likely come to see more deeply the important aspects of our faith. For myself, love has taken the center-stage in understanding Catholic teaching/theology. Everything is based on and must be weighed according to that one virtue, without compromising any other teaching, of course. I sometimes now find myself feeling a bit trapped-considered too traditional by liberals and too liberal by traditionalists. Maybe that means I’m doing something right. In any case, I don’t care-I’ve been through enough to know something about this God our faith directs us to and His heart is the heart of Love, first and foremost. **
 
Don’t listen to people who detract from your testimony and vision. Without meaning to, they are sometimes the source of discouragement.
You have an amazing story of “reversion” and I think you should tell it to all who will listen!
 
The Catholic Church is a big organisation; there are many slightly differing views in it, and so long as your views don’t contradict Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture there is no problem is slight disagreements, in fact even famous Saints have Criticised the Church, to name a few Examples; St. Peter Damian, St Paul of Tarsus, St Anthony Mary Claret etc. So having slightly different views is ok.

Just because someone is a Catholic does not make them perfect, even St Peter denied Jesus. Don’t let it bother you too much, and set a good example by forgiving them.

You can always approach your Priest, even if he seems a little difficult too at first, that is what they are there for!

I see you are in Essex/East London, which is in the Diocese of Brentwood (I am too) so 👍
 
Bracken, welcome home and welcome to CAF.

No, you did not do anything wrong. Everyone has his or her own opinion, some could be very strong and crude. Do not give anyone the power to belittle you with their words. Do not allow that person’s accuse or anyone else’s argument to bother you.

Be at peace, God bless!
 
When discussions get heated or if someone is not receptive to what you are saying even though you know they are wrong it is really best to bow out politely and move on. Agreeing to disagree even if you know without a doubt that they are wrong.

Why? Because for one thing, some people are simply un-reachable for one reason or another, and by respectfully acknowledging differences in beliefs with others we are exercising love towards our fellow man/woman.

St. Paul writes:

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:1-2 (NIV)

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
1 Corinthians 13:8 (NIV)
 
I truly believe that the Holy Spirit guides us all to the place where God wants us to be in our Christian walk. He has certainly guided me.
I agree with you there. We are all on a spiritual journey with (hopefully) the same destination. But we are not in the same point in the road and we don’t move at the same pace. We go as far as we can and ask God to help us when we falter. I believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth, but I’m know I’m not capable of taking it all in right now. I sometimes question why we believe what we believe, but I’m willing to accept the truth of it.

Having said that [now putting on asbestos suit to repel flames], I notice there is a certain attitude of the Pharisee in some Catholics. You can recognize it when you hear someone say something along these lines: You must always follow the letter of the law exactly, you must always do everything in the prescribed manner, you must always have the correct attitude. Now, I will not be the person to tell you to just do things your own way and never mind if it’s correct or not. But I will say that if all your attention is so focussed on the how it’s very easy to forget the why, which is always for the glory of God. If someone is berating you for being wrong, they don’t care about your spiritual well-being, they just like being right. Take it with a grain of salt, look for the truth that might be there, and ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Peace be with you,
 
bracken, it sounds like you are doing fine. Don’t listen to the fella who is telling you that you are wrong. We are a very big Church and have people in it of many variety of backgrounds, opinions, etc. The places where there must be unity is on the Faith itself (teachings, etc). Read up on the saints, etc. You will find that some of them criticized some of the stuff that was going on in the Church. I would suggest that you immerse yourself in the Faith, worldview, culture, etc. You didn’t do anything wrong :). God bless you.
 
Hi bracken!

I vote with the “pray for this person” contingent. Go your own way and don’t worry. Welcome back to the Catholic Church!! 👍

Many people feel that their way is the ONLY way. Funny, I think that God’s way is the only way. 😉 Heaven knows I am not always right! As for being conservative, traditional, liberal, etc., I don’t pay attention to labels. I pay attention to the heart and soul of a person, not what they are called by others.

God bless, welcome back and have a very wonderful day! :tiphat:
 
Bracken, Bless you for struggling so well. My hat is off to you.

I recommend you be very careful about how much time you spend in forums (go in for specific reasons/questions).

I even more strongly recommend that you work on developing a stronger interior life which will carry you well between Masses. This will keep you going in between all the various ups and downs brought about by people (posters on forums, disinterested/over busy priests, etc.).

Interior life: This is God in your soul.

One way to think about developing a stronger interior life, a stronger presence of God during the day, is to think of “telephone poles”.

Hear me out. Think of two telephone poles spanning some distance (call one pole Christmas, call the other pole Easter). What happens to the wire strung across between poles that far apart? Tension, sagging.

Now, what if there were more poles in between. Call them Sundays 1 through n. Less sagging, less tension.

What if there were many more poles (approaches to God) in between Sundays, less sagging, even less tension.

Call them things like Morning offering, Rosary, 15 minutes of daily mental prayer, 5 minutes of reading the Gospel each day, prayers at meals, short exam at night.

So, without knowing you…and without knowing much, this is what I recommend. A stronger interior life to help you through difficulties, especially brought by others.

Just a thought.

God Bless.
 
Thank you so much everyone for your excellent replies.
You have all greatly encouraged me.

I have actually left that forum and, yes, I am praying for this man.
I recently read some great stuff in Catherine of Sienna’s Dialogue, that we should indeed pray for and feel compassion for people like this as, they cannot hurt us if our pride is abandoned (how hard that is!) but that person is hurting their own spirit by behaving in a less than loving way.
Put like that it takes the sting out of things.

