What are the shared beliefs necessary for ALL Protestants?

[meltzerboy]

Historically, Protestants are limited to Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists and Congregationalists. All of them, originally, subscribed to what in the 1920’s was called “The Fundamentals.”

(Constantine, I suggest you do your homework before you spout off. )

Thanks for the link, 1sicht. Protestantism must therefore be defined in historical context?

 

[meltzerboy]

If you can get them to agree on what beliefs they have in common it would be almost impossible to get them to then agree which particular beliefs are “necessary” to be a Christian.

They’ll argue over inerrancy and literalism and what exactly those mean. They’ll argue over what and how to believe various things about Christ (for example do you have to acknowledge Christ’s Lordship or is believing he died for your sin enough). Then that brings you to how you were forgiven your sins and how you then confess subsequent sins or even if you have to confess them.

Yes, on the surface many of them may share similar beliefs in many things but when you get down into the nitty gritty and the meaning of words that sense of unity or common belief disappears quickly.

ChadS

Thanks, ChadS. In your view, there is NO unity or common belief then? But all or most of these groups are still regarded as Protestants from the Catholic perspective?

 

[meltzerboy]

The shared beliefs necessary for ALL Protestants (and Catholics alike) are:

Thanks, Sunshine. So the commonality is the Nicene Creed then?

 

[meltzerboy]

A few random thoughts:

First, to be Protestant is to be Christian and this implies that one believes in the Holy Trinity. Any group that denies the Trinity, even if that group came out of some Protestant tradition, cannot, as I understand it, be called Christian or Protestant.

Second, there is the sacrament (or ordinance) of Baptism. The commonality is that baptism is practiced by all Protestants (insofar as I am aware) even though there are disagreements about it. Does one baptize infants or must a person declare a “decision for Jesus” before baptism? Is baptism a sacrament or an ordinance? Does an ontological change take place in a person through baptism?

Third, there is a common rejection of the Catholic Church as the sole repository of the fullness of truth. For some, this means a virulent anti-Catholicism. For others, it means a recognition of Catholics as fellow Christians who simply disagree on some matters of doctrine. Also, there are those who continue to see the papacy as the anti-Christ while others recognize the Pope as an important Christian leader but do not ascribe to him the authority that the Catholic Church does.

Thanks for the information, Gary. I gather there are three factors here: belief in the Holy Trinity, the ordinance of Baptism, and rejection of the Catholic Church as the source of all truth?

 

[icamay]

Thanks, icamay. Then you believe that sola Scriptura is the common key?

As a 3 1/2 decade Protestant, yes.

Catholics and conservative Christians here agree that they should believe in the Trinity, but it is not the case if you ask a fundamentalist Protestant. That is inherently a Catholic belief, and there are many Protestants who are always happy (almost proud) to disagree with the RCC. Fellow evangelical and fundamental Protestants will not disagree with that group, as, again, the Scripture is considered “open to interpretation”. There are some very popular Protestant churches who, once you dig into the meat of their belief system, are believers in “oneness”.

 

[meltzerboy]

As a 3 1/2 decade Protestant, yes.

Catholics and conservative Christians here agree that they should believe in the Trinity, but it is not the case if you ask a fundamentalist Protestant. That is inherently a Catholic belief, and there are many Protestants who are always happy (almost proud) to disagree with the RCC. Fellow evangelical and fundamental Protestants will not disagree with that group, as, again, the Scripture is considered “open to interpretation”. There are some very popular Protestant churches who, once you dig into the meat of their belief system, are believers in “oneness”.

Thanks again, icamay. And I suppose, as you stated originally, belief in Jesus as equivalent to G-d is the main requirement. So the Oneness Pentecostals, who I think (could be wrong) believe ONLY in Jesus, not G-d the Father or the Holy Spirit are regarded as Protestants? I suppose if they believed in ONLY G-d the Father (as Jews and Muslims) or ONLY the Holy Spirit (any such religion?), they wouldn’t be considered Christians.

