What are the postures and hand gestures for mass?

[lancebermudez]

I have read the girm (general instruction of the roman missal) but i still have questions.

when Father say something like “The Lord be with you” are the people allowed to extend their arms and when they say “and also with you”?

when Father says “lift up your hearts” can the people raise up their hand and arms to heaven when their say “we lift them up to the Lord”?

Beating their breast and bowing their head when Father raise the Body and then agine when He raise the Blood? Even if they are born after vactian 2? I know that some people can do things at mass that the girm say i should not do becuse i was born after vactian 2. Like the beating of the breast at the “Lord I’m not worthy to …”

[edited]

 

[Thunderbird]

mmmmm aren’t there threads on these things already?

Strictly speaking, the only person that’s supposed to extend his hands at the Lord Be With You is the Priest. Some argue that laypeople returning the gesture diminishes the symbolism of the Priest. For whatever the reason, people do it anyway. It’s one of those things that just kinda started.

Same for the hand lifting on the Lift Up Your Hearts. Nothing in the rubrics say we have to or should, but it’s done anyway in many parishes.

As for the bowing/thumping chest when the Priest raises the Body and Blood… I’ve never heard of it, to be honest, but I personally bow when they are each held up.

[edited]

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I have read the girm (general instruction of the roman missal) but i still have questions.

when Father say something like “The Lord be with you” are the people allowed to extend their arms and when they say “and also with you”?

when Father says “lift up your hearts” can the people raise up their hand and arms to heaven when their say “we lift them up to the Lord”?

Beating their breast and bowing their head when Father raise the Body and then agine when He raise the Blood? Even if they are born after vactian 2? I know that some people can do things at mass that the girm say i should not do becuse i was born after vactian 2. Like the beating of the breast at the “Lord I’m not worthy to …”

Holding hands for the Our Father?

There’s a difference between ALLOWED to do and DIRECTED to do. There aren’t many gestures that the assembly is directed to do. Here are the ones that I found with a quick look (all citations are to the GIRM):

1. Once the Entrance chant is concluded, the priest and faithful, all standing, make the Sign of the Cross.
2. Then he says, Lectio sancti Evangelii (A reading from the holy gospel), making the sign of the cross with his thumb on the book and on his forehead, mouth, and breast, which everyone else does as well.
3. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. above, no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, **all genuflect.

**154. At the same time, in accord with the decisions of the Conference of Bishops, **all offer one another a sign that expresses peace, **communion, and charity. While the sign of peace is being given, one may say, Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum (The peace of the Lord be with you always), to which the response is Amen.

1. When receiving Holy Communion, **the communicant bows his or her head **before the Sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the Body of the Lord from the minister.

As you can see, the assembly is not directed to make very many gestures.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi,

There are not many instructions for the congregation at Mass. Although we should comply with the instructions given, this does not indicate that we cannot continue with our prayerful habits, as long as they do not interfere with others.

from The Usccb

Gestures too involve our bodies in prayer. The most familiar of these is the Sign of the Cross with which we begin Mass and with which, in the form of a blessing, the Mass concludes. Because it was by his death on the cross that Christ redeemed humankind, we trace the sign of the cross on our foreheads, lips and hearts at the beginning of the Gospel. Fr. Romano Guardini, a scholar and professor of liturgy wrote of this gesture:

When we cross ourselves, let it be with a real sign of the cross. Instead of a small, cramped gesture that gives no notion of its meaning, let us make a large, unhurried sign, from forehead to breast, from shoulder to shoulder, consciously feeling how it includes the whole of us, our thoughts, our attitudes, our body and soul, every part of us all at once, how it consecrates and sanctifies us … (Romano Guardini, Sacred Signs, 1927)

**But there are other gestures that intensify our prayer at Mass. During the Confiteor the action of striking our breasts at the words through my own fault can strengthen my awareness that my sin is my fault. In the Creed we are invited to bow at the words which commemorate the Incarnation: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. **This gesture signifies our profound respect and gratitude to Christ who, though God, did not hesitate to come among us as a human being, sharing our human condition in order to save us from sin and restore us to friendship with God. This gratitude is expressed with even greater solemnity on the Feast of the Annunciation of the Lord and on Christmas when we genuflect at these words.

