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cabolissa
Guest
What are some valid claims for nullity of marriage?
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kevinsgirl
Guest
Well one example would be if a spouse knowingly kept something from the other person before marriage that would have possibly changed the other person’s mind about getting married…
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1ke
Guest
The requirements for marriage are found in Canon Law, which you can google.
There is not a list of “grounds” for a decree of nullity floating around anywhere. What constitutes grounds is either a presence of an impediment or a defect in one of the requirements (such as intent, consent, or form) as defined in Canon Law.
I highly recommend the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster.
There is not a list of “grounds” for a decree of nullity floating around anywhere. What constitutes grounds is either a presence of an impediment or a defect in one of the requirements (such as intent, consent, or form) as defined in Canon Law.
I highly recommend the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster.
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cabolissa
Guest
In his early 20’s my husband was married in a non-Catholic christian ceremony and divorced 6 months later. To my knowledge, his prior wedding was not anulled. But we did do the marriage prep at our parish prior to our Catholic ceremony. Is my marriage valid?
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1ke
Guest
That is a question for your priest. Start with him.
If your husband is Catholic, then he may have what is called defect of form. There is paperwork to do for that, and it’s possible that was taken care of during your premarital preparation and you just aren’t recognizing it as such-- there’s a lot going on when one is preparing for marriage. Perhaps your priest even “took care of” the paperwork for your husband.
If he’s a non-Catholic, then there are more factors.
Since you went through marriage prep, one would assume all of this was addressed at that time. He did disclose his prior marriage to the priest preparing you, didn’t he?
Go back to the source and discuss with your priest. Presume your marriage is valid since you were married in the Church, but if it is really bothering you-- go talk to your priest.
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Godfollower
Guest
That’s going to depend on a lot of specifics, none of which we can interpret. You’ll need to consult a canon lawyer about it. We can give you some general principles, but that’s all.
First, whether his prior marriage counts will depend on several factors involving his beliefs at the time as well as the bride’s beliefs. For example, if he and his wife were both Catholic but that marriage ceremony failed to meet the requirements of Catholic canon law, it might not have been a valid celebration of the Sacrament of Matrimony – meaning that he wasn’t married in the eyes of the Church, meaning that his prior wedding was not an impediment to your wedding to him. There are a lot of details the canon lawyer would need to know.
Second, the Church does not “annul” weddings (that is, it doesn’t actively do anything to make them retroactively valid or not); all it does is issue decrees stating that it finds that a particular celebration of matrimony was or was not valid in the eyes of the Church. So, whether or not your husband’s prior wedding was a valid celebration of Matrimony, the existence or non-existence of a decree of nullity does not affect the validity of your marriage to him. BUT (and it’s a very big but): usually, most Catholic priests will not process a request for the Sacrament of Matrimony without such a decree of nullity (one exception would be where the priest inquires into the situation and concludes that the prior celebration was so clearly invalid that no decree is necessary; but if your husband had to go through getting a divorce that doesn’t sound very likely). So, given that your husband went through a celebration of marriage, it’s hard to understand how you successfully obtained a celebration of the Sacrament of Matrimony without a decree of nullity having been obtained.
Third, the validity of your Matrimony only depends in part on the prior wedding. Obviously, if he was already married, then you could not have successfully married him. The existence of a prior, valid matrimony is a complete bar to a successful celebration of the Sacrament of Matrimony; so yours would be invalid; that is what you appear to be asking, and you are correct. On the other hand, if his previous wedding was invalid, that doesn’t ipso facto make your wedding valid; there could be any number of other impediments that made yours invalid (e.g., if you only married him because you were under duress, your vows were invalid, and you aren’t married).
Finally, as to your original question (what are the grounds for annulment of a marriage), you should realize one seemingly minor, but very important, conceptual thing up front: there is no such thing as annulment of a marriage; there is only annulment of a celebration of the Sacrament of Matrimony. To put it another way, the decree of nullity only applies to the wedding, not to the marriage. The point here is that, either you celebrated the Sacrament validly, or you did not. Nothing that happened afterward is relevant; the validity of the Sacrament cannot change retroactively. People sometimes ask, “But we lived together for 25 years and had six children; how can you say we weren’t married?” The answer is, if I and my girlfriend shack up, live together for 25 years, and have six children, we aren’t married – because we never validly celebrated the Sacrament of Matrimony. The same goes for a couple who thought they celebrated the Sacrament but did not, in fact, celebrate it. They aren’t married, either. So, the Church’s focus is on the celebration of the Sacrament, not on what happened later.
