What are the common, modern-day objections to the existence of God?

[warpspeedpetey]

I’ve been searching for evidence that would prove me wrong, so I could believe again. The problem is that none of the arguments ever seem very convincing.

i said similar things when i was an atheist. the question is, why do you need convincing arguments?

why not simply believe in the witness statements compiled into what we call the Bible? surely you believe the moonlanding happened, the magna carta existed, and the events of the American revolution occured? what the difference? you didnt witness any of these events yourself. a rational person should accept the general veracity of the Bible.

 

[AlbertBall]

i suppose you could categorize people like that. though you wouldnt get a number 2 to agree, it would be against there self interest.

I hope you are not trying to imply that atheists are only atheists because they want to place their self interests above others?

 

[AlbertBall]

you have the same collection of witness statements in the various books of the Bible that we have. it is sufficient for us, and we are just as astute as you.

do you believe in the moonlanding? if so why? you dont have any more evidence for that then you do for the Scripture. unless you personally saw it.

Evidence for man being on the moon v evidence for the existance of a god. Do you really want to go there?

 

[JValentinus]

i said similar things when i was an atheist. the question is, why do you need convincing arguments?

why not simply believe in the witness statements compiled into what we call the Bible? surely you believe the moonlanding happened, the magna carta existed, and the events of the American revolution occured? what the difference? you didnt witness any of these events yourself. a rational person should accept the general veracity of the Bible.

This isn’t a simple either/or question for me. I’m a professional anthropologist and so I’m well aware how human beings have constructed many thousands of different cosmologies and sacred texts. Many religions claim that they are the unique holders of truth, and all others are in error.

Not only did I not witness the events recorded in the Bible, but I also missed out on those of the Koran, or those in the Bhagavad Gita, the Book of Mormon, the Maya Popol Vuh, the Navajo Dine bahane, or the Buddhist sutras. Does that mean Christians should also accept as true the witness statements in those sacred texts simply because they are there?

Shouldn’t I require convincing arguments so I can learn which of these religions is true, and which are false? And if a religion can’t produce convincing arguments that support its claims, isn’t it very likely not to be true? Surely, I know that Mormonism is false because I know that American Indians were the real moundbuilders. I also reject as false the preposterous claims of Scientology because their beliefs are straight out of a terrible, cliched science fiction novel.

Have you ever really read the Bible? There is some good stuff in there, but most of it is really BAD. I’d never want to worship a God that would gleefully lay waste to whole cities. Nor one that would prompt a couple of she-bears to tear apart children because they dared to tease a prophet by calling him “baldie.”

 

[Major_Tom]

I’d never want to worship a God that would gleefully lay waste to whole cities. Nor one that would prompt a couple of she-bears to tear apart children because they dared to tease a prophet by calling him “baldie.”

I’m not hip to that one. Who’s that?

 

[JValentinus]

2 Kings 2:23-24 [NIV]

Elisha left Jericho to go to Bethel and on the way some boys came out of a town and made fun of him. “Get out of here, Baldy!” they shouted. Elisha turned around, glared at them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys to pieces.

 

[Luke_K]

Since you’re troubled by that passage, you should start a thread in the Sacred Scriptures forum to discuss it.

 

[JValentinus]

2 Kings 2:23-24 [NIV]

Elisha left Jericho to go to Bethel and on the way some boys came out of a town and made fun of him. “Get out of here, Baldy!” they shouted. Elisha turned around, glared at them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys to pieces.

 

[JValentinus]

Sadly, I don’t think there is much to discuss, as the meaning of the passage seems pretty self-evident: some kids tease God’s prophet and get their comeuppance. I’ve seen people try to defend such offensive stuff and it ain’t pretty.

But I guess you could add this sort of thing to the list of objections to the existence of God that started this thread. Either this stuff is simply made up or God is not really that nice of a guy.

 

[Luke_K]

Sadly, I don’t think there is much to discuss, as the meaning of the passage seems pretty self-evident: some kids tease God’s prophet and get their comeuppance. I’ve seen people try to defend such offensive stuff and it ain’t pretty.

But I guess you could add this sort of thing to the list of objections to the existence of God that started this thread. Either this stuff is simply made up or God is not really that nice of a guy.

You sound pretty close-minded. Seriously, start a thread in the appropriate forum to discuss this stuff. The purpose of this thread has been met.

