What are Protestant concerns with the sacrament of confession?

[Steadfast]

For Lutherans the greatest objection to the way Catholics practice Holy Absolution is that they tie it to satisfaction, requiring some work on the part of the penitent beyond what Christ has already done on his behalf.

Other than that, we agree that the Church has the privilege of pronouncing forgiveness of sins to repentant believers and that this pronouncement is a gracious function of the office of the keys.

 

[mercygate]

That’s pretty interesting. I know that there are Episcopal Parishes that did that. It was not common in my parish though. I imagine that if you asked the priest to take your confession he would probably have agreed…but with a puzzled look on his face!

LOL! The Episcopal priest who became my confessor was recommended by another priest-friend of mine. When I telephoned him to make an appointment, and told him that Fr. So-and-so had recommended him, he said with utter incredulity: “He did WHAT???”

I think my first confession with him was his first also. He seemed really nervouse. But my friend was right. That middle-church priest turned out to be a wonderfull confessor!

 

[jmcrae]

Questions I get most often have to do with the details - what actually happens, what do I say, and what will the priest say? Will he give me heck? (Not usually.) Do I have to know anything, like have something memorized? (Yes, there is a standard ritual with standard dialogue responses - it’s pretty simple, though, and if you can’t remember the “correct” response, then just answer in your own words - it’s not tricky, and you already know the answers, so just listen carefully and respond in the way that makes the most sense.)

Another question that comes up a lot is, “How long will it take me to make my First Confession?” (It depends - what all do you want to confess?) I usually recommend that people make a private appointment for their First Confession.

They can also go to a communal Reconciliation Service where there are lots of priests - that way, if your Confession takes longer than other people’s, no one will really notice, and you won’t be holding anyone up, since there are lots of other priests there that they can go to.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Anne, we do not see James 5:16 as referring only to priests. We believe “anyone” is any believers. In Romans 8, we have the Holy Spirit himself praying for us.

In short, there is nothing wrong with confessing one’s sin habbits to fellow believers that can guide us towards holiness.

It likely, has more to do with the “hail marry’s” and such. We do not see them as being benefitical towards gaining forgiveness from God.

 

[Mommyof02green]

For Lutherans the greatest objection to the way Catholics practice Holy Absolution is that they tie it to satisfaction, requiring some work on the part of the penitent beyond what Christ has already done on his behalf.

Are you refering to penitence???

Receiving a “penitence” or doing an act of “penitence” is do an act of love to God, to express that we are sorry.

Example: A child breaks the neighbors window.
Confession: Child tells the neighbor he/she is sorry, and they they are the ones that broke the window.
Absolution: The neighbor tells the child that they forgive them.
Penitence: Mom and Dad pay for the replacement window, but make the child do some extra chores around the house to make up the cost of the window.

Example: A child was do home at 10:30 pm, but wasn’t home until 11:00 pm.
Confession: Child tells the parent why they are late and tells the parent they are sorry, and that it won’t happen again.
Absolution: The parent tell the child that they forgive them, and don’t want this done again for these reasons…
Penitence: Child is ground for 1 week, no phone time, no email time, no PC time, no going out.

The Pentince given does NOT over shadow or take the place of what Christ did for us. Christ died for our sin! Yes, that’s true, and nothing in this world is greater then that.

However, we have to be sorry for what we have done and we have to be willing to “repair” our relationship with God. Just like we are willing to “repair” our relationships with the family around us.

**What’s the best way to “repair” our relationship with God??? **Prayer!!! Why?? Because “prayer” is 'talking" to God!!! How can you have a realtionship with anyone if you aren’t willing to “talk” to them???

So when we go to confession to a Priest.
we confess: Tell the Priest and God what we have done.
Absloution: The Priest tells us that we are forgiven by God.
Pentence: We are told to “pray”. We are told to “talk” to God and rebuild our relationship with HIM. The closer you are to God the less will sin.

So truely a pentince is nothing more then building, repair and having an “active” relationship with God.

