What are some reasons in your opinion to convert religions?

[AlNg]

John 15:26 Yes… upon reading it again however it seems the Holy Spirit comes from the Father,

Yes. You will find Orthodox Christians who will point to this passage which says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Although I tend to believe in their theology and practices more so than the Catholic Church

Thing is, Eastern Catholic theology is literally same as Eastern Orthodox theology. There is no difference. Only difference is in ecclesiology (structure of the Church).

So in a nutshell, I believe both Catholicism and Orthodoxy is true, so Im at a loss.

So do Catholics. Only problem Church has with Orthodoxy is that it denies Petrine authority really.

Immaculate conception (I believe it, but don’t consider it dogma)

Everything true should be dogma. Jesus is the Truth and as such God is Truth. Truth is way to God and as such leads to Life… and Life is also God ("I am the Truth, Way and Life). If Immaculate Conception is true why would it not be dogma? There is no use in hiding Truth when we know it is Truth. We should not hide Jesus from the world.

the ultimate power of the pope

I am very negative towards centralisation of the Church towards Rome, but Papal power must stay to safeguard Church from error. Were it only for conciliar approach, contraception (which was condemned by one of great Greek Fathers, John Chrysostom) would be allowed in Catholic Church. Thanks to power of the Pope it is not.

divorce,

How do you mean this? Jesus was very clear on the matter of divorce.

I’ve never felt at home with a rosary but have been drawn to the healing power of prayer ropes.

Same! And I am Latin Catholic… yet it is fully legitimate to not pray Rosary and adopt Eastern Catholic practices such as prayer ropes.

The western traditions seem to place much more understanding of what God is while the eastern rights focus on what God isn’t, which to me makes me understand got better

Eastern view can be found in Eastern Catholic Church. You are free to adhere to that theology because it is equally true. It is just different approach. Some prefer Latin one and some prefer Eastern one. Church accepts both.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

John 15: 26 ?

upon reading it again however it seems the Holy Spirit comes from the Father, and that’s where Jesus gets it…

Thing is, Catholics do believe Holy Spirit comes from the Father. Bible is clear on that. However it never says that Holy Spirit comes from the Father and not the Son.

John 16,13 – 15 speaks about how Holy Spirit is also of the Son.
Romans 8,9 and Galatians 4,6 speaks about Holy Spirit as Spirit of the Son and Spirit of Christ.

Church Fathers speak about that too:

Cyril of Alexandria:
“For, in that the Son is God, and from God according to nature (for He has had His birth from God the Father), the Spirit is both proper to Him and in Him and from Him, just as, to be sure, the same thing is understood to hold true in the case of God the Father Himself.”
“The Spirit is assuredly in no way changeable; or even if some think Him to be so infirm as to change, the disgrace will be traced back to the divine nature itself, if in fact the Spirit is from God the Father and, for that matter, from the Son, being poured forth substantially from both, that is to say, from the Father through the Son.”

St. Athanasius:
Insofar as we understand the special relationship of the Son to the Father, we also understand that the Spirit has this same relationship to the Son. And since the Son says, “everything that the Father has is mine (John 16:15),” we will discover all these things also in the Spirit through the Son. And just as the Son was announced by the Father, who said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased (Matthew 3:17),” so also is the Spirit of the Son; for, as the Apostle says, "He has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! Father!’ (Galatians 4:6)."

St. Ambrose:
The Holy Spirit also, when He proceeds from the Father and the Son, is not separated from the Father nor separated from the Son. For how could He be separated from the Father Who is the Spirit of His mouth? Which is certainly both a proof of His eternity, and expresses the Unity of this Godhead.

Tertullian:
“Now the Spirit indeed is third from God and the Son; just as the fruit of the tree is third from the root, or as the stream out of the river is third from the fountain, or as the apex of the ray is third from the sun.”

 

[Anna4]

Thank you so much, this provided so much clarity. For the immaculate conception, I have to admit I don’t fully understand it yet, so more research needs to be done before I can really say anything. What seems to make sense is that Mary was completely sinless when the Holy Spirit impregnated her with Jesus, because anything full of sin would be destroyed naturally by God (like putting a log in the fire) however I’m not entirely certain that she was completely sinless throughout her entire life before this point. But I know I’ll come across the answer later.

 

[Anna4]

You’re right. Thank you so much for the clarification

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

For the immaculate conception, I have to admit I don’t fully understand it yet, so more research needs to be done before I can really say anything. What seems to make sense is that Mary was completely sinless when the Holy Spirit impregnated her with Jesus, because anything full of sin would be destroyed naturally by God (like putting a log in the fire) however I’m not entirely certain that she was completely sinless throughout her entire life before this point. But I know I’ll come across the answer later.

East believes she was sinless throughout her life. They call her more honorable than Cherubim and pure in their Liturgy. It is not this part of dogma that Orthodoxy disagrees with (if there is any). It is mostly “original sin” East has different approach to, and hence Latin formulation of the dogma tends to be confusing in Eastern sense. East professes she was pure and sinless, but mostly focuses on Blessed Virgin’s faithfulness to God. West focuses on how God prepared her for that role. Both are compatible with each other but difference in approach is sometimes interpreted as contradiction- which it is not.

