What are the different types of catholic?

[meridith]

Good Afternoon,

What is a Maronite Catholic? Orthodox Catholic? Byaznatine Catholic? Any other catholic not Roman thats under the Pope? Area there any of these churches in the Kansas City Metro area?

Thank You

 

[Madaglan]

A Maronite Catholic belongs to the Maronite Catholic Church, one of the 23 or so sui iurus Churches in communion with the bishop of Rome. The Maronite Catholic Church has its roots in Lebanon, but Maronites can be found in Europe, the US and elsewhere. Maronites claim that they never broke communion with Rome. Their Liturgy, the Holy Qurbono, is quite interesting.

“Orthodox Catholic” can mean several things. Orthodox Christians (e.g. the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox) sometimes use this as a description of themselves. Some Eastern Catholics also might use it to suggest that they are “(Fully) Orthodox…in communion with Rome (Catholic)”–although I haven’t seen this usage as much. Sometimes I see Traditional and Conservative Catholics use this phrase, to suggest that they are “orthodox” Catholics, i.e. not liberal/disobedient/heresy-promoting Catholics. It really is used by many people to basically mean that they are the real McCoy.

Byzantine Catholics are those Eastern Catholics whose liturgical rites, theology, spirituality, etc. have roots in the Byzantine Empire–and in particular, the imperial capital of Constantinople. Ukrainian, Melkite and Ruthenian Catholics are just a few examples of Byzantine Catholics.

There are many Eastern and Oriental Catholics Churches that are in communion with Rome but which are not “Roman” Catholic.

A good site to start with:
byzcath.org

This site will help you find Eastern Catholic parishes in the US:
byzcath.org/index.php?option=com_sobi2&catid=24&Itemid=55
It looks like Kansas is unfortunately slim of Eastern Catholic churches.

 

[mlouise007]

Good Afternoon,

What is a Maronite Catholic? Orthodox Catholic? Byaznatine Catholic? Any other catholic not Roman thats under the Pope? Area there any of these churches in the Kansas City Metro area?

Thank You

Christ is risen!

Looks like you’re talking about the Eparchy of Parma.
parma.org/Parishes_map.asp
Lots of nice things on their web site.

In addition to looking at other similar questions posted here in the Eastern Catholicism section of the forums, I suggest you can find helpful information at Eastern Christian Media. easternchristianmedia.com/

If you look in the archives of Light of the East Radio you can find a number or sessions that would give you helpful information to a number of questions you have asked. Each week has a synopses of what was talked about. byzantinecatholic.com/feed.xml

Madaglan has already mentioned byzcath.org which is also a great site.

Enjoy!

 

[mark_a]

Good Afternoon,

Byaznatine Catholic? Any other catholic not Roman thats under the Pope?

I found this article helpful:

ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm

Some folks that Catholics know as (capital “O”) Orthodox refer to themselves a Orthodox Catholic.

Also, be weary of some other churches with the word “Catholic” in the name, such as Polish National Catholics.

It can be confusing, but the smell test is whether or not they submit to the authority of the Bishop of Rome, currently Pope Benedict XVI.

 

[Aramis]

Good Afternoon,

What is a Maronite Catholic? Orthodox Catholic? Byaznatine Catholic? Any other catholic not Roman thats under the Pope? Area there any of these churches in the Kansas City Metro area?

Thank You

There are a large number of groups who use the label “Catholic”… a certain sub-group of Orthodox do so (almost as provocateurs) who are not in union with Rome.

The so-called “Independent Catholic” movement, including at least 3 rites amongst them, use Catholic Liturgies but are not in union with the Pope, and often, not even with other IC groups.

The Eastern Orthodox informally use the term Orthodox Catholic, but far more often use an enthic identifier, such as Romanian Orthodox. The Eastern Orthodox Communion considers themselves the remnant of the Catholic Church, and the Romans to be either heretics and/or schismatics.

The Old Catholic movement is a schismatic synod; their genesis looks a lot like the SSPX’s… disagreement with a council of the church, followed by excommunication and removal thereof, followed by formal schism as they turned away from rome in disagreement.