Yes some times our Pentince may be telling someone else we are sorry or do somthing for someone else say for example our spouse.

However, that is because, maybe, the sins we confessed had to do with our spouse and it’s God saying Yes you are forgiven. God has forgiven you, but now have to make it “right” with the person that you hurt.

True Relationships are a 2 way street! Giving and Receiving!
We already know what God has done for us! He died on the Cross! However, what have you done for God to show that you are thankful for HIS FREE, EVERLASTING and ETERNAL gift???

 

[jemfinch]

For Lutherans the greatest objection to the way Catholics practice Holy Absolution is that they tie it to satisfaction,

Absolution occurs whether or not the penance is completed. The penance serves as temporal punishment for sin. Christ’s sacrifice remitted the eternal punishment for sin (separation from God) but temporal punishment remains (we need only look at the scars of the pugnacious or the diseases of the sexually immoral to see that truth).

requiring some work on the part of the penitent beyond what Christ has already done on his behalf.

Just like Paul, we’re filling up what is lacking in Christ’s sufferings. Like Peter said, “Love covers a multitude of sins.” How can it do that, if Christ’s sacrifice already covered them entirely, completely, and in every way possible?

Jeremy

 

[jemfinch]

It likely, has more to do with the “hail marry’s” and such. We do not see them as being benefitical towards gaining forgiveness from God.

Nor does the Church, so there’s no disagreement there. All that’s necessary for forgiveness is repentance and the apostolic power to forgive sins.

"Hail Mary"s are just a common penance given as a temporal punishment for sins confessed and already absolved.

Jeremy

 

[deb1]

Deb -

Could you please post the link to your website? I am having this very discussion with my fundamentalist husband. Thank you so much for starting this because I’ve been digging for the same answers to give to him. I’d like to follow your progress.

My website is www.debsthoughts.com

I haven’t started an article on confession yet. It takes me a couple weeks to write each section because I homeschool, but please look over what I have written. I am a convert so I am still learning and growing.

 

[Sheeniac]

Questions I get most often have to do with the details - what actually happens, what do I say, and what will the priest say? Will he give me heck? (Not usually.) Do I have to know anything, like have something memorized? (Yes, there is a standard ritual with standard dialogue responses - it’s pretty simple, though, and if you can’t remember the “correct” response, then just answer in your own words - it’s not tricky, and you already know the answers, so just listen carefully and respond in the way that makes the most sense.)

I should post this reply on the ‘What I Love about my Church’ thread, but it is appropriate here. The confession booths have a “confession prayer” on a card in them. It saves me from having to confess I haven’t memorized it yet

 

[jmcrae]

I should post this reply on the ‘What I Love about my Church’ thread, but it is appropriate here. The confession booths have a “confession prayer” on a card in them. It saves me from having to confess I haven’t memorized it yet

That’s very handy!

 

[mark_a]

I seldom (lately) have mortal sins to confess. I unloaded those a few years ago. Laid it ALL right out there. And boy did it feel good!

I don’t know about y’all, but I very often get good counciling during confession, kinda like spiritual guidance.

And what a deterent!!

When I was a kid I had a friend who was always in trouble, and his mama would always say “Lawd, I better call the preacher.”

So what’s the difference? Catholics are taught that we should take ourselves the “the preacher”. The rest of y’all are forced by your mama.

But seriously, is there anything wrong with confessing to a priest or one another? I saw Swaggert do it on tv!! Would he have confessed if he hadn’t been caught, or even thought he needed to???

 

[Syele]

I love God. I love praying and talking with God.
Catholics tell me they adore Mary and feel comforted by talking to her.

How can you equate PRAYER with punishments like “being grounded, no phone time, no email time, no PC time, no going out”?

I can see prayer being considered good. I can see it as part of the process of confessing sins, asking forgiveness and I even understand reccomending prayer as a way to get a sinner closer to God. But I can’t see how prayer should ever be a punishment to add to a list of consequences!