Thank you so much, this provided so much clarity

I thank you for being curious. I learned by searching for information to base my post on too. I am glad for opportunity to be helpful.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

You’re right. Thank you so much for the clarification

You are most welcome. I would like to add that original Creed (and one used in Eastern Churches to this day) speaks about Spirit coming from the Father and does not mention Son. This is not heresy neither does Church forbid that. Eastern Churches are free (and asked to) use older version without Filioque which corresponds to their tradition. In some languages (such as Greek), if we translate Filioque it can lead people to heresy and hence in those languages Filioque is omitted.

(Technically you can translate Filioque to Greek but it would add almost entire full sentence to Creed as you would have to use two different verbs for “proceeds from Father” and “proceeds from the Son” and hence it is not done)

 

[AlNg]

Thing is, Eastern Catholic theology is literally same as Eastern Orthodox theology. There is no difference.

I don’t think so. I may be wrong on these issues, but my understanding was as follows:
Eastern Catholics believe in papal infallibility and universal papal supremacy. Eastern Orthodox do not.
Eastern Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son. Eastern Orthodox believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
Eastern Catholics do not accept divorce and remarriage. Using oikonomia, Eastern Orthodox accept church approved divorce for serious reasons.
Eastern Catholic fasting is a whole lot lighter than Eastern Orthodox fasting.
Eastern Catholics believe that artificial contraception is always gravely wrong. Using oikonomia, an Eastern Orthodox priest may grant leniency on this to some married couples with several children who are experiencing financial difficulties.
Eastern Catholics have no problem with purgatory or indulgences. Eastern Orthodox reject indulgences.
Eastern Catholics accept the Immaculate Conception. Eastern Orthodox do not.
Add to that that many Eastern Catholics in Ukraine, Ukrainian Greek Catholics, have a quite serious dislike of the Russian Orthodox Church. One or two posters here on CAF have indicated that. Further, if there is no difference between Ukrainian Greek Catholicism and Russian Orthodoxy, why do Ukrainian Greek Catholics say that they have been betrayed by the meeting between Pope Francis and the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill? If Russian Orthodox and Eastern Catholics have literally the same beliefs, as you claim, why should Eastern Catholics in Ukraine show such opposition to a call from Pope Francis to promote unity and reconciliation with the Russian Orthodox Church?

Ukrainian Greek Catholics 'betrayed' by pope-patriarch meeting

And from a theological viewpoint there appears to be a serious difference on the energies - essence distinction.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Eastern Orthodox believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

If you mean that they believe “from the Father alone” then Orthodoxy is divided on that… some theologians hold “through the Son” and some oppose it, some ignore it… Early Fathers have, as I have shown, believed in “through the Son” theology. Is there a Church Father who says Holy Spirit comes from the Father alone? Alone part is very necessary for your point.

Eastern Catholics believe in papal infallibility

True. That is one difference… though tied closely to ecclesiology.

universal papal supremacy.

That is ecclesiology more than pure theology.

Eastern Catholics do not accept divorce and remarriage. Using oikonomia, Eastern Orthodox accept church approved divorce for serious reasons.

Not general rule but even if so, that seems pretty biblical to me. Yet, point taken… second difference.

Eastern Catholics have no problem with purgatory or indulgences.

Not necessarily. Eastern Catholics profess same theology on Purification as Eastern Orthodox too. They just believe it to be (and rightfully so in my opinion) to be compatible with Latin view- unlike Orthodox. I don’t believe I can count opposition to foreign tradition as difference in theology.

Eastern Catholics accept the Immaculate Conception. Eastern Orthodox do not.

Again that is purely opposition to Latin position, not inherently difference in theology.

Add to that that many Eastern Catholics in Ukraine, Ukrainian Greek Catholics, have a quite serious dislike of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Sure but that’s hardly theology. One group dislikes another? Sad but in the end Orthodox of Ukrainian Patriarchate tend to be less than warm towards Russian Orthodox Church too. Russian Orthodox Church considers them illegitimate and broke communion with Ecumenical Patriarchate for that. Hardly ideal scenario between Ukrainian Orthodox and Russian Orthodox. Might be more Ukrainian-Russian thing than Catholic-Orthodox thing. I know Ukraine is divided on this issue (some love Russia some hate it) but that hardly concerns only Ukrainian Catholics…

And from a theological viewpoint there appears to be a serious difference on the energies - essence distinction.

Eastern Catholics share Orthodox theology about this. Once again though they understand that Latin view is essentially same but with different terminology, and some Orthodox deny that. Some Orthodox also don’t deny that. This is more about Latin and Greek approach than Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox approach.

 

[JohnWithFries]

I’m glad you found a Latin Mass! I went to one for years, but I don’t trust my current vehicle out of town, sadly.

