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sinnerdexter
Guest
Let us try to explore the relationship and responsibility between Catholicism and Protestantism as brothers and sisters.
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rjparson
Guest
I think prayer to saints/Mary, purgatory, etc. are most Protestant’s primary objections, but I think most conflicts originate from Catholicism’s sacerdotal, authoritative priesthood vs. the Protestant “priesthood of all believers.”
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Lutheranteach
Guest
Multiple: Authority system, non voluntary clerical celibacy, intercession of the saints, overall rules and structure, social policy.
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JRKH
Guest
Everything boils down to authority.
We accept an single, unified, authoritative Church, Protestants reject a single, unified, authoritative Church.
My apologies to those protestants, like anglicans and Lutherans who have, at least somewhat, authoritative structures.
Peace
James
We accept an single, unified, authoritative Church, Protestants reject a single, unified, authoritative Church.
My apologies to those protestants, like anglicans and Lutherans who have, at least somewhat, authoritative structures.
Peace
James
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Izdaari
Guest
All this figures in for me.
But this is the main thing. I believe in the priesthood of all believers, not in an authoritative priesthood with a hierarchical, bureaucratic earthly structure.
J
JRKH
Guest
Just as a point of clarification - The Catholic Church also believes in the “priesthood of all believers”.
1268 The baptized have become “living stones” to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood." By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light.” Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.
Such a belief does not preclude either heirarchy OR unified and authoritative teaching body.
Peace
James
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rjparson
Guest
Sure, there’s rhetorical similarities, but the Protestant “priesthood of all believers” can’t absolve sins, celebrate Mass, etc.
J
JRKH
Guest
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Shiranui117
Guest
Authority Systems was my vote, and both tradition and Tradition I decided to lump into that; many Protestants simply want to do their own thing, look at Christianity their own way, which, while in and of itself is not a bad thing, it means that they may not be willing to defer to Sacred Tradition that has been handed down and maintained for over 2000 years now. And this includes such things as Purgatory, intercessory prayers, clerical celibacy(which I would like to note is not required in many Eastern Catholic Churches, nor is it doctrine in the Roman Church), Immaculate Conception, Papal Supremacy, etc.
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mo2169
Guest
– Sacraments? or lack of?
– Although the CC does not (or should not) worship Mary, I think some protestants think we do.
I actually think some Catholics do worship Mary and Saints (mostly in other countries), but that’s just my take and a whole other issue…
We are to highly "admire’ Mary - - and the statues,Saints, etc,etc…
– Protestants (from my experience) seem to know/study the Bible much more than us Catholics. Again, my personal experience and view on this…
We both Love our Father, Son and Holy Spirit… what matters most!
God Bless…
– Although the CC does not (or should not) worship Mary, I think some protestants think we do.
I actually think some Catholics do worship Mary and Saints (mostly in other countries), but that’s just my take and a whole other issue…
We are to highly "admire’ Mary - - and the statues,Saints, etc,etc…
– Protestants (from my experience) seem to know/study the Bible much more than us Catholics. Again, my personal experience and view on this…
We both Love our Father, Son and Holy Spirit… what matters most!
God Bless…
P
PJM
Guest
***The primary issue it seems to me revolves around Pope Benedicts XVI statement about TRUTH in his acceptance speech upon beleing elected our Pope.
QUOTE**: “There cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be NO Tuth.”***
***Because this is a logical fact, and that God Willed [biblicaly proveable… John 14 an John 17…] to insure the Truth of His Churches Teachings on aLL MATTERS of Faith and or Morals, Protestants necessarily find themselves in a position of trying to disprove truth to justify there existence. This is clearly applicable to what the Bible actually says and means.
Love and prayers,***
Pat **
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Izdaari
Guest
That’s right! Thanks for the clarification!
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Izdaari
Guest
I do accept a role for Sacred Tradition. I just don’t see the RC, EO or OO churches as the sole repositories or arbiters of it. Rather, the traditions of all of Christendom deserve consideration and deference, though they must be balanced against scripture, reason and experience. (Very Anglican/Methodist of me I know. What can I say? I’m as much Anglican as Pentecostal.)