Prayer, confession, and repentance are part of our relationship with God. Consequences are the results of our sins. God’s punishment for sin is eternal death (hell), I thank Him regularly that He is merciful and forgives rather than enforcing that 100% of the time. Even when we repent though, the consequence for our sin is still there. If you lie, you have hurt the person you lied to, you have lost their trust. When you have to confess to the person you lied to, lose their trust in you, have to become trustworthy by your actions all over again and make other amends (Depending on what you lied about), THIS is temporal punishment. Prayer is expected anyway and is a gift from God that He even allows us to talk with Him. Prayer should never be seen as punishment.

That’s like me telling my Daughter, “You disobeyed me, for your punishment you have to spend the day with me at Chuck E. Cheese’s!” It’s nothing at all like being grounded from the phone for a week.

 

[jemfinch]

That’s like me telling my Daughter, “You disobeyed me, for your punishment you have to spend the day with me at Chuck E. Cheese’s!” It’s nothing at all like being grounded from the phone for a week.

No, it’s more like telling your daughter, “You disobeyed me, now go to your room and pray about what you’ve done.” Or perhaps, “You disobeyed me, so let’s talk about your disobedience and mend the relationship.” It’s a punishment in the psychological sense of “a stimulus applied to reduce a behavior.”

It’s as if you gave your daugher a chore to do in penance for her disobedience. Yes, in an ideal world, she should love the opportunity to express her love for you and honor you by cleaning the bathroom. But, the world not being ideal, it’s still a chore for her. Sometimes (and I’m sure you’ve experienced this as well), it’s a chore to pray. In an ideal world, we would pray without ceasing, we’d constantly be in communication with God, and we’d always look forward to it; but in our less-than-ideal world, sometimes we don’t have time, or we’re not in the mood, or we’re distracted. “Prayer penances” are sometimes great, and other times are more of a chore, but at all times they’re intended to bring us even closer to God.

(It’s worth noting that not all “prayer penances” are "Hail Mary"s. I’ve gotten "Hail Mary"s, "Our Father"s, and (more often than not), prayers specific either to a sin that I confessed or a particular issue in the Church.)

Jeremy

 

[Steadfast]

Considering “temporal consequences” for sin to be, in any sense, “punishment” or penalty or satisfaction for the sins of the redeemed is, effectively, a denial of the resurrection of the flesh since in the atonement Christ has made provision for any such consequences of death and suffering as well.

The things you mentioned are natural consequences of sin being in the world and are merely cognates to death. They are neither meritorious nor punitive for the redeemed since, in His death and resurrection, Our Lord has redeemed not only the souls of men but sealed their bodies for resurrection at the last day.

So, it remains that Purgatory as well as “satisfactory penance” are denials of the Atonement as well, since they pretend to do what Christ has already done and, again effectively, reject the free gift in favor of wages.

 

[Mommyof02green]

I can see prayer being considered good. I can see it as part of the process of confessing sins, asking forgiveness and I even understand recommending prayer as a way to get a sinner closer to God. But I can’t see how prayer should ever be a punishment to add to a list of consequences!

I think this reply is related to what I posted earlier. So maybe I can “clear-up” it up.

First let me say that you are 100% right when you say:

Consequences are the results of our sins. God’s punishment for sin is eternal death (hell), I thank Him regularly that He is merciful and forgives rather than enforcing that 100% of the time. Even when we repent though, the consequence for our sin is still there. If you lie, you have hurt the person you lied to, you have lost their trust. When you have to confess to the person you lied to, lose their trust in you, have to become trustworthy by your actions all over again and make other amends (Depending on what you lied about), THIS is temporal punishment.

We have to make amends, and all those examples have to do with the relationships we have with people. Our relationship with people is similar to what our relationship with God should be.

I tell the kids in my religion class, 5th-8th grade, that our “prayer” life with God should be like our relationships with our BEST Friends. What does this mean??? Well think about it, if you went to your best friend and only told them about the things in your life that you wanted to be “fixed” would they still be your BEST friend??? Many of the kids said “NO”.

