What are the Catholic and Orthodox Churches doing to get unity?

[XtusVictor]

[Moderator Note: The comment on what the churches are doing to promote unity was sufficiently off-topic to create this new thread from them. Please http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=206316”]see here for the original discussion on what individuals are doing to promote unity.]

Look to those in the line of SSPX in the and their counter thesis the Paulists in the west. Look to the HOCNA and their counter thesis OCAin the east.

These sentences make no sense to me. Help me. What are you saying?

Benedict gave a formidable olive branch to the East in proposing a more eastern concept of Purgatory.

Has the Patriarch of Cont. ever ever done anything remotely similar? Or is he and all the rest of the East just holding their ground? I have not seen a single action of the East indicating any seriousness about unity.

Surgei, your own rejection of Catholicism and you assertion that the East does not need the West is only further evidence of an incomplete sincerity.

 

[jimmy]

These sentences make no sense to me. Help me. What are you saying?

Benedict gave a formidable olive branch to the East in proposing a more eastern concept of Purgatory.

Has the Patriarch of Cont. ever ever done anything remotely similar? Or is he and all the rest of the East just holding their ground? I have not seen a single action of the East indicating any seriousness about unity.

Surgei, your own rejection of Catholicism and you assertion that the East does not need the West is only further evidence of an incomplete sincerity.

Your wish to subjugate the east is a sign of your incomplete sincerity.

 

[XtusVictor]

Your wish to subjugate the east is a sign of your incomplete sincerity.

There is no Christianity at all without submission. Even the pope has to submit to Christ and the teachings of the church. The pope does not have complete autocratic discretion. No one in the faith escapes submission–except the East which is so worried about itself and self absorbed. Believe me it is not about you.

Why is the East so bent on its autonomy? Even the pope is not autonomous. Autonomy is pride.

Besides, what did I or anyone else call for the subjugation of the East?

And still you have not one concrete example of an olive branch from the East. Nothing. None. Zilch. This is insincerity and hubris.

 

[jimmy]

There is no Christianity at all without submission. Even the pope has to submit to Christ and the teachings of the church. The pope does not have complete autocratic discretion. No one in the faith escapes submission–except the East which is so worried about itself and self absorbed. Believe me it is not about you.

Why is the East so bent on its autonomy? Even the pope is not autonomous. Autonomy is pride.

Why is the west so bent on its superiority? Why do you have this necessity to force the east to submit to you? You love to point how we are inferior to your tradition. We are proud or illogical or inferior in every other way.

Autonomy is pride? So is the superiority of the west.

 

[XtusVictor]

Why is the west so bent on its superiority? Why do you have this necessity to force the east to submit to you? You love to point how we are inferior to your tradition. We are proud or illogical or inferior in every other way.

Autonomy is pride? So is the superiority of the west.

And still you have not one concrete example of an olive branch from the East. Nothing. None. Zilch. This is insincerity and hubris.

 

[surgei]

And still you have not one concrete example of an olive branch from the East. Nothing. None. Zilch. This is insincerity and hubris.

Ok guys lets take this to another forum thread and keep this forum about what individuals are doing.
I would rather not have to weed through this discussion to post my answer to such a simple question.

 

[XtusVictor]

Ok guys lets take this to another forum thread and keep this forum about what individuals are doing.
I would rather not have to weed through this discussion to post my answer to such a simple question.

Hey, the question is what are you doing for unity?

All the world can see what the pope is doing for unity. He has proposed an Eastern concept of purgatory. That is huge.

What has the East done that is in any way comparable? What is it? What is that wonderful concrete gesture that will get things moving? How has the East made any attempts?

It is a fine question. It is the right question. And, it is the question of this thread.

So, let’s hear it.

 

[bobzills]

Um you do realize the Catholic Church allows Orthodox to receive communion with her, but the Orthodox Church refuses to communicate Catholics. The Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox sacraments including Baptism and Holy Orders, the Orthodox Church does not recognize Catholic sacraments. Maybe you should post your rant on an Orthodox forum?

However, Catholics don’t want to bend or slightly adjust any of their teachings to coincide with the Orthodox teachings.

 

[XtusVictor]

However, Catholics don’t want to bend or slightly adjust any of their teachings to coincide with the Orthodox teachings.

Not so. The pope just articulated an Eastern concept of Purgatory. It was a huge olive branch. The East has not made a similar move. Rome is working for unity. The East is balking.

 

[surgei]

Hey, the question is what are you doing for unity?

All the world can see what the pope is doing for unity. He has proposed an Eastern concept of purgatory. That is huge.

What has the East done that is in any way comparable? What is it? What is that wonderful concrete gesture that will get things moving? How has the East made any attempts?

It is a fine question. It is the right question. And, it is the question of this thread.

So, let’s hear it.

Many Orthodox jurisdictions have accepted the new calendar. That is to go against their whole tradition and some assert heretical.
Is it not on the pope to make the concesions if he alone is the symbol of unity.
by the way, look at the OP. I think I know what the OP ment when asking the question. The question is not what is your Bishop doing the question is what are you doing. All can see you are doing dialouge. That is good.

 

[XtusVictor]

Many Orthodox jurisdictions have accepted the new calendar. That is to go against their whole tradition and some assert heretical.
Is it not on the pope to make the concesions if he alone is the symbol of unity.
by the way, look at the OP. I think I know what the OP ment when asking the question. The question is not what is your Bishop doing the question is what are you doing. All can see you are doing dialouge. That is good.

