What are regeneration and justification?

[Goodcreature]

I hear these terms used a lot by protestants, and I have a vague understanding of them, but I don’t exactly know what they mean. As I understand it, justification is a process by which God “justifies” the mercy He has on us by changing us in some way through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And I think that regeneration means an improvement of some kind that’s brought about by the Holy Spirit. I really don’t know. What does the Church teach about these things? Thank you for any help!

 

[MarcoPolo]

I am on my phone so maybe someone else can provide better links and resources for you. But many evangelical Protestants believe justification to be something God declares about a soul. God says the soul is just because he sees Christ in the soul even though the Soul is not truly just. Catholics believe When God justifies he truly cleanses truly heals the soul. You’re want to check out the Council of Trent session 6. Do a web search for that. Also check out catechism paragraphs around 1990 and following.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I hear these terms used a lot by protestants, and I have a vague understanding of them, but I don’t exactly know what they mean. As I understand it, justification is a process by which God “justifies” the mercy He has on us by changing us in some way through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And I think that regeneration means an improvement of some kind that’s brought about by the Holy Spirit. I really don’t know. What does the Church teach about these things? Thank you for any help!

It all depends on the Protestant denomination, since they don’t all agree.

The ones who typically use the language of “regeneration” are the Reformed/Calvinist Protestant denominations, and they mean by this a spiritual awakening so that when they hear the Gospel the Holy Spirit touches their heart so they recognize just how sinful they are and immediately turn and accept Jesus as their savior. There is truth to this, but that’s not how the Bible defines “regeneration”. Then from there, the Reformed/Calvinist Protestant denominations use the term “justification” by which they mean the perfect-substitutionary-Pelagian-lawkeeping of Jesus is Imputed to their account, so that God sees them as perfect law keepers (righteous) even though they are unrighteous for not having kept the law.

In reality, the Scriptures say that Justification includes an inner transformation, using the term “regeneration” to describe this, which is why Protestants don’t like Titus 3:4-7,
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
So you were right.

 

[Goodcreature]

Thank you so much guys! Right now I’m taking a course with a Reformed Protestant teacher, so I like to check her ideas against the catechism when I can, and with the forum when I’m a bit lost. Again, thank you!

 

[JonNC]

I hear these terms used a lot by protestants, and I have a vague understanding of them, but I don’t exactly know what they mean. As I understand it, justification is a process by which God “justifies” the mercy He has on us by changing us in some way through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And I think that regeneration means an improvement of some kind that’s brought about by the Holy Spirit. I really don’t know. What does the Church teach about these things? Thank you for any help!

From a Lutheran perspective, regeneration is, essentially, conversion.
cyclopedia.lcms.org/display.asp?t1=c&word=CONVERSION

For Justification, from the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

1. The Common Understanding of Justification

15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11]

16.All people are called by God to salvation in Christ. Through Christ alone are we justified, when we receive this salvation in faith. Faith is itself God’s gift through the Holy Spirit who works through word and sacrament in the community of believers and who, at the same time, leads believers into that renewal of life which God will bring to completion in eternal life.

17.We also share the conviction that the message of justification directs us in a special way towards the heart of the New Testament witness to God’s saving action in Christ: it tells us that as sinners our new life is solely due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we receive in faith, and never can merit in any way.

Jon

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Thank you so much guys! Right now I’m taking a course with a Reformed Protestant teacher, so I like to check her ideas against the catechism when I can, and with the forum when I’m a bit lost. Again, thank you!

This blog has many articles focused on easily refuting Calvinism:
catholicnick.blogspot.com/

Also check out CalledToCommunion.com which is a group of ex-Reformed writers.

 

[mackbrislawn]

This is a question I’ve had as well. It seems the more they are explained the confuseder I get. I notice baptism isn’t mentioned–so, how does baptism fit in? Many Protestants deny baptismal regeneration.

Also, they talk about sanctification, which to me sounds redundant. I mean, you are already saved, going to heaven, so what else is there? Isn’t being saved enough?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

This is a question I’ve had as well. It seems the more they are explained the confuseder I get. I notice baptism isn’t mentioned–so, how does baptism fit in? Many Protestants deny baptismal regeneration.

Baptism fits in because that is how regeneration takes place, see Titus 3:4-7.

Also, they talk about sanctification, which to me sounds redundant. I mean, you are already saved, going to heaven, so what else is there? Isn’t being saved enough?