 

[JonNC]

Jon,

While I could revealed more cracks in the “lithos,” I thought I pretty much laid the presumed monolithic nature of “protestantism” to rest with my examples.

You did, Pastor. I just wanted be a little more overt.

Jon

 

[gcnuss]

Thanks for the information, Gary. I gather there are three factors here: belief in the Holy Trinity, the ordinance of Baptism, and rejection of the Catholic Church as the source of all truth?

Belief in the Trinity is essential. Baptism, whether understood as a sacrament or an ordinance, is also essential. As far as the rejection of the Catholic Church, I would emphasize my wording “as the sole repository of the fullness of truth.” Some protestants will take this much further, claiming that the Catholic Church possesses no truth. Others recognize, as Luther did, that much of what we have we owe to the Catholic Church, e.g., the Scriptures and the Creeds.

 

[JonNC]

Thanks for the information, Gary. I gather there are three factors here: belief in the Holy Trinity, the ordinance of Baptism, and rejection of the Catholic Church as the source of all truth?

Actually, I think he emphasized the sole repository of the fullness of truth. There is very much truth in the Catholic Church.

Originally Posted by icamay
There are not solid rules in the world of Protestants, as it is by scripture alone.

Even this isn’t necessarily agreed on. As a Lutheran, I am bound to the Lutheran Confessions in terms of doctrine. In addition, Lutherans accept the three creeds, the early 6 councils, and essentialy the teachings regarding iconoclasm in the 7th. These are solid teachings, and when one rejectd them, they are by definition no longer Lutheran.

So, by scripture alone, we don’t in any way reject or exclude these things. We simply hold that they are accountable to scripture, not equal to it.

Jon

 

[meltzerboy]

Belief in the Trinity is essential. Baptism, whether understood as a sacrament or an ordinance, is also essential. As far as the rejection of the Catholic Church, I would emphasize my wording “as the sole repository of the fullness of truth.” Some protestants will take this much further, claiming that the Catholic Church possesses no truth. Others recognize, as Luther did, that much of what we have we owe to the Catholic Church, e.g., the Scriptures and the Creeds.

Thanks again, Pastor Gary! I’m beginning to see the Light (not in a conversion way, however). BTW, Luther’s explanation of the 8th commandment is similar to Jewish interpretation.

 

[icamay]

I think this thread is a great example of what it’s like to be Protestant. We can’t even agree on what we agree on! It makes me giggle.

 

[meltzerboy]

Actually, I think he emphasized the sole repository of the fullness of truth. There is very much truth in the Catholic Church.

Even this isn’t necessarily agreed on. As a Lutheran, I am bound to the Lutheran Confessions in terms of doctrine. In addition, Lutherans accept the three creeds, the early 6 councils, and essentialy the teachings regarding iconoclasm in the 7th. These are solid teachings, and when one rejectd them, they are by definition no longer Lutheran.

So, by scripture alone, we don’t in any way reject or exclude these things. We simply hold that they are accountable to scripture, not equal to it.

Jon

I recall reading that Lutherans and a couple of other Protestant denominations believe in doctrines as well as Scripture, though the latter is the core essential. As I mentioned to Pastor Gary, I understand his comment about the Catholic Church. Thanks again, Jon!

 

[JonNC]

I think this thread is a great example of what it’s like to be Protestant. We can’t even agree on what we agree on! It makes me giggle.

Hi icamay,
Yes, it sure does, but this also applies to Catholics and Orthodox. Sometimes we **all **can’t even agree on what we agree on. But to your point, this is why the term “protestant” is, IMHO, a meaningless term, unless you apply it as simply communions who are western and not Catholic currently in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
I don’t look at what the Reformed or Baptist or (fill in the blank) communion teaches and think, "they’re protestant and they don’t agree with me - how embarrassing!). I recognize, as a Lutheran, that they are from different roots of the reformation era, and they never agreed with us in the first place. And while I don’t question their Christianity, I see some of their teachings as heterodox, and in many ways find myself closer to Catholic teaching than to their’s.