In general, with respect to the validity of the Sacrament of Matrimony, the ministers of the Sacrament (that is, the bride and groom) must have validly intended to enter into marriage in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church. The most common problem here is the bride or the groom thinking “Well if it doesn’t work out, we’ll just get a divorce” – if that’s your thinking, then you aren’t in accord with the Church’s teaching regarding the permanency of marriage, so one (or both) of the ministers lacked the required intent to perform a valid Sacrament, so it didn’t happen, so you aren’t married. This particular invalidity, of course, is hard to prove. Others aren’t so hard: one of the ministers was already married, or under duress, or under age, or mentally incapable of taking a vow, or too intoxicated to take a vow, or the vows themselves were wrong, etc. There are a lot of ways the ceremony could be invalid, which is why it’s hard to address your specific situation.
This is all very general, but I hope it helps.
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TigerKitty
Guest
Is a husband’s refusal to have intercourse without a condom grounds for an annulemnt? I also seriously question his ability to selflessly love a child (he cannot selflessly love me.) PS - I had to ASK for relations on the honeymoon. And he was TICKED that we spent 150 pr night on a 3 night hotel stay 1.5 hours from our house. This was for the honeymoon. It is both our first marriage. He makes 100K per year, and I’m not far behind.
He does not answer phone calls EVER. He will not speak to any of his family on the phone form more than a minute. I AM NOT KIDDING. Were I to die in a horrible accident, I would be alone - as I cannot depend on him as my emergency contact.
I have no family, and this behaviour is intensely painful to me. Had I known it would be like this, I would NEVER had married him. it’s only been 6 months, and I DREAD what the future holds (he cannot talk about where he sees us in 5 years. we live in a dive of a rented row house…althought we’ve got 250K in savings, combined. about equal each.)
Do you suggest I divorce him ? I’m 36, with no family, have never felt loved, and feel like I’m excluded from the human family. The only reason I’m not leaving is that i think there “might” be a chance with him…I am a faithful catholic…and feel I’m being punsihed in some way,…what’s up? Is God punhishing me becuase my mom and dad were not married in the church - and it was her 2nd marriage? And she sent away her son from her first marriage? Who I was fobidden by my father to have any contact with? And who forbid me to attend my brother’s funeral? (He - my half brother- died from Chron’s complications about 10 years ago)…
He does not answer phone calls EVER. He will not speak to any of his family on the phone form more than a minute. I AM NOT KIDDING. Were I to die in a horrible accident, I would be alone - as I cannot depend on him as my emergency contact.
I have no family, and this behaviour is intensely painful to me. Had I known it would be like this, I would NEVER had married him. it’s only been 6 months, and I DREAD what the future holds (he cannot talk about where he sees us in 5 years. we live in a dive of a rented row house…althought we’ve got 250K in savings, combined. about equal each.)
Do you suggest I divorce him ? I’m 36, with no family, have never felt loved, and feel like I’m excluded from the human family. The only reason I’m not leaving is that i think there “might” be a chance with him…I am a faithful catholic…and feel I’m being punsihed in some way,…what’s up? Is God punhishing me becuase my mom and dad were not married in the church - and it was her 2nd marriage? And she sent away her son from her first marriage? Who I was fobidden by my father to have any contact with? And who forbid me to attend my brother’s funeral? (He - my half brother- died from Chron’s complications about 10 years ago)…
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Godfollower
Guest
God is not punishing you for what your parents did. This is an issue between you and your husband, and you do not deserve this.
We can’t suggest that you divorce him; that’s not our place. We can only give you laymen’s advice based on what we (think we) know.
Generally speaking, what happens after the marriage ceremony has nothing to do with any annulment, because the focus of an annulment is on whether the ceremony itself (that is, the Sacrament of Matrimony) was validly performed. And, obviously, what happens after the ceremony cannot change its validity or invalidity.