This is because Protestants separate Justification and Sanctification into two ‘phases’ of salvation. They teach that Justification gives us the legal right to enter heaven, where as sanctification is how we inwardly become holy. In other words, the two are severed from eachother, where as they were never supposed to be (see 1 Cor 6:11). This was done because Luther’s conscience was distressed at the idea that since he struggled with sin he would never be worthy to enter heaven, so he severed the connection between Justification and Sanctification.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Baptism fits in because that is how regeneration takes place, see Titus 3:4-7.

This way of thinking doesn’t make sense to me. From that Protestant viewpoint, you’re going to heaven no matter what, so why bother being sanctified?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

This way of thinking doesn’t make sense to me. From that Protestant viewpoint, you’re going to heaven no matter what, so why bother being sanctified?

There is no good Protestant answer for this, because in the Protestant view (i.e. the historical Lutheran and Calvinist view), Sanctification was turned into a ‘footnote’ of Justification. They say the individual begins the sanctification process in order to ‘prove’ to the world and themselves that they were saved, since good works are to automatically start flowing as ‘proof’ your faith was real. Not only is that unbiblical, but it’s an affront to God’s purpose of Sanctification, which is to make the soul purified so that it is able to enter heaven. Under the Protestant view, man’s human nature is hopelessly depraved and sinful, and they teach this will never be gotten rid of in this life, so all the sanctification in the world isn’t going to ultimately fix it.

 

[JonNC]

=Catholic Dude;10222785]There is no good Protestant answer for this, because in the Protestant view (i.e. the historical Lutheran and Calvinist view), Sanctification was turned into a ‘footnote’ of Justification.

I can’t and won’t speak for Calvinists, but:

There is no justification without sanctification, no forgiveness without renewal of life, no real faith from which the fruits of new obedience do not grow. - Luther

They say the individual begins the sanctification process in order to ‘prove’ to the world and themselves that they were saved, since good works are to automatically start flowing as ‘proof’ your faith was real.

Source, please.

What do you mean by “automatically”? Good works are the call and command of Christ, not to prove anything, but through obedience to Him, ti help the least of His children.
Additionally, to say “that they were saved” probably doesn’t fit well with Lutheran thought since we recognize that individuals can turn from grace.

Not only is that unbiblical, but it’s an affront to God’s purpose of Sanctification, which is to make the soul purified so that it is able to enter heaven.

I certainly wouldn’t deny this.

Under the Protestant view, man’s human nature is hopelessly depraved and sinful, and they teach this will never be gotten rid of in this life, so all the sanctification in the world isn’t going to ultimately fix it

Not totally, of course. Hence, the phrase “at once saint and sinner”. But there is an expectation that we grow in grace, a phrase that was part of my Confirmation.

Jon

 

[banskevie]

You’re want to check out the Council of Trent session 6.

 

[De_Maria]

I hear these terms used a lot by protestants, and I have a vague understanding of them, but I don’t exactly know what they mean. As I understand it, justification is a process by which God “justifies” the mercy He has on us by changing us in some way through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

That sounds right.

The Church teaches that justification is the work of God:
1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God’s love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that “the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth,” because “heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away.” He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

And I think that regeneration means an improvement of some kind that’s brought about by the Holy Spirit. I really don’t know. What does the Church teach about these things? Thank you for any help!

That sounds right also:

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.

So, being regenerated means to become children of God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[mackbrislawn]

There is no good Protestant answer for this, because in the Protestant view (i.e. the historical Lutheran and Calvinist view), Sanctification was turned into a ‘footnote’ of Justification. They say the individual begins the sanctification process in order to ‘prove’ to the world and themselves that they were saved, since good works are to automatically start flowing as ‘proof’ your faith was real. Not only is that unbiblical, but it’s an affront to God’s purpose of Sanctification, which is to make the soul purified so that it is able to enter heaven. Under the Protestant view, man’s human nature is hopelessly depraved and sinful, and they teach this will never be gotten rid of in this life, so all the sanctification in the world isn’t going to ultimately fix it.

No wonder I didn’t make sense of it. There is no sense of it to be made.

 

[mackbrislawn]

JonNC;10226064

Good works are the call and command of Christ, not to prove anything, but through obedience to Him, ti help the least of His children.

True, good works are the command of Christ. And they help His children. But what good do they do the worker? Are they necessary for his salvation? What if he doesn’t do them?

…we recognize that individuals can turn from grace.

