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fakename
Guest
Are ideas substances, or are ideas not separate substances but rather are consubstantial w’/the mind?
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tonyrey
Guest
It depends on your definition of substance. Ideas are certainly not illusions. They are certainly real and no less real than material objects (which goes to show that reality is more complex than meets the eye). Ideas are produced by the mind and wouldn’t exist without the mind yet they are communicated from one mind to another. In fact the more I think about ideas the more mysterious they become! I need to sleep on it…
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Katholish
Guest
Ideas are most certainly not substances, but are accidental forms within the mind (so they share in a way with the substance of man, and hence “consubstantial” is not altogether inaccurate). Aristotle points out that this is one of the amazing things about the human soul, that it is in potency to become all things (i.e. it takes on the “forms” of the things it knows).
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Gregory_I
Guest
SO the soul can look like what it’s thinking about?
THen Demons CAN read minds. Right?
THen Demons CAN read minds.
Right?
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Katholish
Guest
? The soul doesn’t “look” like anything. It is immaterial and hence invisible.SO the soul can look like what it’s thinking about?
THen Demons CAN read minds.
Angels (and thus demons) are thought to communicate through a voluntary exchange of ideas. It is speculated that they can read human thoughts if a man wills them to be able to do so, but cannot read thoughts which man does not want them to. However, it is accepted that they can communicate with thus regardless of any act of the will on our part, though it is unclear to me if this it through manipulation of phantasms (hence something physical in our bodies) or through actual implantation of immaterial ideas. I would think it the former, but the latter being possible if we participated voluntarily. Angelic communication is really a speculative field, for which St. Thomas is the best authority.
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JDaniel
Guest
FN:
I should think that ideas are the orderly juxtaposition of a select number of recorded exigencies from our memories. Ideas come together by following rules, like logic. They are not ‘substances’, per se, but certainly consist of matter’s alter ego, energy, IMO.
Anyway, that’s my quick surmise.
God bless,
jd
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inocente
Guest
Ideas are sequences of neurons firing.
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yppop
Guest
FN
The human mind has many functions, the one associated with ideas is called thought. Here’s a little exercise that is helpful to understanding the nature of ideas. Try thinking without using symbols (most prevalently words, but numbers or other symbols that have attached meaning will do). I can’t think without mentally manipulating words. What this means to me is that all ideas (regarding their function as the building blocks of thought) require the manipulation of words or other meaningful symbols. But symbols are only one part of an idea, there are also attached meanings. Therefore to me an idea is a set of symbols residing in the neuronal circuits of the brain plus their associated meanings that reside in the spiritual substance that is manifested as consciousness, I refer to it as nous, the substance of the noosphere.
Ideas are generated from three modalities of insight: (1) tangential insight that originates externally through the senses while engaged in the activity of wonder, curiosity, study, etc.; (2) internal insight that originates in the mind while engaged in learning, analysis, synthesis, etc.; and (3) radial insight that originates in Mind of God while we are engaged in contemplation, revelation, invention, creativity, etc.
All three modalities require the deliberate exercise of the will.
Yppop
The human mind has many functions, the one associated with ideas is called thought. Here’s a little exercise that is helpful to understanding the nature of ideas. Try thinking without using symbols (most prevalently words, but numbers or other symbols that have attached meaning will do). I can’t think without mentally manipulating words. What this means to me is that all ideas (regarding their function as the building blocks of thought) require the manipulation of words or other meaningful symbols. But symbols are only one part of an idea, there are also attached meanings. Therefore to me an idea is a set of symbols residing in the neuronal circuits of the brain plus their associated meanings that reside in the spiritual substance that is manifested as consciousness, I refer to it as nous, the substance of the noosphere.
Ideas are generated from three modalities of insight: (1) tangential insight that originates externally through the senses while engaged in the activity of wonder, curiosity, study, etc.; (2) internal insight that originates in the mind while engaged in learning, analysis, synthesis, etc.; and (3) radial insight that originates in Mind of God while we are engaged in contemplation, revelation, invention, creativity, etc.
All three modalities require the deliberate exercise of the will.
Yppop
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
I don’t think they are quite “things,” though, Tony.It depends on your definition of substance. Ideas are certainly not illusions. They are certainly real and no less real than material objects (which goes to show that reality is more complex than meets the eye). Ideas are produced by the mind and wouldn’t exist without the mind yet they are communicated from one mind to another. In fact the more I think about ideas the more mysterious they become! I need to sleep on it…
While reading your post, I remembered the old New Agey saying “I believe that thoughts are things…”
Of course, thoughts and ideas are two different “things,” but I was wondering if, after “sleeping on it,” you still think that ideas are “things.”
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MartinThinking
Guest
I’m confused with above, its commented"I can’t think without mentally manipulating words"
If you have an experience…try this one…Your leaving a friends house. The friend is behaving out of character relative to your expectations. Showing signs of dismay or the like to you. Upon leaving you turn and look at the expression of his face without his expectation in order to capture a telling glance of his true inner thoughts towards you.
Later …perhaps in the evening you replay the captured 3-4 second glance which you obtained.
Now , the dynamics of the expression will be evaluated over time in your mind throughout this exploratory exercise. You will consider without words the countenance on his face, body movement …replay …replay. until your satisfied the short investigation has been satisfied.
Emotions and discernment will create real ideas in your mind without words or symbols in any way what so ever. There are many examples of this process in every day life. Very “defined” ideas are thus formed without words or symbols …
Lets have a look at the rest of quoted post.
Deliberate exercise of the will as u comment would “suggest”… a deliberate intention is required to produce an idea generated by modalities…
There are so many instances through involuntary survival behavior that act as antenna’s without deliberate intention ,to directly form idea’s in ones environmental stability its mind boggling.
try this…I feel unsafe(without words and look about and behind)…and don’t seem to perceive a direct cause. An idea of threat has entered the picture without any deliberate intention as described re thought process and ideas…
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tonyrey
Guest
We associate “things” with material objects but when we say “every**thing **created by God” we include immaterial realities like minds and ideas. Our inability to understand what the mind is and how it works means that our conclusions about ideas must be largely speculative. Like memes and numbers they seem to have an independent existence. Is “two” an idea? I think it is. Is it a fiction? Certainly not! It refers to a fact about material objects which “existed” before humanity appeared. Even though no one knew many animals had two eyes it made a difference to their view of the world…
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