What are indulgences for?

[Tis_Bearself]

Most of us will end up in purgatory regardless if we receive indulgences or not.

St. Therese actually warned against this kind of thinking.
She said the soul gets what it expects from God. If you go around thinking, “I’ll probably end up in purgatory” or “It’s impossible for me to avoid purgatory” then yes, you will end up there.

I prefer to throw myself on God’s mercy and trust him to help me avoid Purgatory.

There is also a very helpful old “How-To” guide by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan called “How To Avoid Purgatory”, available online for free from EWTN. Of course it is not a guarantee, but if someone assiduously did the good things in the book, I am sure God would take that into account.

 

[Nihilo]

'Couple things.

“Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,” is asking Our Father for indulgence, in exchange for granting indulgence to others.

There is no reason to ask forgiveness for the eternal penalties for our sins, since that is what the Lord died for (we cannot add to it), and the eternal penalties were forgiven when we came to faith in Him and were baptized, and, it makes no sense for us to try to forgive the eternal penalties of those who trespass against us either, so this petition in the Our Father is for forgiveness of temporal penalties, which is what an indulgence is.

And the other thing is that purgatory has already begun for us, being as how it is a purifying fire that burns because we set the fire with our sins. The penalties for sin are contained in sin itself, and we are owed those penalties, and the only thing that can step in the way of them is indulgence.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Your post needs a little bit of clarification.

An indulgence is separate from forgiveness of sins. See the “broken window” example above.

God forgives our sins through the Sacrament of Reconciliation and also, for venial sins, through the sacramental methods that absolve venial sins (such as receiving Holy Eucharist). We don’t need an indulgence, either for ourselves or for someone else, to obtain forgiveness of our sins.

An indulgence is rather remisision of temporal punishment for an already-forgiven sin. See the “broken window” example above.
It is basically to repair the harm done by an already-forgiven sin, so we don’t have to make such reparations and purify ourselves in purgatory (or someone else doesn’t have to, if we give them the indulgence).

 

[OddBird]

I’m learning a lot from this thread, thank you !

 

[Usige]

St. Therese actually warned against this kind of thinking.
She said the soul gets what it expects from God. If you go around thinking, “I’ll probably end up in purgatory” or “It’s impossible for me to avoid purgatory” then yes, you will end up there.

I prefer to throw myself on God’s mercy and trust him to help me avoid Purgatory.

I would agree that none of us should aim for purgatory, but we should not see purgatory as something to be feared or as a consolation prize. Many of us will aim for heaven, but even if we fall short of the mark it is not something that I would tsk at to have time in purgatory to have any lingering attachment burned away.

The current thought that everyone who tries will end up going straight to heaven is also dangerous as it has lead to many who don’t pray for the souls in purgatory. If our main concern in this life is only for our own salvation it’s a little like someone that climbs a wall and then says now I’ll help others who can’t get over the wall versus giving those there already a boost first and then entering after I know no one else is left struggling below. Personally I would prefer to help those that went before and let God weigh if my prays and works in the name of others is worthy of remission of my own failings.

 

[Nihilo]

Thank you. It does paint a very full picture, when we consider all the different ways in which God is working actively to forgive us, culminating in what He did on His cross. There aren’t any ‘gaps’ in His mercy. I don’t recognize any difference between “remission” and “forgiveness” though? I see them used interchangeably in Scripture, e.g.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The current thought that everyone who tries will end up going straight to heaven is also dangerous as it has lead to many who don’t pray for the souls in purgatory.

I don’t see it leading there for any good Catholics. Your statement may be correct for members of non-Catholic Christian faiths who do not believe in Purgatory, assume that a person is either saved or not saved when they die, and hence don’t pray for any of their dead, some of whom may well be in Purgatory. I have never met a Catholic who didn’t pray for the souls of their beloved dead, “just in case” or with the understanding that God is outside time and might apply the prayers at the moment of the person’s death in order to get them into Heaven. I believe both of my parents are in Heaven as of now but I don’t stop praying for them because I figure God may need to backdate those prayers to the time of my parents’ death, even during their lives, in order to help them to be in Heaven today.

St. Therese’s views on this were heavily criticized including by her fellow nuns, some of whom were aghast that she was teaching the novices they could avoid Purgatory. Yet, St. Therese is a saint and a Doctor of the Church today, while those who criticized her are not.