Not totally, of course. Hence, the phrase “at once saint and sinner”. But there is an expectation that we grow in grace, a phrase that was part of my Confirmation.

For those that feel we can’t turn from grace, once saved always saved, what is the point in growing in grace? Since they are going to heaven anyway?

 

[De_Maria]

JonNC;10226064

True, good works are the command of Christ. And they help His children. But what good do they do the worker?

They become righteous in the sight of God (Rom 2:13).

Are they necessary for his salvation?

Yes
Revelation 22:14-15
King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

What if he doesn’t do them?

See above.

 

[fhansen]

I hear these terms used a lot by protestants, and I have a vague understanding of them, but I don’t exactly know what they mean. As I understand it, justification is a process by which God “justifies” the mercy He has on us by changing us in some way through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And I think that regeneration means an improvement of some kind that’s brought about by the Holy Spirit. I really don’t know. What does the Church teach about these things? Thank you for any help!

Man’s true justice consists of love, to love God with his whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and his neighbor as himself-the greatest commandments.This is what holiness means, and this is how the Law is fulfilled, since “love fulfills the Law” (Rom 13:8-10). And God accomplishes this work in us via the New Covenant, keeping the promises set forth in Jer 31:33-34, becoming the God of us again, ‘placing His laws on our hearts and writing them in our minds’.

As MarcoPolo suggested, read Trent, session 6 on justification. Also the Catechism on justification beginning on para 1987 here: scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm
and the New Law beginning on para 1965 here: scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a1.htm#III

 

[JonNC]

=mackbrislawn;10315606]
True, good works are the command of Christ. And they help His children. But what good do they do the worker? Are they necessary for his salvation? What if he doesn’t do them?

Doesn’t scripture say we are rewarded in Heaven for good works?

Are they necessary for salvation? The Formula of Concord:

1. Accordingly, we also believe, teach, and confess that when it is said: The regenerate do good works from a free spirit, **this is not to be understood as though it is at the option of the regenerate man to do or to forbear doing good when he wishes, and that he can nevertheless retain faith if he intentionally perseveres in sins. **

If one intentionally perseveres in sins, he can’t retain faith.

For those that feel we can’t turn from grace, once saved always saved, what is the point in growing in grace? Since they are going to heaven anyway?

Hopefully someone who believes this will respond.

Jon

 

[De_Maria]

Doesn’t scripture say we are rewarded in Heaven for good works?

Yes. But Scripture also says that those who do not do good works are condemned:
Matthew 25:31-46
King James Version (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

** And that those who do not keep the Commandments are condemned:**
Revelation 22:14-15
King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

And Scripture also says that only those who do the works of the Law are justified:

Romans 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Are they necessary for salvation? The Formula of Concord:

The Formula of Concord contains a great deal of Protestant error.

If one intentionally perseveres in sins, he can’t retain faith.

Correct.

Hopefully someone who believes this will respond.

I don’t know what you mean by that. But if I understand your comment correctly, it is in error. Good works are necessary for salvation. God only saves the righteous. The righteous are those who live according to the will of God. And God’s will is expressed in the Commandments.

Good works don’t save us. But God won’t save anyone who does not do good works in accordance with His Will:
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Jon

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[JonNC]

=De Maria;10319388]Yes. But Scripture also says that those who do not do good works are condemned:

I think that’s essentially what the quote says. We cannot intentionallu persevere in sin and expect to retain faith.

The Formula of Concord contains a great deal of Protestant error.

Well, that’s fine for you to say, but how about being specific regarding the quote I provided.
How is that a “protestant error”?

Correct.

If this is correct, why all the stuff above?

I don’t know what you mean by that.

Here’s what mack said:

For those that feel we can’t turn from grace, once saved always saved, what is the point in growing in grace? Since they are going to heaven anyway?

What I meant was that I don’t believe in OSAS, or perseverence of the saints.

But if I understand your comment correctly, it is in error. Good works are necessary for salvation.

Necessary in what way? As a response to grace, the New Obedience, borne of joyful willingness, like that of a child, or borne of an effort, out of fear, to add to Christ’s saving work?

God only saves the righteous. The righteous are those who live according to the will of God. And God’s will is expressed in the Commandments.

*What then? Are we Jewsa any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;*

Good works don’t save us. But God won’t save anyone who does not do good works in accordance with His Will:
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Again, I think the quote for the Formula of Concord says exactly this: good works won’t save us, but they are required of us.

Jon