Yes, there is nothing against our personal gestures[edited].

Pray as you are called.

Lux

 

[bpbasilphx]

when Father says “lift up your hearts” can the people raise up their hand and arms to heaven when their say “we lift them up to the Lord”?

The Melkites do it.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi,

There is nothing in the instructions against it, and it is a prayerful gusture, but if only one person is doing it, it does seem to go against the general instruction for unity of posture.

GIRM

Movements and Posture

1. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.52 Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.
   A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

Lux

 

[djrakowski]

when Father says “lift up your hearts” can the people raise up their hand and arms to heaven when their say “we lift them up to the Lord”?

The Melkites do it.

Perhaps some do… but not at the Melkite parish I’ve attended.

 

[otjm]

There are two general philosophies of law - called the northern, or germanic, and the mediterranian, or southern.

The northern takes the position that what is not permitted is prohibited.

The southern takes the postion that what is not prohibited is permitted.

[Edited]

 

[lancebermudez]

From my bishops office

Quotes are from Paul Turner’s “Let Us Pray – A Guide to the Rubrics of Sunday Mass.” He is the foremost American liturgist right now.

Re: gestures in response to “The Lord be with you.” “The people’s response does not call for any kind of gesture … but some people naturally imitate the presider’s gesture, as they make eye contact with him and speak to him for the first time in the liturgy.”(pg. 47)

Re: response to “Lift up your hearts.” I would say that where the rubrics do not specifically prohibit a gesture, it is allowed.

Re: beating the breast at consecration. " Some people strike their breast and say, “My Lord and my God,” as Thomas said when Jesus appeared to him after the resurrection (John 20:28). These devotional practices have never been part of the rubrics of the Mass. They are not forbidden; they are not required; they manifest popular piety. Consequently, it would not be appropriate for people to say this text aloud or for the deacon visibly to strike his breast as if the liturgy expected everyone to imitate him." (pgs. 116-117)

[Edited]

 

[thistle]

There are two general philosophies of law - called the northern, or germanic, and the mediterranian, or southern.

The northern takes the position that what is not permitted is prohibited.

The southern takes the postion that what is not prohibited is permitted.

[Edited]

That doesn’t make sense. Obviously what is not permitted is prohibited. They both mean the same thing.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

That doesn’t make sense. Obviously what is not permitted is prohibited. They both mean the same thing.

Not really.

Take the example of lifting your hands when saying “and also with you.”

The GIRM doesn’t say anything one way or the other about whether this should be done.

One side would say that since permission has not been given for this gesture, it shouldn’t be done.

The other side would say that since it has not be prohibited, it may be done.

Not permitted doesn’t necessarily translate as prohibited…or maybe it does…it all depends on which philosophy you adopt.

 

[Usagi]

Not permitted doesn’t necessarily translate as prohibited…or maybe it does…it all depends on which philosophy you adopt.

The phrase “not permitted” can be read to mean “prohibited,” though. If a child is “not permitted” to watch a certain TV show, then he or she is prohibited from watching it.

Perhaps you could clarify by changing the phrasing to “not expressly permitted.” That better gets across the notion that you are talking about cases where nothing is said one way or another.

You could even go so far as to rephrase that position as “Whatever is not required is prohibited,” meaning that an act is either commanded in the rubrics, or else (by its omission) it is implicitly forbidden.

Usagi

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

You could even go so far as to rephrase that position as “Whatever is not required is prohibited,” meaning that an act is either commanded in the rubrics, or else (by its omission) it is implicitly forbidden.

But that’s exactly the question that was raised initially. If it is not expressly permitted, does that mean it’s forbidden? Or conversely, if it’s not expressly forbidden does that mean it’s permitted?

And I’m not making an argument either way. I was simply trying to clarify OJTM’s message in response to Thistle’s question.