BUT: Things that happen after the ceremony can be evidence of a defect in the ceremony itself. The classic example is “Well, we’re back from the honeymoon. Did I mention I’m gay and never want to sleep with you again?” Such a comment is after-the-fact evidence that the speaker lacked the required intent at the time of the wedding to enter into a valid marriage bond – so it might help to prove that the Sacrament was not validly performed. In your case, perhaps his demand for condoms could indicate a preexisting lack of willingness to have children, which could be a defect in the intent of one of the ministers (the groom) in performing the Sacrament. That might invalidate the ceremony.
So, maybe. But we just aren’t qualified to give you a definitive answer.
I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. Please talk to a sensitive priest about this; it can help.
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chevalier
Guest
Go to your diocese’s website, get contact info of the tribunal if there is any and talk to them. That’s a complicated matter and to get good advice you need a real canon lawyer and you need to tell him all the facts. Obviously, even at that point, it’s still advice - this simply means whatever we tell you here is highly speculative and prone to much miscommunication.
So far, I can only tell you that from the fact of refusal to have intercourse without a condom points towards the possibility of exclusion of progeny (offspring), which is a defect of consent. This is a serious clue. As for the other things, I will take a moment to describe them below, but this is not substitute for real advice from a real canon lawyer (I’m not one).
Problems of psychological nature that make a normal marriage impossible may cause nullity if they are serious enough, but one can’t make such an assessment on not returning phone calls or not being very self-giving or generous. Persons incapable of contracting marriage on account of such problems are those who lack the sufficient use of reason, suffer from “grave lack of discretion of judgement” in matters of essential duties of marriage exchanged between the spouses and those who can’t assume those duties for reasons of a psychic nature (this is canon 1095 in plain words).
As for the discretion of judgement, note essential. It’s closer to not getting an idea of what a married life is about than it is to being a loner that doesn’t return calls. As for inability to assume the duties of marriage for reasons of a psychic nature, examples include people with sexual disorders, severely afflicted alcoholics, men who can’t sever the metaphorical umbilical cord and so on, generally those who are unable to deliver on the oath they are taking. Again, this doesn’t mean that everything is fine as long as the husband tolerates your presence. However, it takes something serious to make a null marriage on the account of his vision of married life or his personality problems. I believe it’s possible in your case, but it would be going too far to call it likely.
A different thing is error - error roughly corresponds to, “I would never have married him if I had known.” However, error as a cause of nullity is limited to such an error that concerns a quality which is, “directly and principally intended,” in the wording of Canon Law (can 1097 §2). If someone marries a person because of an admirably quality and later it turns out the person didn’t have it, that’s not a null marriage yet. It would have to be a specifically and strongly intended quality, for lack of better translation into intelligible English. It’s hard to give an example involving average people in typical situations. A retrospective judgement that if you had been better informed you wouldn’t have married that person is not enough. Implied requirements or expectations don’t sit well with, “directly and principally,” either. I can’t see such error in the facts you give.
As for civil divorce, it’s not a final seal of a failed marriage and cannot be used to gain the ability to call a marriage over and remain celibate for the remainder of one’s life. Separation is allowed to Catholics, calling a marriage over is not. Civil divorce may be necessary to achieve the legal (civil) effect of a canonical separation, but not to make an announcement that marriage failed and we’re quitting.
However, it’s not canon law that you need right now. Go talk to a priest. You need spiritual help first. Talk to him about your life and about your fears. He can offer you advise and counsel and assist with finding more of it, should you need it. When you get that taken care of, you can look at the validity of your marriage.
And God isn’t holding you guilty for anything your parents did before you were born. What is more, He knows about all your predicaments and all your fears, loves you with all of that, and certainly isn’t allowing you to suffer for no good reason. He cares more for you than the most perfect human husband or father or mother could. Trust Him.
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TigerKitty
Guest
Chevalier -
Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your advice and explanations.
The decan from the church finally got back to me, and we are meeting this week. I definitely realize I need some spritual counseling - ASAP.
Thank you also for your comforting words…
Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your advice and explanations.
The decan from the church finally got back to me, and we are meeting this week. I definitely realize I need some spritual counseling - ASAP.