 

[ManOnFire]

I see this argument repeated in these forums a number of times. I strongly disagree and think it’s a specious one. There have been times in my life when I’ve been filled with faith. It affected my thoughts and actions, increased my happiness, and spurred me to go to confession and to become very introspective about my behavior. It of course led me to attend church every Sunday and to be in tune with religious matters.

Now that I’ve again lost my faith, I don’t do very much differently in terms of morals. Maybe I’ve relaxed about a few ethical things around the edges, but not a very big change. I’m not resisting belief because I just want to keep on doing something selfish. In fact, I WANT to believe, as I noted in my first post, and I also stated my inability to do so is a cause of great pain. I think about it every day, and the fact that my wife is now very active in the church serves as a constant reminder. Frankly, it’s very depressing.

I’ve been searching for evidence that would prove me wrong, so I could believe again. The problem is that none of the arguments ever seem very convincing.

All of these debates end in a stalemate in terms of proof. No offense, but you seem to be demanding that life, God, or whomever provide you with a firm answer one way or the other. They won’t. You’ll never get past his until you stop placing yourself above God. There are no guarantees and you don’t get your money back. Are you younger? This seems to be a growing problem with parents who want to raise confident, independent kids. Lack of humility is one of the problems with parents who tell kids how great they are in order to increase their confidence and independence, spoiling them in the process. No giant ego wants to humble itself to God: it’s anti-intuitive after 18 years of training. Anyone who does what he wants does not humble himself to God. I apologize if this is harsh, but you certainly won’t get this Truth in the politically correct media. They want people to be independent of God. They ignore the Truth if it makes people “feel bad.” I hope this helps you to understand your problem and decide to move past it and come back. Of course, I may be wrong. You decide.

 

[JValentinus]

I’m actually very open minded. I’ll go ahead and post it, but I can predict some pretty ridiculous theodicy from people who believe that such odious passages are actually justifiable.

 

[JValentinus]

All of these debates end in a stalemate in terms of proof. No offense, but you seem to be demanding that life, God, or whomever provide you with a firm answer one way or the other. They won’t. You’ll never get past his until you stop placing yourself above God. There are no guarantees and you don’t get your money back. Are you younger? This seems to be a growing problem with parents who want to raise confident, independent kids. Lack of humility is one of the problems with parents who tell kids how great they are in order to increase their confidence and independence, spoiling them in the process. No giant ego wants to humble itself to God: it’s anti-intuitive after 18 years of training. Anyone who does what he wants does not humble himself to God. I apologize if this is harsh, but you certainly won’t get this Truth in the politically correct media. They want people to be independent of God. They ignore the Truth if it makes people “feel bad.” I hope this helps you to understand your problem and decide to move past it and come back. Of course, I may be wrong. You decide.

I’m in my 40s, so to some that might be younger. But no, I’m not of the generation that was told that everything we did was wonderful. In fact, I’ve often railed against that because my own kids, one of whom is full grown, were told that their whole lives by teachers and society in general and we’ve failed them because they don’t strive to succeed.

The thing that really gets me is that you can chalk up serious problems with belief to some sort of ego problem, rather than a sincere inability to accept some pretty implausible, and very extraordinary claims which my “God-given” reason tells me are VERY unlikely to be true. And I feel this way despite the grief it causes me. I guess this is too unusual of a problem to address, and I’m a very strange creature . . . many atheists are strident folks who call themselves Brights and such, and look down on all religion, which I think is repugnant. Oh well.

When I first lost my faith at age 13, I almost fell apart, as I began to realize that the pillars of my life were set in sand. And guess what, I was the meekest, mildest, most God-fearing boy you would have ever met. I had no desire to sin, no desire to “set myself above God” or any of that. It’s just that none of it made any sense. And still, I’ve read a lot trying to find the answers. C.S. Lewis, etc, etc, etc…

 

[warpspeedpetey]

I hope you are not trying to imply that atheists are only atheists because they want to place their self interests above others?

nope. implying that it is a matter desire not rationality.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Evidence for man being on the moon v evidence for the existance of a god. Do you really want to go there?

absolutely.

 

[JValentinus]

nope. implying that it is a matter desire not rationality.

If faith is a matter of desire, why do I not have it?