I’ll be visiting a friend out of state soon and while I’m there I’ll be going to a Latin Mass as well as a (Catholic) Divine Liturgy

 

[Neithan]

BTW, this might give you pause–several prominent Evangelical Protestants have converted–to Orthodoxy. What this tells me is that they are still trying to be Evangelical Protestant and refuse to accept that Jesus appointed Peter as the Pope and His disciples as bishops–they don’t want to accept the teaching that a God-appointed human being is “in charge” of His Church here on earth.

Very true. When I became convinced that the church must be ancient and universal, I also wanted to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, because my prejudice against the papacy was so deep. Luther said this was the Anti-Christ and I believed it, at least in my head: it was hard to actually look at or listen to Pope John Paul II and see any truth in it. Ironically of course Luther turned himself into an anti-pope, even from beyond the grave.

The deep ties to cultural tradition and autocephaly along national lines in Eastern Orthodoxy is not all bad, but it did reinforce to me that I’m Western, not Eastern.

 

[Anna4]

What is the difference on thoughts of energies that Eastern Catholics versus Orthodox have?

 

[AlNg]

What is the difference on thoughts of energies that Eastern Catholics versus Orthodox have?

i am not sure about this. I know that there was a discussion about Catholic versus Orthodox views on the energies - essence distinction. I don’t know if the Eastern Catholics follow the Roman Catholic or the Eastern Orthodox teaching.
Just as an additional comment, i noticed that there was no response to the differences in fasting between the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches. My understanding is that the Eastern Orthodox fasting regulations are much stricter than the Eastern Catholic fasting regulations.

 

[sudy]

Eastern Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son. Eastern Orthodox believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

I’m only loosely following but John 20:22 springs to mind ‘he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.”’

 

[Katsuobushi]

I was non-religious until 10 years ago. I started going to a Protestant church in Tokyo, after I started in believing Higher Existence far above humanity. But when I learned about Fatima messages by Virgin Mary, I somehow believed they contained truth. So after about 4 months, I switched to Catholic. The pastor of the Protestant church didn’t like my decision and took me out of the church building one day and he tried to persuade me not to agree with Catholic belief in Virgin Mary. He probably thought I fell in a trap of idle worshiping in Catholicism. Today, I am Catholic and not going to change to any other denomination. I pray Rosary everyday. Praying rosary brings stability my life and I’d like to continue until my last day.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Just as an additional comment, i noticed that there was no response to the differences in fasting between the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches. My understanding is that the Eastern Orthodox fasting regulations are much stricter than the Eastern Catholic fasting regulations.

Oh I am sorry. I missed that. Anyway, I think this largely depends on each Eastern Church but majority hold same fast as Orthodoxy.

 

[Anna4]

This story is beautiful, thank you for sharing this with me. I see that most Protestants do not have an accurate understanding of Catholicism and how biblically sound it is. They tend to think things on a very literal level (thinking the Earth is actually flat and God is actually in the sky.) God is much more complex than that. The catholic and apostolic church holds the wonderful deep mysteries of spirituality.

 

[ThomasMT]

Before you leave, please try at least two things:

1. Find the nearest Latin Mass (one in full communion with the Catholic Church) and attend at least 10 Latin Masses

Great recommendation. The OP pretty much described my own experience the first time I attended a TLM. @Anna4 I entertained the idea of the Eastern Rite as well. Ultimately, it came down to the Papacy. We have it, they don’t and, for me, there is no way around that.

 

[gohjedrek]

I would think that they do have some literal and some non-literal, but the gist is that they hold to scripture as the main and sole authority. Once this view is adopted, the way they perceive truth changes. Converted from it because tradition matters, the bible is not the sole rule of faith for me.

I think I also didn’t want to subscribe to a faith that feels good every time. There is no point in going to a church to be nourished with biblical knowledge, the point of church is to worship God with reverence.

 

[Kindnessmatters]

I am not sure what you mean by orthodoxy here. Are you talking about the Eastern Orthodox or Greek Orthodox or Ukrainian Orthodox or other rites of the church?

You can become a more orthodox Roman Catholic simply by more closely adhering to and practicing the faith. “Orthodox” in religion simply means accepting and practicing what is established in the religion as right and true.

Some examples might be if a person who hasn’t been to confession in years starts going whenever they are not in a state of Grace to accept communion; a person who attends Mass occasionally deciding to make it a paramount priority every week; a person who does not usually observe Lent or holy days of obligation learning about and practicing dietary fasting and abstinence rules and attending mass on all days of obligation; living the teaching of the Church, such as not voting for politicians who support abortions, not having sex outside of marriage, not using the Lord’s name in vain and so on

In short, you do not have to leave Roman Catholicism (the typical Catholic Church of Western Europe, south and central America and the US) to become more orthodox. It is a matter of not being a “cafeteria Catholic” who picks and chooses what we do and don’t like or agree with as if we are getting religion in a buffet line. As with in the buffet line, this style of faith practice leaves us with not enough vegetables and too much dessert.