The Uniates or Unia (tho those terms are disliked by many) are those Orthodox churches that came into union with Rome. The Orthodox generally consider them non-Orthodox, and they are fully Catholic, in unity with Rome. 22 named churches, covering 6 rites. Amongst them, the Byzantine Rite (Including the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh, the Ukrainian Catholic Church,

FSSJ, SSPX: not fully in union, nor truly separated yet. They accept the pope as the pope, but disobey the pope anyway. Both want to return to the liturgy as of 1960 or so. The SSPX split from the Romans, and the FSSJ from the Ukrainians.

All the above claim to be catholic. Only the Unia and Rome are truly Catholic in the sense you ask.

The Melkites are Byzantine Rite, in union
The Maronites are Syrian Rite, and in Union
The Chaldeans are Chaldean Rite (or Syrian Rite, depending on which resource one looks in), and in union
Byzantine Catholic is used by both the Metropolitan Church of Pittsburg (in union), and the Byzantine Catholic Church, Inc., an independent catholic movement church (not in union).

 

[Hesychios]

There are a large number of groups who use the label “Catholic”… a certain sub-group of Orthodox do so (almost as provocateurs) …

:imsorry:

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Michael

Aramis:

There are a large number of groups who use the label “Catholic”… a certain sub-group of Orthodox do so (almost as provocateurs) …

:imsorry:

I believe brother Aramis is referring only to those particular Orthodox who use the term “Orthodox Catholic” ONLY in response to Eastern and Oriental Catholics who refer to themselves as “Orthodox in communion with Rome.” I know you have been here long enough to realize that way back when there was a debate about the use of the designations, several EO in this Forum changed their “religion” designation from merely “Orthodox” or “Eastern Orthodox” to “Catholic Orthodox” or changed it to add the word “Catholic” to their designation. The fact of the matter is, it is not common for Orthodox in everyday language to refer to themselves as “Catholic Orthodox” or “Orthodox Catholic,” but merely as “Orthodox.”

Personally, I’ve ALWAYS referred to myself as an “Orthodox in communion with Rome.” I think it is more common among those who have translated from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, who keep and retain their particular spiritualities and theologies while being in the Catholic communion, or among those who have a heightened sense of their unique Eastern or Oriental roots, though being cradle Catholics…

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by Aramis:

There are a large number of groups who use the label “Catholic”… a certain sub-group of Orthodox do so (almost as provocateurs) who are not in union with Rome.

The Orthodox recite the Creed and identify themselves as members of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Some Orthodox may use the term to incite, but I see the usage as far less provocative.

Just as Eastern and Oriental Catholics may use “Orthodox in communion with Rome,” and in so doing reflect their belief that the teachings of present Rome and of Orthodoxy are compatible (even as it may incite Orthodox Christians who think otherwise), so too some Orthodox affix Catholic to show that one need not be in communion with Rome to be Catholic. Orthodox certainly don’t consider themselves a non-Catholic religion.

The Uniates or Unia (tho those terms are disliked by many) are those Orthodox churches that came into union with Rome. The Orthodox generally consider them non-Orthodox, and they are fully Catholic, in unity with Rome. 22 named churches, covering 6 rites. Amongst them, the Byzantine Rite (Including the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh, the Ukrainian Catholic Church,

Interestingly, many Ukrainian Catholics disdain being associated with the Orthodox, no doubt influenced by a history of persecution by the Russians. .

 

[Cluny]

There was a time in the USA when “Orthodox Catholic” was a standard label used by Orthodox.

Sometimes, it’s been “Eastern Orthodox”–but that cuts out the Western Rite Orthodox.

Sometimes, it’s been “Orthodox Christian”.

Most converts now prefer “Orthodox” with no ethnic label.

 

[Diak]

What is a Maronite Catholic? Orthodox Catholic? Byaznatine Catholic? Any other catholic not Roman thats under the Pope? Area there any of these churches in the Kansas City Metro area?

Christ is Risen! Dear Meredith, there are many Catholics who are not Roman Catholics. There are 20+ particular Catholic Churches that are in full communion with the Catholic Church, the largest being my own particular Church, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.

