What are proper spousal roles around the household?

[EasterJoy]

You’re right, we’re not very grateful. It’s a big problem that me and my wife and our kids all have. No idea how to fix it.

The reason that the FlyLady and writers such as the Side-Tracked Home Executives are recommended so often is that they were in the same fix and learned to be organized and happy. They lived in utter chaos. They changed. It didn’t happen overnight, but each little accomplishment gave them a lift. When they had made their home life over, the change was very liberating!

The second pair, who are sisters, invented a card system to prompt them to do those routine things that the “born organized” just do as a matter of course. Some people love this; others find it too cumbersome. The FlyLady gradually adds new good habits and has a check-off list for remembering what to do and when to do it.

Their main revelation is this: “Naturally” organized people have routines by which they get their recurrent chores done. They have habits for identifying goals and reaching them. It doesn’t matter which routine is used. Different people find different routines work for them. What matters is that there is a routine, that habits of getting these things done are formed. “Naturally” organized people, for instance, clean as they go when they’re cooking. They get up and do the dishes when they’re done eating, or they sit for X amount of time and by some prompt get up and do the dishes, or they have a system where someone cooks, putting things away as they go, and someone else cleans up the remainder afterwards.

What will not work is thinking of what needs to be done every time something needs to be done and using willpower alone to get there. There need to be routines that eliminate decision-making, there need to be set-ups that make getting things done more efficient and easily-remembered, there needs to be a positive desire to have an efficiently-run home and a belief that it can be done. These are skills that can be learned, though, and not capacities that have to be gained in childhood.

 

[PhiloMed]

She spends a lot of that time cleaning, but a lot of that time sitting around on the couch watching cooking shows and eating whatever she can find in the cabinets and fridge. But then she expects me at the end of my workday to help out with cleaning, even though she sat around doing nothing for a lot of that time. We recently had an argument about this, because I don’t think it’s quite fair that she ask me to do my job and hers. But the argument is over because I apologized and said I was wrong, and that I would help out cleaning, even though I lied about this, because I just wanted her to stop being mean spirited and malicious towards me out of her anger at me. Am I being unreasonable to think that I shouldn’t have to clean at the end of the day just because she didn’t? Sometimes I have said “I’ll go do the dishes” and she says “no, no, you shouldn’t have to just because I didn’t” but that’s only when she would rather me spend the evening watching TV with her or something instead of cleaning. On other days, she almost demands that I help out (but instead of demanding, she just starts cleaning and gets angry at me for not cleaning instead, and I only find out about it afterwards when she starts yelling at me).

This is all sounding very childish. You just said here that your wife spends x amount of time cleaning, but in another thread you said the house is chaos. Looked for suggestions on how to improve your situation, and then proclaimed the discussion over when you didn’t like the suggestion to enroll your children in school to get away from the clearly dysfunctional situation in your house.

Now you’re arguing with your wife over who has to do chores and looking for some sort of Catholic loophole that says wives need to do the household chores.

Doesn’t exist. The Church doesn’t outline who takes out the trash, who changes the oil on the car, who folds the laundry etc. These are things for the couple to work out among themselves based on what works best for their family.

I sense the issues in your family run much deeper than just household chores, though.

I also bolded the above part because it sounds like your wife is trying to get you to just spend some time with her. This is not a bad thing.

There’s this lovely poem by Ruth Hulbert-Hamilton that I think reminds us to keep life in perspective:

Mother, O Mother, come shake out your cloth,
Empty the dustpan, poison the moth,
Hang out the washing, make up the bed,
Sew on a button and butter the bread.

Where is the mother whose house is so shocking?
She’s up in the nursery, blissfully rocking.

Oh, I’ve grown as shiftless as Little Boy Blue,
Lullabye, rockabye, lullabye loo.
Dishes are waiting and bills are past due
Pat-a-cake, darling, and peek, peekaboo

The shopping’s not done and there’s nothing for stew
And out in the yard there’s a hullabaloo
But I’m playing Kanga and this is my Roo
Look! Aren’t his eyes the most wonderful hue?
Lullabye, rockaby lullabye loo.

The cleaning and scrubbing can wait till tomorrow
But children grow up as I’ve learned to my sorrow.
So quiet down cobwebs; Dust go to sleep!
I’m rocking my baby and babies don’t keep.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You’re right, we’re not very grateful. It’s a big problem that me and my wife and our kids all have. No idea how to fix it.

Not easy. But try either keeping a gratitude journal or start gratitude prayers.

Start with three simple things each day. Like a roof over your heads, good health, someone who loves you. You get the drift. Build from there.

In fact I am inspired to return to that practice. Good luck.

