What are the differences in practices between the Maronite Catholic Church & the Melkite Greek Catholic Church?

[ComeHome2Rome]

Specifically:

1. At what age are Sacraments given?
2. From what do they Fast & when?
3. Is the Creed’s Filioque- included or exclude?
4. Whose Divine Liturgies celebrated?
5. They are both from Lebanon, right?

 

[Denho]

Specifically:

1. At what age are Sacraments given?
2. From what do they Fast & when?
3. Is the Creed’s Filioque- included or exclude?
4. Whose Divine Liturgies celebrated?
5. They are both from Lebanon, right?

1. Melkites and Maronites both, traditionally, offer all the mysteries of initiation to infants. Modern practice however, for the Maronites at least, is inauthentic.
2. Modern Maronite practice is virtually indistinguishable from modern Latin practice except that Maronites fast from Midnight to Noon. There is another thread on here that has the traditional Maronite fasting praxis - shamelessly stolen from Jimmy:

The practise of fast and abstinence was regulated by the Maronite synod of 1736

Fast: eating and drinking forbidden until midday

Abstinence: abstaining from eating all meat, oil, wine and animal products (eggs, milk, cheese etc.)

1. Great Lent from Quinquagesima to Easter abstinence every day; fasting every day except on Sundays and Saturdays (with the exception of Holy Saturday)

1. Apostles Lent abstinence four days 25th - 28th June

1. Assumption Lent abstinence eight days 7th - 14th August

1. Christmas Lent abstinence twelve days 13th - 24th December

1. Abstinence every Wednesday and Friday except: from Christmas to Epiphany, the Friday before Great Lent, from Easter to Pentecost, June 24th and 29th; August 6th and 15th

6 Forbidden food Like most oriental Christians, the Maronites kept the Mosaic ban on eating blood, suffocated animals and certain animals considered impure; and which Oriental Church Councils have many times renewed.

1. The Filioque is unfortunately still lodged firmly in our liturgical creed.
2. The Melkites and Maronites, in the beginning, both followed the West Syriac Antiochene Liturgy of St James. After a bit the Melkites adopted the Constantinopolitan Byzantine Liturgy. The Maronites continued to use a monastic recension of the West Syriac liturgy (with a few East Syriac influences) for hundreds of years. After the arrival of the crusaders there were waves of latinization to varying degrees. The post-concilliar “reforms” of the Maronite liturgy are virtually unrecognizable in outward form and internal structure to the true West Syriac liturgy except in the bare bones arrangement of the Anaphora - even then, most of them have been badly butchered, edited, shortened for ideological political correctness, etc. etc etc.
3. Well, yes and no. The Maronite Church and Melkite Church are heirs of the See of Antioch - in current day Turkey. There are influences in both Churches from Greater Syria, Mor Maroun was from Syria, it wasn’t until later did the Maronites migrate to Mount Lebanon. The Maronite See is currently based in Lebanon, and the Melkite Patriarch, in theory, is based out of Damascus, Syria though he has infrastructure in a number of places.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Thank you!

One last question:

Which Church: Maronite or Melkite is closest to the Greek Orthodox Church?

1. Melkites and Maronites both, traditionally, offer all the mysteries of initiation to infants. Modern practice however, for the Maronites at least, is inauthentic.
2. Modern Maronite practice is virtually indistinguishable from modern Latin practice except that Maronites fast from Midnight to Noon. There is another thread on here that has the traditional Maronite fasting praxis - shamelessly stolen from Jimmy:
3. The Filioque is unfortunately still lodged firmly in our liturgical creed.
4. The Melkites and Maronites, in the beginning, both followed the West Syriac Antiochene Liturgy of St James. After a bit the Melkites adopted the Constantinopolitan Byzantine Liturgy. The Maronites continued to use a monastic recension of the West Syriac liturgy (with a few East Syriac influences) for hundreds of years. After the arrival of the crusaders there were waves of latinization to varying degrees. The post-concilliar “reforms” of the Maronite liturgy are virtually unrecognizable in outward form and internal structure to the true West Syriac liturgy except in the bare bones arrangement of the Anaphora - even then, most of them have been badly butchered, edited, shortened for ideological political correctness, etc. etc etc.
5. Well, yes and no. The Maronite Church and Melkite Church are heirs of the See of Antioch - in current day Turkey. There are influences in both Churches from Greater Syria, Mor Maroun was from Syria, it wasn’t until later did the Maronites migrate to Mount Lebanon. The Maronite See is currently based in Lebanon, and the Melkite Patriarch, in theory, is based out of Damascus, Syria though he has infrastructure in a number of places.

 

[Denho]

Thank you!

One last question:

Which Church: Maronite or Melkite is closest to the Greek Orthodox Church?

Melkites.