There is an excellent publication written by a now retired Ukrainian Catholic bishop for the Knights of Columbus that I can send you as a pdf. You can also PM me and I can discuss more information. I am in the Topeka area (we have a Ukrainian Greek Catholic apostolate there) and I will actually be speaking later on this summer at a Johnson County Catholic parish (Latin Rite) about the Eastern Catholic Churches. There are a number of websites about Eastern Catholic Churches, such as eparchial sites, parish sites, etc. and another form called “Byzcath” largely populated by Eastern Catholics. Here is an example of an excellent site from one of our Ukrainian Greek Catholic parishes with much informational material: saintelias.com/ca/index.php

God bless.
Fr. Deacon Randolph L. Brown

 

[PJM]

=meridith;5159533]Good Afternoon,

What is a Maronite Catholic? Orthodox Catholic? Byaznatine Catholic? Any other catholic not Roman thats under the Pope? Area there any of these churches in the Kansas City Metro area?

Thank You

If you are able to attend a RCC you are STRONGLY advised to do so. ONLY in the RCC does one find the “Fullness of TRUTH!”

Here is a list of Catholic Chruches
This is from the EASTERN CATHOLIC

Here is a listing that includes EACH of the twenty-three Catholic Churches in union with the Pope. Do not confuse “churches” with “rites”. A rite is a series of traditions, that includes different customs and liturgies. Several different churches may use the exact same rite. A Church has its own rules and separate line of authority to the Pope. It may also have a figure in charge, like a Metropolitan or a Patriarch (like an Archbishop), since these churches are generally very small and work very hard to preserve their unique traditions. The major rites are the Latin, Alexandrian, Antiochian, Armenian, Chaldean, and Byzantine.

The Western (Latin) Catholic Church

Latin liturgical tradition

1. Ordinary Form
2. Extraordinary Form
3. Ambrosian Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Milan)
4. Mozarabic Rite (Only permitted in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain and a few surrounding churches of the diocese)
5. Bragan Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Braga, Portugal)
6. Anglican-Use Mass (This form is permitted in the extremely rare circumstance in which an Anglican priest converts to Catholicism and brings his entire parish with him. In that event, a parish may continue to use the Anglican liturgy, with corrections to make it conform with Catholic teachings This is currently meant as a transitional liturgy, and upon the death of the pastor, the church reverts to the Ordinary Form.)

Rites of Religious Orders (These are not technically rites per se, but rather small variants of the Roman liturgy. The Ambrosian, Mozarabic, and Bragan Rites fall into this category too.):

1. Dominican Rite
2. Carthusian Rite
3. Carmelite Rite
4. Cisternian Rite

The Eastern Catholic Churches

1. Alexandrian liturgical tradition
2. Coptic Catholic Church (patriarchate): Egypt (1741)
3. Ethiopian Catholic Church (metropolia): Ethiopia, Eritrea (1846)
4. Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
5. Maronite Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Argentina, Brazil, United States, Australia, Canada, Mexico (union re-affirmed 1182)
6. Syriac Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United States and Canada, Venezuela (1781)
7. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States (1930)
8. Armenian liturgical tradition:
9. Armenian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Palestine, Ukraine, France, Greece, Latin America, Argentina, Romania, United States, Canada, Eastern Europe (1742)
10. Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
11. Chaldean Catholic Church (patriarchate): Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, United States (1692)
12. Syro-Malabar Church (major archiepiscopate): India, Middle East, Europe and America.
13. Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
14. Albanian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic administration): Albania (1628)
15. Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (no established hierarchy at present): Belarus (1596)
16. Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic exarchate): Bulgaria (1861)
17. Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro (1611)
18. Greek Byzantine Catholic Church (two apostolic exarchates): Greece, Turkey (1829)
19. Hungarian Greek Catholic Church (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Hungary (1646)
20. Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (two eparchies and a territorial abbacy): Italy (Never separated)
21. Macedonian Greek Catholic Church (an apostolic exarchate): Republic of Macedonia (1918)
22. Melkite Greek Catholic Church (patriarchate): Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Jerusalem, Brazil, United States, Canada, Mexico, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Kuwait, Australia, Venezuela, Argentina (1726)
23. Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic (major archiepiscopate): Romania, United States (1697)
24. Russian Catholic Church: (two apostolic exarchates, at present with no published hierarchs): Russia, China (1905); currently about 20 parishes and communities scattered around the world, including five in Russia itself, answering to bishops of other jurisdictions
25. Ruthenian Catholic Church (a sui juris metropolia, an eparchy, and an apostolic exarchate): United States, Ukraine, Czech Republic (1646)
26. Slovak Greek Catholic Church (metropolia): Slovak Republic, Canada (1646)
27. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595