 

[EasterJoy]

You’re right. We’re both selfish. I have ADHD or something which makes me insanely productive with computer programming for weeks at a time, and I’ve used it to my advantage building software for myself that increases my productive at work. When the inspiration strikes, I go for it selfishly, putting my wife and kids out of my mind. That’s selfish, but I really really don’t want to give it up, because it gives me an amazingly wonderful feeling to be so incredibly productive and to create things that I actually use. But I know I should give it up. I just really don’t want to and wish I could find some other way out. Kind of like Jesus in the Garden, when he said “Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me”, but unlike Jesus, I have not been saying “yet not what I will, but what thou wilt”. Because I know what happened to Jesus: he didn’t get what he was asking for; the same thing will happen to me. The moment I give in to God’s will, I’ll never have the opportunity again to be insanely productive creating software that makes me even more productive at work. And that really good feeling will go away permanently.

Does she have ADHD, too? I ask because it is usually the spouse of the person with ADHD who complains about things not getting done…that is, unless two people with distraction and focus problems marry each other!

Is she easily distracted from a task? Lots of plans, not a lot of follow-through? Even if her problem is bad habits and not biology, if that is the case, your whole family might benefit greatly from a structure for getting tasks done. She can choose it, it doesn’t matter which structure, you can have Structure A for Dad is Creating and Structure B from Dad is Back or whatever, but if you as a couple are easily side-tracked off of task, trying out structures until you find one that helps you to get things done may be very helpful.

What is most important is that the two of you find a way to* set yourself up to succeed*. The goals have to be attainable, the progress measurable, and the prompts to stay on task firm without being onerous. These are the sorts of things that have allowed people in your position (i.e., chaos that they hate) to have an organized home life. Beating yourself up about what a mess you’re in will just be discouraging. Realizing that things can change and that people who do change are happy to have changed, OTOH, can be the encouragement needed to get things going.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

My husband and I have a very unique division of labor.

He does everything. I fill in when I can.

Sad, but true. My husband works full time. I work 10 hours a week. My husband, at various times has: grocery shopped, washed clothes, cleaned the house, mowed the law and cooked the meals. Sometimes he has spent his Saturday and Sunday doing all of it.

Just a few minutes ago, he reminded me that he could wash the clothes I need for the next couple of days, when he gets home from work. And he reminded me to take it easy because I have a busy few days coming up. (Jury duty.)

You see, OP, I have a illness that can make me tired. I have good days and bad days. When I have bad days, I don’t do anything. When I have good days, my husband wants me to save some of them just to have fun. Why use up a good day cleaning, when I can save some of it for an after dinner walk?

We need a Like button.

 

[BettyBoop416]

My role in my home is to provide the best life possible for myself and my husband. His role is the same. Some days, weeks, and even months this means that one of us has to take on more cooking, cleaning, or errands because the other one has a busy time at work, or a sick parent to care for, or is sick themselves.

When people start arguing about chores or become overly concerned with “fair”, it’s a sign that one or both partners has stopped doing the best they can.

By far the best response in the whole thread so far…and it came from an atheist.

 

[Joe_5859]

By far the best response in the whole thread so far…and it came from an atheist.

BlueEyedLady generally has her head on pretty straight. If not for that pesky atheism thing, she’d make a great Catholic.

 

[Cricket2]

Time for some common sense here. If she is home all day she should be doing the vast majority of the cleaning in the house. I think the only exception would be you doing your laundry. At the same time, both of you could be doing yard work if you have a yard, and you could keep up the garage on weekends if you have a garage. On weekends you both clean house.

Maybe I am old fashioned, but I am old enough to be just that. My mom was a stay at home mom and my father never had to clean any part of the house. He took care of the yard, trimming and painting for no other reason than he was stronger than her and he like the chores. The garage became his and my brother’s domain as they where the ones that worked on the cars.

When mom got sick and could not do all the house work, my dad took over. He did the laundry, the cooking, the cleaning. Now that he is older he can do little else but vacuum and laundry. Even my brother is to ill to keep up with the yard.

Here is a general rule for all: IF you make the mess you clean it. If you take a shower clean the tub and bathroom afterwards…every time. Do your own laundry. And if you cook you clean. If the other one cooks they clean. It takes a team effort to keep a house up. Divide your tasks up and get to cleaning.

 

[Demetra2]

My role in my home is to provide the best life possible for myself and my husband. His role is the same. Some days, weeks, and even months this means that one of us has to take on more cooking, cleaning, or errands because the other one has a busy time at work, or a sick parent to care for, or is sick themselves.

When people start arguing about chores or become overly concerned with “fair”, it’s a sign that one or both partners has stopped doing the best they can.

Good point!