 

[John_Cowan]

Indeed, the Maronites are a Catholic particular church without an obvious non-Catholic counterpart that was historically united with it. Note that they do not use the word “Catholic” in the official name of the church. Here’s a table of the 23 particular Catholic churches and their corresponding churches grouped by liturgy (C = Church, CC = Catholic Church, OC = Orthodox Church, EO = Eastern Orthodox, OO = Oriental or non-Chalcedonian Orthodox, so-called “Monophysite”, StTC = St. Thomas Christians):

Alexandrian liturgy:
Coptic CC : Coptic OC (OO)
Ethiopian CC : Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo C (OO), Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo C (OO)

Antiochian (West Syriac) liturgy:
Maronite C : (none)
Syriac CC : Syriac OC (EO)
Syro-Malankara CC (StTC) : Malankara Orthodox Syrian C (OO, StTC)

Armenian liturgy:
Armenian CC : Armenian Apostolic C (OO)

Chaldean (East Syriac) liturgy:
Chaldean CC : Assyrian C of the East (not EO or OO, so-called “Nestorian”)
Syro-Malabar CC (StTC) : Malankara Orthodox Syrian C (EO, StTC), Jacobite Syrian Christian C (EO, part of the Syriac OC)

Byzantine liturgy:
Albanian Byzantine CC : Albanian OC (EO)
Belarusian Greek CC : Belarusian OC (EO, part of Russian OC)
Bulgarian Greek CC : Bulgarian OC (EO patriarchate)
Byzantine C of Croatia, Serbia, and Montenegro : Serbian OC (EO patriarchate)
Greek Byzantine CC : C of Greece (EO)
Hungarian Greek CC : (none; essentially all EO Christians in Hungary are non-Hungarians)
Italo-Albanian (Greek) CC : (none)
Macedonian Byzantine CC : Macedonian OC (EO, but technically in schism from Constantinople)
Melkite Greek CC : Greek OC of Antioch (EO patriarchate)
Romanian C United with Rome : Romanian OC (EO patriarchate)
Russian Greek CC : Russian OC (EO patriarchate)
Ruthenian CC : (none, the CC mostly exists in the US)
Slovak Greek CC : OC of the Czech Lands and Slovakia (EO)
Ukrainian Greek CC : Ukrainian Autocephalous OC (EO), Ukrainian OC Moscow Patriarchate (EO, part of Russian OC), Ukrainian OC Kyiv Patriarchate (in schism from Constantinople)

Roman liturgy:
Latin C : (none, but there are various Western Orthodox individual churches, some in communion with Constantinople, some not)

The result of this mess is that there are five patriarchs of Antioch (Assyrian, EO patriarchate, Maronite, Melkite, Syrian CC) and four of Alexandria and All Africa (Coptic OC, Coptic CC, EO patriarchate, Melkite). There were formerly Latin Patriarchs too, but they have been abolished.

 

[malphono]

… The result of this mess is that there are five patriarchs of Antioch (Assyrian, EO patriarchate, Maronite, Melkite, Syrian CC) and four of Alexandria and All Africa (Coptic OC, Coptic CC, EO patriarchate, Melkite). There were formerly Latin Patriarchs too, but they have been abolished.

There is a Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch. Moran Mor Igatios Zakka I Iwas was patriarch until he fell asleep in the Lord on Friday. (May he rest with the Righteous and the Just.) Anyway, there is no such thing as an Assyrian Patriarchate of Antioch.

 

[WetCatechumen]

There is an Orthodox counterpart to the American Ruthenian church - two, in fact.

The Orthodox Church in America (OCA) was formerly called the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America. It was formed predominantly of Ruthenian Catholics who became Orthodox in the United States under the Russian bishops because of conflicts with the Roman bishops. It is autocephalous but not recognized by all other Orthodox churches as such.

The American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese in the USA is under the Ecumenical Patriarch. It is another splinter from the Ruthenians. The OCA has abandoned Ruthenian chant, Greek vestments, and a lot of other Ruthenian traditions on account of Russification, whereas the ACROD even retains Latinizations that the Ruthenian church has since abandoned. A Ruthenian at an ACROD parish would recognize the liturgical music and other small traditions. OCA parishes tend to be far more Russified, though.

 

[John_Cowan]

Malphono, WetCatechumen: Thanks for the corrections. I had not heard of the ACROD before. I agree that the OCA was historically Ruthenian as well as Russian, but they are far more Russian in practice nowadays.