 

[Cluny]

If you are able to attend a RCC you are STRONGLY advised to do so. ONLY in the RCC does one find the “Fullness of TRUTH!”

Are you implying that only in ROMAN Catholic Churches, as opposed to Eastern Catholic Churches, one finds the fullness of truth?

 

[malphono]

Are you implying that only in ROMAN Catholic Churches, as opposed to Eastern Catholic Churches, one finds the fullness of truth?

I don’t read PJMs post that way at all. What follows the quoted statement is a listing of the various E/O CCs.

 

[Aramis]

Are you implying that only in ROMAN Catholic Churches, as opposed to Eastern Catholic Churches, one finds the fullness of truth?

He mis-uses the term RCC to mean the Holy Catholic Church, also known as the Catholic Communion (especially in conversation talking about the Eastern Orthodox Communion and the Oriental Orthodox Communion; all three are used almost exclusively in comparing the three groups). The Catholic Church, by this understanding, is the Catholic Churches united to the Pope.

Properly, the Roman Catholic Church is one of the 23 churches in communion with the Pope. It’s also the largest, and the one most prone to be noticed by non-Catholics.

 

[PJM]

=Cluny;5184988]Are you implying that only in ROMAN Catholic Churches, as opposed to Eastern Catholic Churches, one finds the fullness of truth?

Actually that is precisely what I am saying.

Here’s why.

First The RCC recogonizes the other braches of the “Catholic Church” as "current, valid and licit. Therefore so do I.

But one cannot avoid the discussion of this topic without asking “WWJD?” What would Jesus Himself do?

The answer is found in the very speific manner of God’s own Words.

Thet are NOT Boastful , not or they intended to antagonize. If one is going to teach, then one must do it in conformity to THE Church, the RCC.

Mt. 16:17"And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 **I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **

Having shared this, I also confess to being in awe of the Pious Practice of our Faith in the Eastern Churches. I do not make light of you’re practice or the validity of you’re Sacraments.

Part of the “Entire truth” is, becasue God say’s it is, that Peter in “The Rock.” Amen!

And yes, only in the RCC can and does one find the “fullness” of Catholic Truth! Amen!

Love and prayer’s,

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother PJM,

You base your understanding on the idea that one cannot distinguish between the Pope, the Patriarch of the Latins, and the bishop of Rome.

The Pope does NOT BELONG to the Latin communion ALONE. He is my Pope too, as well as the Pope of every Catholic, regardless of Rite or Tradition, He is the pastor of the ENTIRE Catholic Church. Popes have made decisions in favor of the Eastern and Oriental Churches in direct contradiction to the desires of Latin Church hierarchs, and has made decisions in the other direction. But I don’t think he has made them in preference of one Church over another, but rather out of a pastoral concern in response to the particular circumstances.

I don’t think you can simply claim the Pope as an EXCLUSIVE member of the Latin Church, whereby you can legitimately claim that the Latin portion of the Church is the standard for the rest.

On another level, you should also know that the Latin Church has very often in history BORROWED from the Eastern and Oriental Traditions. Two most obvious examples are monasticism, and the teaching of the IC.

Blessings

 

[Cluny]

Actually that is precisely what I am saying.

Here’s why.

First The RCC recogonizes the other braches of the “Catholic Church” as "current, valid and licit. Therefore so do I.

But one cannot avoid the discussion of this topic without asking “WWJD?” What would Jesus Himself do?