I am glad that you think my participation is dialogue is good. I would go to the Orthodox church on occasion but I will not go where my priest is unwelcome. Again, the ball is in the court of the Orthodox here.

 

[bobzills]

Not so. The pope just articulated an Eastern concept of Purgatory. It was a huge olive branch. The East has not made a similar move. Rome is working for unity. The East is balking.

Unfortunately, the Orthodox do not believe in Purgatory, so to say that there is an Orthodox Purgatory would be incorrect.
And even if that one teaching were changed, there are at least twenty other teachings which Catholics don’t want to bend to coincide with the Orthodox teaching.

 

[XtusVictor]

Unfortunately, the Orthodox do not believe in Purgatory, so to say that there is an Orthodox Purgatory would be incorrect.
And even if that one teaching were changed, there are at least twenty other teachings which Catholics don’t want to bend to coincide with the Orthodox teaching.

Hmmm… go ahead, find any excuse to do nothing.

 

[surgei]

Unfortunately, the Orthodox do not believe in Purgatory, so to say that there is an Orthodox Purgatory would be incorrect.
And even if that one teaching were changed, there are at least twenty other teachings which Catholics don’t want to bend to coincide with the Orthodox teaching.

Their is what could be seen as purgatory in the eastern church by someone reading into the alegory. However the problem is that the west has gone ahead and defined something and done so in a way that if the pope is infallible makes the Orthodox perspective heretical. If the pope has capitulated to the Orthodox understanding then either Benedict is an antipope or Infalability is a hoax. If it is a hoax then the burden is on the Catholics to dislodge the mess they made and come home to Orthodoxy. If Benedict is not really the pope who is Michael? (Look up Pope Michael on google to get this refference.) The burden stil rests on the shoulders of the true pope to identify himself first and show the need for unity with him second.

 

[bobzills]

Their is what could be seen as purgatory in the eastern church by someone reading into the alegory. However the problem is that the west has gone ahead and defined something and done so in a way that if the pope is infallible makes the Orthodox perspective heretical. If the pope has capitulated to the Orthodox understanding then either Benedict is an antipope or Infalability is a hoax. If it is a hoax then the burden is on the Catholics to dislodge the mess they made and come home to Orthodoxy. If Benedict is not really the pope who is Michael? (Look up Pope Michael on google to get this refference.) The burden stil rests on the shoulders of the true pope to identify himself first and show the need for unity with him second.

Well, since Catholics insist on teaching something which contradicts Orthodox teaching, it is difficult to see how there could be unity. between the two Churches.

 

[surgei]

Well, since Catholics insist on teaching something which contradicts Orthodox teaching, it is difficult to see how there could be unity. between the two Churches.

Well I think unity could come if Catholics admited their flawed thinking. Intercomunion could bring about better relations and help bring their repentance.

 

[XtusVictor]

Their is what could be seen as purgatory in the eastern church by someone reading into the alegory. However the problem is that the west has gone ahead and defined something and done so in a way that if the pope is infallible makes the Orthodox perspective heretical. If the pope has capitulated to the Orthodox understanding then either Benedict is an antipope or Infalability is a hoax. If it is a hoax then the burden is on the Catholics to dislodge the mess they made and come home to Orthodoxy. If Benedict is not really the pope who is Michael? (Look up Pope Michael on google to get this refference.) The burden stil rests on the shoulders of the true pope to identify himself first and show the need for unity with him second.

Wow, you are way way off here. You need to do some reading. Purgatory is not defined. And it is certainly not infallible teaching. I am not sure you really understand infallibility at all. And the pope did just propose the Eastern view of purgatory. Come on read up before you comment.

 

[XtusVictor]

Their is what could be seen as purgatory in the eastern church by someone reading into the alegory. However the problem is that the west has gone ahead and defined something and done so in a way that if the pope is infallible makes the Orthodox perspective heretical. If the pope has capitulated to the Orthodox understanding then either Benedict is an antipope or Infalability is a hoax. If it is a hoax then the burden is on the Catholics to dislodge the mess they made and come home to Orthodoxy. If Benedict is not really the pope who is Michael? (Look up Pope Michael on google to get this refference.) The burden stil rests on the shoulders of the true pope to identify himself first and show the need for unity with him second.

Wow, you have sunk to Catholic baiting. Now you have confirmed what we knew of the Orthodox. And you have sunk the very purpose of your own thread.

I understand why. You could not come up with a single visible effort towards unity on the part of the Orthodox Church. Rather than admit this which would be honest, you have turned to Catholic baiting in order to escape the fact that your church is doing nothing to work toward unity and honor JOhn 17. You should be embarrassed.

 

[surgei]

Wow, you have sunk to Catholic baiting. Now you have confirmed what we knew of the Orthodox. And you have sunk the very purpose of your own thread.

I understand why. You could not come up with a single visible effort towards unity on the part of the Orthodox Church. Rather than admit this which would be honest, you have turned to Catholic baiting in order to escape the fact that your church is doing nothing to work toward unity and honor JOhn 17. You should be embarrassed.

That assessment that we do nothing is horrible. Personally I have lost much in Being Orthodox and in Seeking unity.

 

[bobzills]

And it is certainly not infallible teaching.

In Catholicism, is there a list somewhere of what is infallible teaching and what is not. Also, there are teachings in Catholicism which may not be infallible, but Catholics are still obligated to believe them.