What are the boundaries for chaste kissing?

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Prudence2

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So yesterday I was browsing a ton of the forums on this website, and to be honest, I was shocked by most of what I read. Maybe my possible ignorance is due to the fact I just got into my first relationship since I had a two-week fling six years ago ( which was back in my lukewarm days when I went to a very progressive, secular, pro-LGBT high school), so I have no experience with Catholic dating up until now.

Basically, leading up to this point, I had always thought that the only sinful kind of physical contact in pre-marital relationships is touching any of the intimate areas (such as the parts that would be covered by a modest bikini or swim shorts). But I’d always thought that any kind of kissing was fine, (though before marriage, I personally would prefer to keep french kissing pretty minimal and refrain from necking and/or kissing for more than two minutes.) However, a majority of the threads on this website implied that kissing your boyfriend/girlfriend on the lips for more than a few seconds is an objectively grave matter… some even said that passionate kissing between spouses is sinful outside of procreation. I considered a lot of this an extreme opposite from what I’ve thought previously, and I was wondering if I could have some clarification on the matter, especially because I want to share a chaste relationship with my boyfriend? (He’s 27 and I’m almost 23, by the way, and we’re both Catholic.)

I have learned a lot from my reading yesterday that intention is crucial when it comes to this kind of intimacy (i.e. it is definitely sinful if you kiss someone you’re dating with the intention of arousing them). I honestly had never assessed my desires in that way, but after reflecting on those points, I totally agree with them. I will definitely be mindful of this in my relationship here on out. But I do have some particular questions concerning the objective morality of certain kinds of kissing and what boundaries need to be set before marriage:
  1. Is it wrong to share an affectionate, gentle kiss with your boyfriend/girlfriend for up to two minutes?
  2. What duration of a kiss would be considered prolonged/passionate?
  3. Is slightly parting the lips while you kiss considered chaste, or must it be completely and absolutely closed-mouthed?
God bless!
 
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So yesterday I was browsing a ton of the forums on this website, and to be honest, I was shocked by most of what I read. Maybe my ignorance is due to the fact I just got into my first relationship since I had a two-week fling six years ago (which was back in my lukewarm days when I went to a very progressive, secular, pro-LGBT high school), so I have no experience with Catholic dating up until now.

Basically, leading up to this point, I had always thought that the only sinful kind of physical contact in pre-marital relationships is touching any of the intimate areas (such as the parts that would be covered by a modest bikini or swim shorts). But I’d always thought that any kind of kissing was fine, (though before marriage, I personally would prefer to keep french kissing pretty minimal and refrain from necking and/or kissing for more than two minutes.) However, a majority of the threads on this website implied that kissing your boyfriend/girlfriend on the lips for more than a few seconds is an objectively grave matter… some even said that passionate kissing between spouses is sinful outside of procreation. I considered a lot of this an extreme opposite from what I’ve thought previously, and I was wondering if I could have some clarification on the matter, especially because I want to share a chaste relationship with my boyfriend? (He’s 27 and I’m almost 23, by the way, and we’re both Catholic.)

I have learned a lot from my reading yesterday that intention is crucial when it comes to this kind of intimacy (i.e. it is definitely sinful if you kiss someone you’re dating with the intention of arousing them). I honestly had never assessed my desires in that way, but after reflecting on those points, I totally agree with them. I will definitely be mindful of this in my relationship here on out. But I do have some particular questions concerning the objective morality of certain kinds of kissing and what boundaries need to be set before marriage:

1.Is it wrong to share an affectionate, gentle kiss with your boyfriend/girlfriend for up to two minutes?
2. What duration of a kiss would be considered prolonged/passionate?
3. Is slightly parting the lips while you kiss considered chaste, or must it be completely and absolutely closed-mouthed?

God bless!
 
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First of all, be aware that these forums draw a great diversity of people. People of different ages, from different cultures, from more traditional vs. less traditional Catholic backgrounds, those who have had long happy marriages and others who have barely or never dated at all, those who have their sex drives under control and those who are struggling. Any question like how much kissing is too much is going to get a wide variety of replies based on people’s personal experiences. An 80-year-old lady who was married for 50 years may have a different take on it than an 18-year-old traditionalist single guy who hasn’t dated much and is struggling with porn/ masturbation issues.

The bottom line is that if kissing is putting you in a “near occasion of sin” as in making you want to go farther than a kiss, it’s a bad idea and possibly a sin in itself. Not every kiss is going to have that type of effect on people, and people will also vary in how much a kiss gets them aroused. So it’s a very individual judgment.
Prudence2 said:
1.Is it wrong to share an affectionate, gentle kiss with your boyfriend/girlfriend for up to two minutes?
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Depends. Do you stop after the kiss or do you want to go further and start heavy petting and generally going around all the bases as they say in USA?
If you can stop after the kiss, and it furthermore doesn’t lead to sinful fantasies or masturbation when you’re apart, then it’s probably okay. If the kiss inspires you to commit further sins, it’s not okay.
Such kissing is probably not advised for younger people who aren’t fully in control of their urges yet, whereas it might be fine for an engaged couple in their mid-20s who know when to stop and are planning marriage.
  1. What duration of a kiss would be considered prolonged/passionate?
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Do you really need to ask this question? People don’t hold up a stopwatch behind their loved one’s head and after 30 seconds break away because 31 seconds is all of a sudden “passionate” and a sin.
  1. Is slightly parting the lips while you kiss considered chaste, or must it be completely and absolutely closed-mouthed?
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Please see above.

Kissing is not a technical issue. It’s about how it makes you feel.
 
Honestly I feel like putting a certain amount of time on something like kissing is not the best way to go about your problem. What you need to consider is your intent and whether it will put you in occasion of sin. If your kissing to show affection and puts neither of you in an occasion to sin then kiss for however long you want to and however you want to.
 