The answer is found in the very speific manner of God’s own Words.

Thet are NOT Boastful , not or they intended to antagonize. If one is going to teach, then one must do it in conformity to THE Church, the RCC.

Mt. 16:17"And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 **I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **

Having shared this, I also confess to being in awe of the Pious Practice of our Faith in the Eastern Churches. I do not make light of you’re practice or the validity of you’re Sacraments.

Part of the “Entire truth” is, becasue God say’s it is, that Peter in “The Rock.” Amen!

And yes, only in the RCC can and does one find the “fullness” of Catholic Truth! Amen!

Love and prayer’s,

The Roman Church is not the fullness of the Church, or even the standard.

Deal.

 

[PJM]

=mardukm;5187154]Dear brother PJM,

You base your understanding on the idea that one cannot distinguish between the Pope, the Patriarch of the Latins, and the bishop of Rome.

The Pope does NOT BELONG to the Latin communion ALONE. He is my Pope too, as well as the Pope of every Catholic, regardless of Rite or Tradition, He is the pastor of the ENTIRE Catholic Church. Popes have made decisions in favor of the Eastern and Oriental Churches in direct contradiction to the desires of Latin Church hierarchs, and has made decisions in the other direction. But I don’t think he has made them in preference of one Church over another, but rather out of a pastoral concern in response to the particular circumstances.

I don’t think you can simply claim the Pope as an EXCLUSIVE member of the Latin Church, whereby you can legitimately claim that the Latin portion of the Church is the standard for the rest.

On another level, you should also know that the Latin Church has very often in history BORROWED from the Eastern and Oriental Traditions. Two most obvious examples are monasticism, and the teaching of the IC.

Blessings

My dear brother in Christ,

Another beautiful and thoughtful reply. Again I offer my sincere thank’s!

While what you expressed may be true {i’m personally unsure if all other Church’s accept the Pope?} It is nevertheless, at least an “incomplete Communion” of fraternal love and obedience.

John Chapter 15 expresses that a “condition od love” is and must be Obedience. While John is speaking of “The Commandments” specifically, one need also be mindful of Jn. 15:16, Lk.10:16, 2 Cor.13:8, 2Tim. 1:13, and Jn.12:34.

If one is fully Obedient, one accepts ALL OFFICIAL teaching’s of the Pope, the very Vicar of Christ.

Again, brother, I mean no disrespect. But for me only the entire TRUTH will do.

Love and prayer’s

 

[pickguard1]

While what you expressed may be true {i’m personally unsure if all other Church’s accept the Pope?} It is nevertheless, at least an “incomplete Communion” of fraternal love and obedience.

If one is fully Obedient, one accepts ALL OFFICIAL teaching’s of the Pope, the very Vicar of Christ.

Again, brother, I mean no disrespect. But for me only the entire TRUTH will do.

Love and prayer’s

Dear PJM,
What part of the Truth do you feel is missing in these other rites?
All these other rites are as Catholic as any member of the Latin rite!
You seem to think that in order to be a member of the Catholic Church you have to live in the diocese of Rome. This is a misunderstanding of the authority of Peter. He has the keys to bind and loose. So, if any rite on earth were not pleasing to God, Peter would have the authority to suppress its practice. The fact that so many of these rites are as ancient, if not older, than the Latin Rite itself, should lead you to acknowledge that the fullness of Truth is not in the “Roman” Catholic Church *per se *, but in the “Catholic” Church as a whole, of which Rome is the see of the Pope, who is the head of the “Catholic” Church on earth, and more specifically, the liturgical leader of all members of the “Roman” rite. The Creed isn’t “One, Holy, Roman Catholic, and Apostolic.” The Roman Catholic Church does indeed possess the fullness of truth, but not because it is Roman - only because it is Catholic.

 

[Diak]

All these other rites are as Catholic as any member of the Latin rite!
You seem to think that in order to be a member of the Catholic Church you have to live in the diocese of Rome

Which is against the teaching of Rome and her Magesterium as well. As Bishop Sheen of blessed memory used to say, the Church is not fully “Catholic” without the Eastern Churches.