 

[Nihilo]

…I would agree that none of us should aim for purgatory, but we should not see purgatory as something to be feared or as a consolation prize…

I’m looking forward to it. I’ll be refined into the purest gold in every way, right down to the finest detail, all ready for heaven.

 

[newconvertcatholic]

Thank you so much for all your replies.
I’ve learnt so much thanks to this thread.
Who said internet forums aren’t useful for salvation?

I’ll offer all my sufferings and prayers up for holy souls in Purgatory and try to gain as my indulgences for them.

As for myself, I surely want to be saint and go straight to heaven. I might not get there but surely no harm in trying.

Obviosuly if I count on my own works, I will get nowhere. But if I count on Jesus, like St. Therese did, I’ll surely get to heaven. We all will. (and God-willing without Purgatory)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Obviosuly if I count on my own works, I will get nowhere. But if I count on Jesus, like St. Therese did, I’ll surely get to heaven.

That’s THE most important thing. We do not accomplish ANYTHING by our own power. God does it all, we are just his instruments in the world. I try to remind myself of this daily. I think it is an important point that many people today, including Catholics, forget, so if you (and I) can just remember this, we will have taken a big step forward.

 

[Shelion]

We do not accomplish ANYTHING by our own power. God does it all, we are just his instruments in the world. I try to remind myself of this daily. I think it is an important point that many people today, including Catholics, forget, so if you (and I) can just remember this, we will have taken a big step forward.

I noticed in my case that whenever I forget that for some reason, God likes to remind me how I can’t. The last 6 months of my life have been a huge lesson of that sort. I was powerless, but that taught me to rely only on Him through that experience.

 

[Shelion]

I’ll offer all my sufferings and prayers up for holy souls in Purgatory and try to gain as my indulgences for them.

As for myself, I surely want to be saint and go straight to heaven. I might not get there but surely no harm in trying.

Obviosuly if I count on my own works, I will get nowhere. But if I count on Jesus, like St. Therese did, I’ll surely get to heaven. We all will. (and God-willing without Purgatory)

We are all called to be saints; Jesus said - be perfect as my Father is perfect. Mother Angelica talked about it a lot too - I only write that, because you wrote you were audacious to think so. When I was a new convert I had the same thought exactly. I thought I was being … ambitious. Somebody I care about used to think it’s the thing for consecrated people only… I hope he thinks different now, I haven’t asked recently, but I had that idea at the start too.

Ask God to teach you how to love Him and to increase that love - He does answer that prayer promptly…
As for offering all your sufferings - it’s a great idea. I do that in the morning for the day ahead, not to miss anything, but as I am consecrated (I’m not sure that’s correct word here) to the Blessed Virgin (saint Louis de Montfort), I always ask the Mother of God to choose intentions(in the morning prayer that is), and when I choose it sometimes (like during the day sth comes up) it’s for the sinners/conversions (in general or particular). But I give away all the indulgences (partial or plenary) I earn during the day to the souls in purgatory, and that I say as soon as I wake up.
And welcome home!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I am going through similar. I have so many practical challenges to face that I have felt overwhelmed many a time. I keep reminding myself, “I can do all things through God who strengthens me” and putting all of my reliance and faith and trust in God, along with Mary and Joseph and a few other saints to help.

I have a friend who is going through a divorce and other things of her own and she is very much into self-empowerment and I can tell she doesn’t quite understand why I keep rejecting that mindset. I felt pretty empowered in my past life but that would not fix the issues I have now. At some point it is just too much for us to do alone and God does that so we will understand we need to turn to Him.

 

[Shelion]

I keep reminding myself, “I can do all things through God who strengthens me” and putting all of my reliance and faith and trust in God, along with Mary and Joseph and a few other saints to help.

It’s very much like in my case - of course the other saints may vary. I use the short - how do you call them? --acts - like “I trust You Jesus” or “Jesus have mercy on me” etc but in the more difficult moments I just pray the short prayer like a mantra “Make haste, O God, to deliver me! O LORD, make haste to help me!” -I may have chosen the wrong translation though. That helps me remember who is in charge.