I am a bit vulnerable at the moment as there is a lot going on both with my own health and with others around me and their problems.
If there is a prayer section here, I will be posting in it about all this. Could someone please point me to it as I am sure there must be?

I have been a moderator on a Christian forum for almost 6 years but it had to close down as the workload was too much for the owner.
so I do know the pitfalls of becoming addicted to them.
As I have to spend a lot of time resting at the moment, posting on a forum is a good way to pass the time.
I actually learned quite a bit about Catholicism through the need to defend it constantly on my old forum because of so many errors and myths that people believe about us and our Church.
I did this even before I came back.

Like fhansen who had a similar journey, I do believe that God used my time away to give me a broader outlook regarding other denominations and Christians in them.
I do not think it has done me any harm as my faith in God is has grown enormously over the years.
This is due to life’s trials that I have gone through and acquiring the ability to put things in God’s hands. I still find it hard to remember to do this but I only have to look back at previous experiences of his provision to be inspired to do it again.

For example, at present I am bedridden because of osteoarthritis and an ankle flare up…hence the vulnerability.
It has taken them ages, months, to diagnose exactly what is wrong and at first I was most frustrated by it…but through prayer and giving the thing to God I have learned to be patient and quell my frustration.
So I really should have done the same thing with this man’s comments instead of taking them to heart.
Edward H:
You are absolutely right about developing an interior life.
I know that this is needed.
I love your telegraph pole analogy
I pray quite often through the day but I need to develop a more disciplined approach to these things rather than the higaldy-pigaldy way I go about it.

John Damien…what a coincidence that you should live in the same diocese as me!
I live in Barking…where are you?

Oh dear, another long post!
But that’s me, I never say one word when 10 will do!

One last thing to encourage those of you who have a lapsed or non believing spouse.
I have been married for 40 years and in all that time I have prayed for my husband to return to faith.
Sometime I will post the ins and outs of how we came back, but God most certainly had a hand in it…so, never give up praying for your wife or husband as God is good and He does answer prayer…but it has to be in His time and not ours.

Love and God’s blessings to you all for being so supportive…thanks once again.
 
conversion, ur doing it rite!! thanks for your story you have helped many others

you are not doing anything wrong, except to engage in discussion with someone who calls himself Catholic yet leaves his Christian values at the door when he goes on the internet. Not a rare thing sadly. If you go back there, suggest he read what James says in his epistle about sins of the tongue, and what Jesus said about the sin of calling people names. A Catholic who flings words like liberal and trad around as labels betrays an ignorance of the matter under discussion because he has run out of facts and must rely on personal attacks. Not worthy of debate or consideration.

If you are making any mistake it is the one you made before, which is confusing the harmful, destructive, unwise, ill-considered, even sinful actions of individual Catholics, including priests, for the actions of the universal Church. The Church herself is holy because her head, Jesus Christ is holy, not because her members or even because her earthly leaders and servants are holy, although we thank God when some of them are holy. Look beyong individual Catholics to the Truth and the source of that Truth, and cling to Jesus Christ, cast all your cares on him, place your faith in him. And in acknowledging our own failings and need for forgiveness we can arrive at a place where we can forgive those who have hurt us, and remove their power to create a barrier between ourselves and Christ.
 
Saint Catherine of Siena is absolutely splendid isn’t she? Reading Bl. Raymond’s biography of her is a joy.

‘Father, I am hungry; for the love of God give this soul her food, her Lord in the Eucharist. . .’

St. Catherine of Siena
 
Thank you for the link Alan
Also thanks for the PM. I will be in touch.

Thank you for your encouraging words puzzleannie, you are speaking my language!

Shin, thank you for the quote.
I am reading “the dialogue” and it is taking some doing to digest and appreciate what she is saying.
But I have learned so much just in the first 100 or so pages.
 
Thank you for the link Alan
Also thanks for the PM. I will be in touch.

Thank you for your encouraging words puzzleannie, you are speaking my language!

Shin, thank you for the quote.
I am reading “the dialogue” and it is taking some doing to digest and appreciate what she is saying.
But I have learned so much just in the first 100 or so pages.
Yes it does take time because everything in works of the saints is so splendidly deep!

I think the Dialogue or Bl. Raymond’s Life would be a great book to do a book study online with at some point. 😃

Our Lord said to St. Catherine of Siena, “Daughter, think of me, and I will always think of you.”
 
I really must share this

I have been trying to develop a habit of prayer morning and evening.
Normally I pray when I feel like it, either to praise God for something good or for his protection regarding something bad.
I have found that I pray daily and several times but the Church seems to be telling us to pray Morning and evening.
Most nights I “talk to God” before I go to sleep so, thinking that a more formal prayer was being advocated, and perhaps therefore more pleasing to God, I am trying
However:
Last night I was very tired and it took a lot of effort to say an Our Father, a Hail Mary and a Glory be.
This morning I woke up thinking that surely God cannot appreciate prayers said in this ritual way, It did not bring me close to God but was rather a chore and I don’t think God wants us to pray with this attitude.
Something prompted me to pick up my Dialogue of Catherine of Siena .
I decided to dip into it and was leafing through the pages when I came across a slip of paper left there by a previous owner.
So I read the page it was marking.
To my amazement it addressed the exact thing I had been thinking about.
catholictreasury.info/books/dialogue/index.php
I found this on line
hope that link works…
go to "a treatise on prayer " and read the first two chapters.

Also, written on the slip of paper was the date: 23rd July.

Now I don’t think that has any significance but wouldn’t it be amazing if something special did happen on that date?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top