God is similar to your BEST FRIEND. He will always be friend and will always be there, but what He wants more then anything is to be your BEST Friend. He wants you tell Him about the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. He wants to hear it all, just like your Best Friend would. Clearly talking to your BEST Friend is NOT punishment.

However, I will be honest and say that at times it hard to go up to your BEST friend and just talk to them, after you have offended them. You know that you offended them; you know that they forgave you, but you still have a hard time “talking” to them. You find it hard to have a relationship. You may even spend days “avoiding” them, because you are scared that you are going to offend or hurt them again.

We humans have done that to ourselves. We load ourselves down with quilt, and many times punish ourselves when a punishment isn’t needed.

I used the examples of being out late, or breaking a window to show that there is something more then just seeking forgiveness, and that there is a step past saying, “I’m sorry” and “I forgive you”.

So the point of “penance” (I typed penitence earlier, that was a mistake) is to get right back on the horse and have that “communication” with God. It’s so that we don’t punish ourselves and trick ourselves into thinking we need to “avoid” God for a couple of days.

Maybe a better example would be the relationship between siblings. Sibling One and Sibling Two are great friends. They love each other, and get along with each other. They enjoy playing with each other and have great fun while together.

However like all Siblings they fight from time to time. Today, Sibling ONE pulls Sibling TWO hair. Sibling ONE tells Sibling TWO they are sorry. Sibling TWO said, “I forgive you” to Sibling One.

Now the Siblings are told to “play” together. Sibling One may not want to because they are still worried that Sibling Two is upset that they pulled the hair, even though Sibling Two said, “I forgive you”.

Is it really a punishment for Sibling One to play with Sibling Two??? No, it’s not. Sibling One enjoys playing with Sibling Two, it just Sibling One is allowing their own fear to stop them. Humans do that to themselves, they have a tendency to punish themselves even after they are forgiven.

So the Church in her wisdom helps the people by saying that after your confession you have to a “penance” not because it punishment, but because you have to have “communication” with God. You have to have an “active” relationship and there is no need to “avoid” God, because God has forgiven you.

Just like the Mom in her wisdom would tell Sibling One to go play with Sibling Two. Mom would say, “Sibling Two said that they forgave you. There is no reason not to play with them. Go play have fun.”

 

[Mommyof02green]

So, it remains that Purgatory as well as “satisfactory penance” are denials of the Atonement as well, since they pretend to do what Christ has already done and, again effectively, reject the free gift in favor of wages.

Purgatory- is whole different topic! This thread is about the sacrament of reconciliation, also known as confession. In my opinion, a new thread should be started to talk about purgatory. What do you think???

 

[AnneBOK]

PLEASE read John 20: 21_23

I did. And your point is? BTW - I was merely stating what has been asked of me as a Catholic by Protestants - not necessarily MY point of view…This point is a “sore spot” to say the very least between Catholics and Protestants - each side believes that they have enough “proof” to defend their point of view to the point of no doubt…
Anne

 

[AnneBOK]

Keep in mind that James was addressing his Bishops: not the general population. Since they were all priests, “to one another” meant “to a priest” - in other words, they already knew that they were supposed to hear the Confessions of the lay people who came to them; James was reminding them, “Hey, you have to go to Confession, too, so hear each other’s Confessions as well as those of the lay people.”

EXCELLENT point! This one goes a long way in defending the Catholic practice of confession to a priest.

Anne

 

[AnneBOK]

Hi Anne, we do not see James 5:16 as referring only to priests. We believe “anyone” is any believers. In Romans 8, we have the Holy Spirit himself praying for us.

In short, there is nothing wrong with confessing one’s sin habbits to fellow believers that can guide us towards holiness.

It likely, has more to do with the “hail marry’s” and such. We do not see them as being benefitical towards gaining forgiveness from God.

That is exactly what I meant - that verse is usually NOT understood as confessing only to priests. I do appreciate some of the responses, though, that have cleared this one up for me.

Anne

 

[Pug]

Keep in mind that James was addressing his Bishops: not the general population

Are you trying to say that you think the letter of James was written to an audience of priests only? If so, why?