Thank you also for your comforting words…
- TK
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1ke
Guest
A permanent intention against children and refusal to have non-contracepted sex could indeed be indications he had a defect in intent/consent.
God does not punish you with a bad marriage because of things your parents did or did not do.
Only you can decide whether you should stay with him or not. But, he sounds to me like he has **serious **psychological issues and may have hidden things from you that would have impacted your decision to marry him had you known it.
Go see your priest. ASAP.
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LaLucia
Guest
I recently applied for an annulment in Jan. 09. I did all of my research for the cannon laws that could apply to my annulment.
I wrote a 15 page report based on the questions asked in order to process my paperwork.
My priests at my church are not really interested in knowing anything about why I want an annulment and that could be because they don’t really know what it is like being married.
My priest just gave me the questions and told me to write a great report of my answers. I did great… I am thinking.
Our Deacon does know what it is like to be married because he is married. His wife also gets envolved when someone applies
for an annulment at our church. They help the person out together.
They have been sucessful with annulments of people who ask for their help.
Since I feel I have a clear cut case I didn’t ask for any help from our priests. I just had them give their church stamp of approval and the annulment papers were mailed to the Tribunal by my church…
Now I just wait for 6 months to hear from them.
Times have changed and there are new canon laws for nullity of the “Sacrament” of Marriage. It is the sacrament that is annulled.
By annuling the sacrament I will be free to recieve the “sacrament”
of marriage in the Catholic church in my future if I want to.
I prefer to just stay single.
I wrote a 15 page report based on the questions asked in order to process my paperwork.
My priests at my church are not really interested in knowing anything about why I want an annulment and that could be because they don’t really know what it is like being married.
My priest just gave me the questions and told me to write a great report of my answers. I did great… I am thinking.
Our Deacon does know what it is like to be married because he is married. His wife also gets envolved when someone applies
for an annulment at our church. They help the person out together.
They have been sucessful with annulments of people who ask for their help.
Since I feel I have a clear cut case I didn’t ask for any help from our priests. I just had them give their church stamp of approval and the annulment papers were mailed to the Tribunal by my church…
Now I just wait for 6 months to hear from them.
Times have changed and there are new canon laws for nullity of the “Sacrament” of Marriage. It is the sacrament that is annulled.
By annuling the sacrament I will be free to recieve the “sacrament”
of marriage in the Catholic church in my future if I want to.
I prefer to just stay single.
C
chevalier
Guest
The sacrament is received if a valid marriage is made. If the marriage is invalid, there is no sacrament. Between baptised Catholics, there can’t be a valid marriage without it being a sacrament, nor a sacramental marriage that wouldn’t be valid.
In early times, sometimes people would refer to nullity as divorce, so with that vocabulary, there would be allowed divorce on the grounds of e.g. consanguinity. This is also what some Eastern Churches have done. Thankfully, we have precise terminology now. It was already precise in the previous canon law code of 1917, although there have been some changes in the grounds, but not to the institution.
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Agripa
Guest
Interesting - I am in the same process now, though I found the Deacon assigned to me helpful but am never sure he really is my “advocat” in any real sense. (Like you know a lawyer is your advocat in a legal battle).
I will say “clear cut cases” are often seen as such by those seeking the annulment, though in the end its not always such.
For me, I filed for it, but have been making darn sure I have done everything by the book and still the grounds have changed and more info is often sought by the Tribunal - It matters nought to me for they can take two years, twenty or even decide after I take my “dirt nap”, I simply am seeking it because I think there are gounds to find the marriage invalid and want only for that to be recognized - as opposed to trying to get it just to get remarried which is not my intent!!
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LaLucia
Guest
Hello Agripa, I have honorable reasons for getting my annulment.
I applied for the annulment so my ex-spouse can return to the Catholic church and get back in God’s grace if he wishes. He re-married in a court many years ago. My adult son was the one who asked me to file for the annulment so my ex-spouse can return to the church. since I am very good at writing and stating my case like a lawyer I decided to file.
My ex-spouse asked not to be contacted by the Tribunal. I didn’t say anything bad about him. I put it all on me because it was my fault. I also have two sisters who are great witnesses who can testify on my behalf.
They will blame our parents and me but not say a bad word about my ex-spouse. That is my stratagy because it is the truth.