Every family is going to have different needs but should be working in love for the common good of the family. Often times this means doing work/chores that we don’t enjoy but are necessary to keep the household running smoothly. It sounds to me like the OP"s wife just doesn’t like to clean? I don’t think that there are any hard and fast “Catholic rules” about household chores. Perhaps you need some motivation and counseling from a neutral person.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

Here is the deal. I think that your wife really needs to have a job and a skill. Seriously, you guys are hippies and not involved in the locavore/ organic farming movement. Perhaps spending a day in the garden growing your own food would be beneficial. Your kids could help too as part of homeschooling. If this isn’t her thing, there are lots of community college type courses that deal with certain skills. She could help with that and bring in a little more income. In return you could help with the chores. I think that even in a traditional relationship the guy should know how to vacuum and the women should know how to make money.

 

[Xantippe]

Here is the deal. I think that your wife really needs to have a job and a skill. Seriously, you guys are hippies and not involved in the locavore/ organic farming movement. Perhaps spending a day in the garden growing your own food would be beneficial. Your kids could help too as part of homeschooling. If this isn’t her thing, there are lots of community college type courses that deal with certain skills. She could help with that and bring in a little more income. In return you could help with the chores. I think that even in a traditional relationship the guy should know how to vacuum and the women should know how to make money.

She’s supposed to homeschool and work a paying job, too? Really? Especially when her husband has a highly-skilled job with an irregular schedule where he’s often struck by inspiration and has to go off and work on his idea as long as his inspiration lasts? That does not sound like a recipe for an effective two-income couple.

He can probably knock out enough work to get them a housecleaner once a month with just a few hours of effort, if he’s that good. (My husband does a bit of hobby programming, but on a much more modest level.)

We don’t even know how many kids this couple has or what age they are. For all we know, the OP has forgotten to mention that they have a 2-month-old baby or two toddlers or that they’ve got two disabled kids or that the wife is pregnant or some other huge complicating factor.

I like the idea of getting this family out of the house a lot more, but not the idea of loading more stuff on their shoulders. It sounds like they find their current responsibilities overwhelming.

 

[Xantippe]

I have another theory to float: maybe what’s going on is that the OP’s wife misses him (and in general adult companionship), so she comes up with reasons for him to do stuff with her (watch TV or clean or whatever). So it’s not necessarily about the TV or the cleaning–she may just want to spend more time with him and these things are just excuses. With his irregular schedule and demanding work, it may be rather difficult for her to get his attention for any length of time.

 

[AussieTrish]

Seriously, you guys are hippies and not involved in the locavore/ organic farming movement. Perhaps spending a day in the garden growing your own food would be beneficial. .

A small consideration.

The OP and his wife aren’t hippies nor are they living a hippy lifestyle.
Many townsfolk choose to home-school their children.

The OP merely commented that the their parents were hippies.

 

[smallcat]

From reading some of your other posts, I fear that you may be suffering from clinical depression, which can make any family problems seem overwhelming. Please, please find help from a therapist or psychiatrist. You can ask your priest for recommendations for good Catholic ones or check out www.catholictherapists.com. If there’s no one near you, many will do phone or skype counseling as well.

Please, it is a sign of strength to ask for help, and your getting help will help your family.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

A small consideration.

The OP and his wife aren’t hippies nor are they living a hippy lifestyle.
Many townsfolk choose to home-school their children.[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

The OP merely commented that the their parents were hippies.

Actually…said they grew up AS hippies…

 

[Luvz2travel]

You’re right. We’re both selfish. I have ADHD or something which makes me insanely productive with computer programming for weeks at a time, and I’ve used it to my advantage building software for myself that increases my productive at work. When the inspiration strikes, I go for it selfishly, putting my wife and kids out of my mind. That’s selfish, but I really really don’t want to give it up, because it gives me an amazingly wonderful feeling to be so incredibly productive and to create things that I actually use. But I know I should give it up. I just really don’t want to and wish I could find some other way out. Kind of like Jesus in the Garden, when he said “Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me”, but unlike Jesus, I have not been saying “yet not what I will, but what thou wilt”. Because I know what happened to Jesus: he didn’t get what he was asking for; the same thing will happen to me. The moment I give in to God’s will, I’ll never have the opportunity again to be insanely productive creating software that makes me even more productive at work. And that really good feeling will go away permanently.

It’ all became clear when you said you had ADHD. I have it as well. If you both have it and are trying to deal with running a household with other people then I see a big problem for you there. I recommend setting up a schedule. You don’t have to be militant about it but sit together and draw up goals and lists of what you want to accomplish and then create a schedule and follow it as best as you can. That’s what I had to do. People with ADHD will often do several things at a time because we have a hard time focusing on just one thing so we do a little here a little there in some cases this works and stuff gets done in some cases it doesn’t work out so well especially if other people are in the household waiting on a time frame of quick conclusion. I have a day that I do my laundry, a day I work on my garden, certain days I vacum and so on. I work two jobs and have to follow a schedule or else nothing will get don’t. Also switch chores once on awhile maybe to give eachother a break. Maybe you wife could take out the trash and you could do the dishes or care for the kids on an evening. Give an take is part of living with others and isn’t just a marriage related issue.