 

[SyroMalankara]

CORRECTIONS of the earlier post:

Indeed, the Maronites are a Catholic particular church without an obvious non-Catholic counterpart that was historically united with it. Note that they do not use the word “Catholic” in the official name of the church. Here’s a table of the 23 particular Catholic churches and their corresponding churches grouped by liturgy (C = Church, CC = Catholic Church, OC = Orthodox Church, EO = Eastern Orthodox, OO = Oriental or non-Chalcedonian Orthodox, so-called “Monophysite”, StTC = St. Thomas Christians):

Alexandrian liturgy:
Coptic CC : Coptic OC (OO)
Ethiopian CC : Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo C (OO), Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo C (OO)

Antiochian (West Syriac) liturgy:
Maronite C : (none)
Syriac CC : Syriac OC -](EO)/-] (OO)
Syro-Malankara CC (StTC) : Malankara Orthodox Syrian C (OO, StTC); Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church (so-called Syrian Jacobite Church in India)

Armenian liturgy:
Armenian CC : Armenian Apostolic C (OO)

Chaldean (East Syriac) liturgy:
Chaldean CC : Assyrian C of the East (not EO or OO, so-called “Nestorian”)
Syro-Malabar CC (StTC) : -]Malankara Orthodox Syrian C (EO, StTC), Jacobite Syrian Christian C (EO, part of the Syriac OC)/-] Assyrian C of the East (Called Chaldean-Syrian Church in India, based in Trichur)

Byzantine liturgy:
Albanian Byzantine CC : Albanian OC (EO)
Belarusian Greek CC : Belarusian OC (EO, part of Russian OC)
Bulgarian Greek CC : Bulgarian OC (EO patriarchate)
Byzantine C of Croatia, Serbia, and Montenegro : Serbian OC (EO patriarchate)
Greek Byzantine CC : C of Greece (EO)
Hungarian Greek CC : (none; essentially all EO Christians in Hungary are non-Hungarians)
Italo-Albanian (Greek) CC : (none)
Macedonian Byzantine CC : Macedonian OC (EO, but technically in schism from Constantinople)
Melkite Greek CC : Greek OC of Antioch (EO patriarchate)
Romanian C United with Rome : Romanian OC (EO patriarchate)
Russian Greek CC : Russian OC (EO patriarchate)
Ruthenian CC : -](none, the CC mostly exists in the US)/-] ACROD, OCA (EO)
Slovak Greek CC : OC of the Czech Lands and Slovakia (EO)
Ukrainian Greek CC : Ukrainian Autocephalous OC (EO), Ukrainian OC Moscow Patriarchate (EO, part of Russian OC), Ukrainian OC Kyiv Patriarchate (in schism from Constantinople), UOAC (in schism from Constantinople)

Roman liturgy:
Latin C : (none, but there are various Western Orthodox individual churches, some in communion with Constantinople, some not)

The result of this mess is that there are five patriarchs of Antioch (-]Assyrian/-], EO patriarchate, OO Patriarchate, Maronite, Melkite, Syrian CC) and four of Alexandria and All Africa (Coptic OC, Coptic CC, EO patriarchate, Melkite). There were formerly Latin Patriarchs too, but they have been abolished.

 

[Aramis]

There is an Orthodox counterpart to the American Ruthenian church - two, in fact.

The Orthodox Church in America (OCA) was formerly called the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America. It was formed predominantly of Ruthenian Catholics who became Orthodox in the United States under the Russian bishops because of conflicts with the Roman bishops. It is autocephalous but not recognized by all other Orthodox churches as such.

The American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese in the USA is under the Ecumenical Patriarch. It is another splinter from the Ruthenians. The OCA has abandoned Ruthenian chant, Greek vestments, and a lot of other Ruthenian traditions on account of Russification, whereas the ACROD even retains Latinizations that the Ruthenian church has since abandoned. A Ruthenian at an ACROD parish would recognize the liturgical music and other small traditions. OCA parishes tend to be far more Russified, though.

The OCA was, and is still, Russian Orthodox in origin and liturgy, albeit with a few slight ruthenianisms. It was a functional diocese well before any Ruthenians joined. And, canonically, OCA is Russian church sui iruis when individuals translate in, at least, last I read. And the Russian GCC parishes use the OCA liturgies.

ACROD didn’t exist until the 20th C. It exists by schism from the Ruthenian Church in the early 20th C.

 

[Vico]

…
Hungarian Greek CC : (none; essentially all EO Christians in Hungary are non-Hungarians)
…
Ruthenian CC : -](none, the CC mostly exists in the US)/-] ACROD, OCA (EO)
Slovak Greek CC : OC of the Czech Lands and Slovakia (EO)
Ukrainian Greek CC : Ukrainian Autocephalous OC (EO), Ukrainian OC Moscow …

The Ruthenian CC map to several EO, having split jurisdictions over time:

Slovak CC and Ruthenenian CC Czech exarchate: OC of the Czech Lands and Slovakia (EO)
Hungarian CC: Serbian OC.
Ruthenian CC (Eparchy of Mukacevo, Ukraine): 1921-1945 Serbian OC, from 1945 ROC-MP, 1992 UOC-MP