I submitted extra documents stating reasons why I should never have gotten married… like a medical report on myself from my doctor and a letter from my psychological therapist. I am still under their care.
I also submitted a photo of myself and my two adult sons.
People like to look at photos to see what you look like.
I also submitted my birth certificate eventhough they didn’t ask for it. It proves who I am and where I was born.
You need to be your own advocate and seek as much advise as possible. Your Deacon is probably busy with people who have other problems. I am sure he will be there to advise you when the time comes when you need his help.
I got lucky and was able to contact a Priest who has given lectures on how to get your marriage annulled. He works for the Tribunal and I received a phone call from his office stating that he will look into my case.
I feel that God is my advocate because God knows I am doing this annulment for my ex-spouse so the door is open for him to return to the Catholic church.
My priest told me to be extremely patience and not to call the Tribunal to ask any questions because they wouldn’t respond.
It was really interesting that on the day that I gave my priest the annulment papers I received a call from the Tribunal office stating that they were looking foreward to receiving my documents.
It gave me hope that God is with me. I truly believe that.
I applied for the annulment so my ex-spouse can return to the Catholic church and get back in God’s grace if he wishes. He re-married in a court many years ago. My adult son was the one who asked me to file for the annulment so my ex-spouse can return to the church. since I am very good at writing and stating my case like a lawyer I decided to file.
My ex-spouse asked not to be contacted by the Tribunal. I didn’t say anything bad about him. I put it all on me because it was my fault. I also have two sisters who are great witnesses who can testify on my behalf.
They will blame our parents and me but not say a bad word about my ex-spouse. That is my stratagy because it is the truth.
I submitted extra documents stating reasons why I should never have gotten married… like a medical report on myself from my doctor and a letter from my psychological therapist. I am still under their care.
I also submitted a photo of myself and my two adult sons.
People like to look at photos to see what you look like.
I also submitted my birth certificate eventhough they didn’t ask for it. It proves who I am and where I was born.
You need to be your own advocate and seek as much advise as possible. Your Deacon is probably busy with people who have other problems. I am sure he will be there to advise you when the time comes when you need his help.
I got lucky and was able to contact a Priest who has given lectures on how to get your marriage annulled. He works for the Tribunal and I received a phone call from his office stating that he will look into my case.
I feel that God is my advocate because God knows I am doing this annulment for my ex-spouse so the door is open for him to return to the Catholic church.
My priest told me to be extremely patience and not to call the Tribunal to ask any questions because they wouldn’t respond.
It was really interesting that on the day that I gave my priest the annulment papers I received a call from the Tribunal office stating that they were looking foreward to receiving my documents.
It gave me hope that God is with me. I truly believe that.
J
joandarc2008
Guest
Cabalissa-
If you would not mind me asking how did you two do on your FOCUS test?
God Bless,
If you would not mind me asking how did you two do on your FOCUS test?
God Bless,
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Agripa
Guest
Hopefully Fortune will smile upon you in this endevor - I too say nothing ill of my ex - she is really a good person and like many in her station in life, wanted only to be married (and she still deserves that) - I on the other hand knew long ago, even before that fateful walk down the isle that marriage was not meant for me. Coming to grips with that has been a journey in itself!!
Interesting about the picture - had not thought of that - though I certainly did write extensively - nearly thrity two typed pages!
P
Phemie
Guest
Depending on the diocese of which they are a part, many don’t take a FOCUS test. I’d never heard of this until a former pastor started using it. That lasted for 2 years and then none his successors wanted to use it.
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Agripa
Guest
My ex and I took the FOCUS test, and the two tests came back so divergent, the priest refused to marry us! We should have listened. The tests, like any psych test, is really a snap shot of a person, not definitive, but a good tool to catch red flags.
J
joandarc2008
Guest
I think it is a shame. I know when my husband and I did our Pre-CANA it brought up many things that we had not realized and gave us an opportunity to talk about them with a deacon who was in a long, happy marriage. I believe that these types of situations could be prevented if a tool like the FOCUS was used prior to the vows in order to prevent the kind of heartache the OP is sharing with us. My prayers are with you. My prayers are also with your husband that he my find the compassion to become the man he needs to be to honor his vows to you in all ways.
God bless,
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