Papal Supremacy is the main sticking point for me, the one thing I just cannot accept. That, and social teachings, particularly in the area of theology of the body, that I believe are just wrong. The failure of the Church to deal decisively with its pedophilia scandals is another thing that makes me distrust it. That’s similar to Toyota’s mishandling of the unintended acceleration recalls, something that brings discredit to the brand – except that Toyota is doing a better job of fixing it. But all that is secondary to the Papal Supremacy question.
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JRKH
Guest
This is actually what I consider to be the great strength of the Catholic Church. The Church rarely rejects outright different “traditions”. We run the gamut from “alleluia charismatic” to “deeply contemplative and mystical”. From simple childlike acceptance, to deeply rational and reasoned proofs of fiath. From St Francis to St Thomas Aquanis; from Eastern Rite Churches to the Latin Rite Church even to the development of the ordinate for the incluson of the Anglican Rite, Holy Mother Church is Hugely inclusive.
What The Church provides, in addition to all this diversity, is a central authority and anchor for the inevitable friction that naturally arises in such a huge and diverse group of believers. She provides the sounding board, and 'debating society" and ultimately the arbiter of disputes so that all of the various spiritualities in the Church can function together. This service that she performs is beautifully spelled out Mt 18:15-18.
I would just say that, in any group there has to be a “tiebreaker” and “one who speaks for all”. To a very large extent that is what the pope is.
I understand how the noncatholic can read about the office of pope and his authority and say - eeeaawwww:dts: - That’s not right. I can’t accept that. In fact I went through a time of feeling that way too. Yet looking at his authority is but one side of the coin. One must also look at his responsibilities. Huge and heavy responsibilities for the protection and promotion of the faith as received from Christ.
Rarely if ever does the pope speak or write “from the hip” or “off the cuff” on matters of teaching. Always the teachings are things thuroughly researched and thought through by the Magesterium as a whole and over many years.
Hope this helps.
Peace
James
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poetryforjesus
Guest
James, I love this explanation. Thank you.!
This is actually what I consider to be the great strength of the Catholic Church. The Church rarely rejects outright different “traditions”. We run the gamut from “alleluia charismatic” to “deeply contemplative and mystical”. From simple childlike acceptance, to deeply rational and reasoned proofs of fiath. From St Francis to St Thomas Aquanis; from Eastern Rite Churches to the Latin Rite Church even to the development of the ordinate for the incluson of the Anglican Rite, Holy Mother Church is Hugely inclusive.
What The Church provides, in addition to all this diversity, is a central authority and anchor for the inevitable friction that naturally arises in such a huge and diverse group of believers. She provides the sounding board, and 'debating society" and ultimately the arbiter of disputes so that all of the various spiritualities in the Church can function together. This service that she performs is beautifully spelled out Mt 18:15-18.
I would just say that, in any group there has to be a “tiebreaker” and “one who speaks for all”. To a very large extent that is what the pope is.
I understand how the noncatholic can read about the office of pope and his authority and say - eeeaawwww:dts: - That’s not right. I can’t accept that. In fact I went through a time of feeling that way too. Yet looking at his authority is but one side of the coin. One must also look at his responsibilities. Huge and heavy responsibilities for the protection and promotion of the faith as received from Christ.
Rarely if ever does the pope speak or write “from the hip” or “off the cuff” on matters of teaching. Always the teachings are things thuroughly researched and thought through by the Magesterium as a whole and over many years.
Hope this helps.
Peace
James
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mo2169
Guest
I’d just like to add that the CC has made many errors/mistakes in the past as it has recently.
Pedophilia, Sale of Indulgences (therefore the Protestant movement), The Great Schism, amongst other errors/mistakes by Pope Leo X and Constantine.
As long as there are Humans and Sin in this world, there will be errors/mistakes.
Looking through the Bible, you can see that the first anointed King Saul turned away from God. There are others that made errors but for the most part followed and loved God dearly (King David). Similar situation with some of Jesus’ Apostles and Disciples - Popes are no different.
We should not expect any Church to be perfect.
“Perfection” is only found in God Himself and in Jesus.
People are quick to put down the CC and other Churches because of our media’s negative and destructive messages and information they pick up from uneducated sources.
Do your homework on Jesus and His many wonderful Churches, it’s worth the ride…
God Bless you all…
Pedophilia, Sale of Indulgences (therefore the Protestant movement), The Great Schism, amongst other errors/mistakes by Pope Leo X and Constantine.
As long as there are Humans and Sin in this world, there will be errors/mistakes.