For the kiss to be chaste it must be less than 90 seconds.
 
Imagine that you have a young boyfriend/girlfriend relationship in highschool, another in your first year of college, and then you meet the person you will marry. You know it on the first date that you want to grow old with this person.

Now, this person also had one BF/GF in high school and one in their first year of college.

Those prior girlfriends? Kiss your now boyfriend the same way you want those other girlfriends to have kissed him.

Passionate kissing (open mouth, tongue) is designed to arouse the body for intercourse. It is foreplay. So, you decide how far down that road you want to go with a man who is not your husband.
 
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Prudence2 said:
Basically, leading up to this point, I had always thought that the only sinful kind of physical contact in pre-marital relationships is touching any of the intimate areas (such as the parts that would be covered by a modest bikini or swim shorts). But I’d always thought that any kind of kissing was fine, (though before marriage, I personally would prefer to keep french kissing pretty minimal and refrain from necking and/or kissing for more than two minutes.) However, a majority of the threads on this website implied that kissing your boyfriend/girlfriend on the lips for more than a few seconds is an objectively grave matter… some even said that passionate kissing between spouses is sinful outside of procreation. I considered a lot of this an extreme opposite from what I’ve thought previously, and I was wondering if I could have some clarification on the matter, especially because I want to share a chaste relationship with my boyfriend? (He’s 27 and I’m almost 23, by the way, and we’re both Catholic.)
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Don’t listen to the many conflicting opinions on these forums. Simply buy the book “The good news about sex and marriage” by Christopher West. You can get the E book for like $7 or $8 dollars. According to the book, kissing is allowed between a boyfriend and girlfriend. Prudence must be applied to duration of a kiss. Our boyfriend/girlfriend is not our spouse and we cannot treat them as if they are no matter how much we love them. Extremely passionate kissing is for married couples only. Even engaged couples get a bit more leeway according to the book. Read it!

Also this book has the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur
 
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If you’re constantly thinking about whether you’re sinning as you kiss, I doubt you’ll really get enough enjoyment from it for it to tempt anybody involved…
 
Just think of it like the other person is of the same sex.

😀

It actually stands to reason, too. If you’re Catholic and want to be chaste, and you’re not gay, then how would you kiss a member of the same sex? It would certainly be in a chaste manner - much like a handshake…

So there you have it… any more questions?
 
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Dupe thread:
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What is chaste kissing? Family Life
So yesterday I was browsing a ton of the forums on this website, and to be honest, I was shocked by most of what I read. Maybe my possible ignorance is due to the fact I just got into my first relationship since I had a two-week fling six years ago ( which was back in my lukewarm days when I went to a very progressive, secular, pro-LGBT high school), so I have no experience with Catholic dating up until now. Basically, leading up to this point, I had always thought that the only sinful kind of …
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The Church doesn’t define these sorts of day to day matters of prudential judgment. You already saw that there is a wide variety of opinions. Some here will condemn you as a harlot for so much as a peck on the lips…and as you noted, condemn passionate kissing even in marriage if not during the marital act. Others will see no issues with “making out” while dating as long as you don’t go farther. You and your boyfriend need to discern where that line is, and if concerned that you sinned, consult your confessor.
 
First, it is not “Traditionalist” to follow the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. It is what everyone should be doing. So what does the Magisterium say?

Pope Alexander VII condemned the following statement in Denzinger (this is part of the non-infallible Magisterium), that kissing is:

“merely a venial sin when performed for the sake of the carnal and sensible delight which arises from the kiss, even if the danger of further consent and pollution is excluded.”

This implies if you intend any positive carnal sensations from the kiss, it is not just venial, but mortally sinful (for unmarried couples).

Therefore, high lines are needed. Do not continue kissing after arousal. No passionate kissing for carnal pleasure is ever permissible. High lines, whether that be to stop kissing after a fixed time, or a fixed number of kisses, is highly prudent!!! Why? Because any mortal sin, if fully culpable could send you to Hell. Reach into yourself and tremble lest you commit a single mortal sin, because as St. Alphonsus says, there may be a number of sins beyond which God pardons no more!

Flee! Flee! Flee! From the sin of lustful kisses!
 
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Prudence2 said:
However, a majority of the threads on this website implied that kissing your boyfriend/girlfriend on the lips for more than a few seconds is an objectively grave matter… some even said that passionate kissing between spouses is sinful outside of procreation.
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Some people are insane, or have a deep-seated neurosis surrounding sex and intimacy that they slap a religious veneer on. The idea that making out between spouses is sinful is so certifiably bananas that you should probably just roll your eyes and walk away.
 
What I got from that is I shouldn’t kiss anyone unless it’ll make me barf and have 0 positive feelings. The point of kissing is to make someone feel positive emotions, for crying out loud!
 
Puritanism: the fear that someone somewhere is enjoying something.
 
If it leads to sin then it’s sin.

I’ve been known to have a “tumble in the hay”, so to speak, with various boyfriends of mine but I always ALWAYS made it abundantly clear that kissing was as far as we were going to go.

Plus, kissing is a way to show affection. If you’re using it to objectify him or objectify yourself, then that’s a problem!
 
Shame on you for duplicating!
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What are the boundaries for chaste kissing? Moral Theology
So yesterday I was browsing a ton of the forums on this website, and to be honest, I was shocked by most of what I read. Maybe my ignorance is due to the fact I just got into my first relationship since I had a two-week fling six years ago (which was back in my lukewarm days when I went to a very progressive, secular, pro-LGBT high school), so I have no experience with Catholic dating up until now. Basically, leading up to this point, I had always thought that the only sinful kind of physical…
Click to expand...
 
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