 

[Michael16]

I was into the self help thing as well and it flat out didn’t work. Trying to rely on myself just exhausts me spiritually, feeds pride and pointless as well; since I’ve noticed that what God does for me is waaaaaay more effective and helpful than anything I could’ve done for myself.

The thing that helps me keep going is a combination of trusting God, relying on Him and prayer; invoking Our Lady and the saints.

 

[Toledo]

What are indulgences for? Spirituality

The abuses the Church used with indulgences tells me that this was never what Jesus intended. Pope Urban II, gave a plenary indulgence to those who volunteered for the 1st Crusade to go to the Holy Land and kill Muslim Men. Really ? Then of course, Martin Luther witnessed the abuse of indulgences as Bishops were seeking to fill their coffers by offering indulgences for payment and of course acts of penance Jim

The Crusades in the Middle East were primarily to protect pilgrims and make the way safe for those going to Jerusalem vicinity to see and worship at the places of our Lord’s earthly life. The 900’s and 1000’s were especially dangerous for Christian pilgrims and many thousands were martyred and killed by Muslims on the way to Jerusalem.

If battle had to be done, these holy men (and women) had to be able to defend themselves. Primarily the Crusades were a noble effort to protect fellow Christians and their pathway.

Yes, some Crusaders did not behave honorably, with unnecessary violence for material gain, but the vast majority wanted to honor our Lord. They should be honored in our prayers. I will pray my next rosary for the unknown martyrs and defenders who died for our Lord on Crusade. There are many pieces of literature (Latin into French) which show the fervor of these Crusaders and their holy intentions.

There is no excuse for any who sold indulgences for monetary profit, as you have mentioned.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

. I will pray my next rosary for the unknown martyrs and defenders who died for our Lord on Crusade.

This is a great idea. I will do the same.

 

[John10]

I realize that it’s primarily to pass more quickly through purgatory after my death.

However I think we underestimate how difficult / painful this purification will be. It is way better to earn indulgences and pay off our debts while we are still on Earth.

The saints tell us of purgatory:

Here is what the great Doctors of the Church tell us of Purgatory:

So grievous is their suffering that one minute in this awful fire seems like a century.

St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians, says that the fire of Purgatory is equal in intensity to the fire of Hell, and that the slightest
contact with it is more dreadful than all the possible sufferings of this Earth!

St. Augustine, the greatest of the Holy Doctors, teaches that to be purified of their faults previous to being admitted to Heaven, souls after death are subjected to a fire more penetrating, more dreadful than anything we can see, or feel, or conceive in this life

"Though this fire is destined to cleanse and purify the soul, " adds the Holy Doctor, "still it is more acute than anything we could possibly endure on Earth. "

One of the greatest charity acts we can do is offering a full indulgence for a soul in purgatory, we are therefore giving that soul the greatest good possible and no one is in more need that they are.

God Bless

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You need to update your facts about the Crusades

Read “The First Crusade,” by Thomas Asbridge

Pope Urban II in order to get volunteers, traveled around Europe promising those who went to the Holy Land on the Crusade, that they would receive and plenary indulgence allowing them to bypass purgatory. However, his main goal was to try and get the Byzantines back with Rome.

This is not the authority Jesus gave the successors to Peter. To suggest it is a tap dance around the reality of bad Popes who did bad things.

Jim

 

[Toledo]

What are indulgences for? Spirituality

You need to update your facts about the Crusades Read “The First Crusade,” by Thomas Asbridge Pope Urban II in order to get volunteers, traveled around Europe promising those who went to the Holy Land on the Crusade, that they would receive and plenary indulgence allowing them to bypass purgatory. However, his main goal was to try and get the Byzantines back with Rome. This is not the authority Jesus gave the successors to Peter. To suggest it is a tap dance around the reality of bad Popes wh…

I disagree, as do Moczar, Weidenkopf and Crawford in the current works on the Crusades.

Of course Pope Urban II had to drum up support, a Crusade was something that perhaps 20 men in all of Europe could have begun, much less advanced to actually being carried out.

Sure reunification would have been icing on the top, but Blessed Urban II’s primary goal was his flock going to the Middle East. I don’t agree that he was a bad (do you mean evil or ineffective?) Pope. He took a strong stand against simony for example, hardly the mark of an unholy man.