Looking through the Bible, you can see that the first anointed King Saul turned away from God. There are others that made errors but for the most part followed and loved God dearly (King David). Similar situation with some of Jesus’ Apostles and Disciples - Popes are no different.
We should not expect any Church to be perfect.
“Perfection” is only found in God Himself and in Jesus.
People are quick to put down the CC and other Churches because of our media’s negative and destructive messages and information they pick up from uneducated sources.
Do your homework on Jesus and His many wonderful Churches, it’s worth the ride…
God Bless you all…
R
roveau
Guest
Possibly not in order of importance and certainly not exhaustive:
- Transubstantiation.
- The veneration of saints.
- Purgatory.
- The Pope.
- Doctrine of infallibility.
- The form of the Mass.
- Celibate priesthood.
- Use of sacramentals.
- Use of relics.
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Snowymom
Guest
This is only based on my experiences being raised in a Protestant family that had left Catholism and then finding my way back home to the Catholic Church. Before even dealing with many of the barriers previously mentioned, I have found some basic barriers that cause much trouble.
-How words are defined
Sometimes words mean one thing to a Catholic and another thing to a Protestant.
-Being misinformed
Often times (in my experience), Protestants are misinformed about Catholism and they think we believe things that we most certainly do not.
-Lack of knowledge
As a Protestant, I often encountered Catholics who did not fully understand why it is that they held certain beliefs.
God Bless!
Melinda
-How words are defined
Sometimes words mean one thing to a Catholic and another thing to a Protestant.
-Being misinformed
Often times (in my experience), Protestants are misinformed about Catholism and they think we believe things that we most certainly do not.
-Lack of knowledge
As a Protestant, I often encountered Catholics who did not fully understand why it is that they held certain beliefs.
God Bless!
Melinda
K
kingal86
Guest
I’d imagine for existing Anglican-Catholic clergy, the celibate priesthood as a concept may be an issue (though I think they are allowed to swim the Tiber with their wives at the moment).
For me (although since I’m unsure in my beliefs–some a bit relativistic and uncertain–I’m not sure how much I count as a Protestant) papal infallibility, the all-male clergy, clerical celibacy, the teaching on contraception and non-penetrative sexual activity (and if I’m honest esp. masturbation being a mortal sin) are major barriers. This site has corrected some of my reservations about Marian devotion, the saints etc. (at least with regard to the theory)
With papal infallibility I just imagine what would happen if the Pope lost his marbles, and in general can’t accept that certain things a man says can be infallible.
Some parts of Catholic theology and tradition, e.g. “works and faith”, confession to a priest (which I imagine has psychological benefits and deters sinning), make more sense to me than literalist, born-again “by faith alone”, sola scriptura Protestant denominations. Works makes much more sense to me as a basis for judging people. I don’t understand Calvinist determinism at all. I also prefer liturgical worship.
For me (although since I’m unsure in my beliefs–some a bit relativistic and uncertain–I’m not sure how much I count as a Protestant) papal infallibility, the all-male clergy, clerical celibacy, the teaching on contraception and non-penetrative sexual activity (and if I’m honest esp. masturbation being a mortal sin) are major barriers. This site has corrected some of my reservations about Marian devotion, the saints etc. (at least with regard to the theory)
With papal infallibility I just imagine what would happen if the Pope lost his marbles, and in general can’t accept that certain things a man says can be infallible.
Some parts of Catholic theology and tradition, e.g. “works and faith”, confession to a priest (which I imagine has psychological benefits and deters sinning), make more sense to me than literalist, born-again “by faith alone”, sola scriptura Protestant denominations. Works makes much more sense to me as a basis for judging people. I don’t understand Calvinist determinism at all. I also prefer liturgical worship.
J
JRKH
Guest
Just want to try and address the particular point on infallibility.
First, you do understand that not everything the pope says is infallible don’t you? It’s not as if he can just wake up one morning and start issuing “infallible” “new” doctrine. It simply does not work that way. Such statements are the result of years of discussion, debate and prayerful reflection.
So - If a pontiff “Lost his marbles” (a disease that generally happens gradually) to some form of dementia there wouls be signs that those around him would note and then he would be properly treated fot he illness and the Church would be properly shielded from any possilbe harm in “matters of Faith and Morals”.
The other matters you mention in your first paragraph will begin to make more sense as you draw closer to the Church.
Hope this helps
Peace
James
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