Are you saying that faith requires one to shut off your mind to conscience and reason? If so, I want nothing of it. I’d join Satan in hell before I pithed myself with the needle of blind and irrational faith!

What’s funny is that Christian apologists, and the Church, have consistently said that faith and reason are not incompatible. (Even though I have found that this is not possible for ME to swallow.) Has this argument changed in this age of dumbed-down messages? That religion is all about touchy-feely stuff?

 

[warpspeedpetey]

This isn’t a simple either/or question for me. I’m a professional anthropologist and so I’m well aware how human beings have constructed many thousands of different cosmologies and sacred texts. Many religions claim that they are the unique holders of truth, and all others are in error.

then surely you know why we make that claim? the mathematical precision of Messianic Prophecy. dozens of writeres, separated by centuries, language, distance, culture, and religion. then they are fulfilled in Christ. math doesnt lie.

Not only did I not witness the events recorded in the Bible, but I also missed out on those of the Koran, or those in the Bhagavad Gita, the Book of Mormon, the Maya Popol Vuh, the Navajo Dine bahane, or the Buddhist sutras. Does that mean Christians should also accept as true the witness statements in those sacred texts simply because they are there?

do any of these fit the mathematical model of Messianic Prophecy? shouldnt you know this?

Shouldn’t I require convincing arguments so I can learn which of these religions is true, and which are false?

absolutely

And if a religion can’t produce convincing arguments that support its claims, isn’t it very likely not to be true?

absolutely

Surely, I know that Mormonism is false because I know that American Indians were the real moundbuilders.

hey wait! didnt cortez or someone just pick up all the artifacts? i let mormons in the house. that was their explanation.

Have you ever really read the Bible?

of course

There is some good stuff in there, but most of it is really BAD. I’d never want to worship a God that would gleefully lay waste to whole cities.

why not?

Nor one that would prompt a couple of she-bears to tear apart children because they dared to tease a prophet by calling him "baldie.

again, why not?

 

[warpspeedpetey]

If faith is a matter of desire, why do I not have it?

faith is a theological virtue, you are conflating it with belief, almost everyone does.

obviously though, you cant have a theological virtue of trusting in G-d, if you doubt His existence.

Are you saying that faith requires one to shut off your mind to conscience and reason?

no, because we arent talking about faith. disbelief requires one to ignore all the evidence, that usually requires a motivation

If so, I want nothing of it. I’d join Satan in hell before I pithed myself with the needle of blind and irrational faith!

no body is asking you for blind or irrational belief.

What’s funny is that Christian apologists, and the Church, have consistently said that faith and reason are not incompatible. (Even though I have found that this is not possible for ME to swallow.) Has this argument changed in this age of dumbed-down messages? That religion is all about touchy-feely stuff?

i dont know what your asking. i dont do touchy feely. hard cold rationalism is my bag.

 

[AlbertBall]

nope. implying that it is a matter desire not rationality.

I don’t see anything irrational about withholding believe when there is zero verifiable evidence, but hey maybe that is just me.

 

[AlbertBall]

absolutely.

Ok, lets examine the two claims.

1. We used known existing technology to put man on the moon.
2. That technology was created by 100s of companies, all of which have it fully documented.
3. We have 100000 of eye witnesses that are still ALIVE TODAY that saw the event. Including those that WERE ON THE MOON.
4. We have VIDEO EVIDENCE of the event.
5. We have has multiple landings of man on the moon, ALL equally witnessed and documented.
6. We have brought pieces of the moon to earth.
7. We have all the equipment to return to the moon on earth.
8. There are satellites in space (which is proven every time you use your phone)
9. We have the space station in space (which i can SEE WITH MY OWN EYES)
   10.There are NO claims me about the moon landings which we cannot observe on a daily basis. (i.e burning bushes chatting, and dead people coming back to life).
10. Every single detail of the process is entirely documented, understood and natural.

Now thats not even scratching the surface.

Now please reproduce the above for your god and you got a believer, hell even just show me the video of jesus on the cross and i will be at church tomorrow.

That fact you can even claim they are the same tells the whole story, some of us require real evidence, others have a warped view about what evidence is.

LOL i mean this is pretty sound evidence in my opinion .

youtube.com/watch?v=RMINSD7MmT4
youtube.com/watch?v=_BOFs41BUCw
youtube.com/watch?v=4qWWgvzWHUs

Same for god please .