Jon

 

[ESMDHokie77]

meltzerboy, (to one of your earlier posts),

Yes, one can define their protestant beliefs by how much of Catholicism they disagree/agree with.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thanks, Constantine. So, in your view, Protestantism as a whole is defined by a negative reaction, that is, rejection of the Catholic Church?

Well, Protestantism was born on the belief that the Catholic Church is wrong. That is why Luther started the Reformation, because he believed something was wrong with the Church back in his day.

And to this day every Protestant sect all believe something to be wrong with the Catholic Church. Whether its our reliance on Church and Tradition and not just Bible-only, or the Pope, or our use of religious images, or us praying to Saints and honoring the Mother of God, these are all uniform beliefs across all Protestants. Plus, their Apologetics revolve around proving the Church wrong, rather than proving that their teaching is right.

And as others have mentioned here. there is really no agreement in anything else. Most cannot even agree on the Trinity. Some believe there is only one God with 3 different manifestations. Some don’t believe that Jesus is God. And so on.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thanks, Sunshine. So the commonality is the Nicene Creed then?

No, the Nicene Creed is not common to Protestants. The Nicene Creed emphasized on the Divinity of Christ. There are a number of Protestants who do not believe in this. Also the Nicene Creed says, “we believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.” Many Protestants deny the need of a Church, that one only needs a “personal relationship with Christ”.

 

[JonNC]

=ConstantineTG;7773300]Well, Protestantism was born on the belief that the Catholic Church is wrong. That is why Luther started the Reformation, because he believed something was wrong with the Church back in his day.

and sometimes what’s lost is the fact that, initially, he tried to seek reform from within.

And to this day every Protestant sect all believe something to be wrong with the Catholic Church. Whether its our reliance on Church and Tradition and not just Bible-only, or the Pope, or our use of religious images, or us praying to Saints and honoring the Mother of God, these are all uniform beliefs across all Protestants.

Not quite. Lutherans reject iconoclam, and we most certainly honor the Holy Theotokos.

Plus, their Apologetics revolve around proving the Church wrong, rather than proving that their teaching is right.

Perhaps the difference between apologist and theologian. Catholic apologists spend a good deal of time trying to prove non-catholic communions wrong, too.

And as others have mentioned here. there is really no agreement in anything else. Most cannot even agree on the Trinity. Some believe there is only one God with 3 different manifestations. Some don’t believe that Jesus is God. And so on.

I think, as has been said before, a rejection of the Trinity is effectively non-Christian. I suspect you’ll find that most all non-Catholic communions agree on the Trinity.

Jon

 

[kathmandu]

The one thing protestants have in common is that they do not believe in the infallibility of the pope. That is were it started and still remains today.

 

[William_Pitts]

I was raised a Free Will Baptist. I have a degree in Bible from FWB Bible College. I can not recall ever hearing about any creed, Apostles or Nicene. When I asked certain questions and showing Scriptures to support my conclusions I was told, “We don’t believe things like that.” Don’t get me wrong, there are some very good people in the denomination. I have no doubt they love the Lord and have faith in Him as their Savior. The only two ordinances they practice is baptism by immersion and the Lord’s Supper, which is what they call communion. They celebrate the Lord’s Supper every 3 months on a Wednesday. On those night the men and women separate into two groups and also practice foot washing.

I’m sure there are groups that believe similar to them. The thing that distinguishes them from say Southern Baptist is the doctrine of free will. Free Will Baptists are Armenian, and Southern Baptists are more Calvinist. FWB don’t believe in OSAS but SB do.

I had a lot of questions and wished often I could have a simple faith that I saw in many of the members. But I always wanted to know what truth really was.

 

[meltzerboy]

I was raised a Free Will Baptist. I have a degree in Bible from FWB Bible College. I can not recall ever hearing about any creed, Apostles or Nicene. When I asked certain questions and showing Scriptures to support my conclusions I was told, “We don’t believe things like that.” Don’t get me wrong, there are some very good people in the denomination. I have no doubt they love the Lord and have faith in Him as their Savior. The only two ordinances they practice is baptism by immersion and the Lord’s Supper, which is what they call communion. They celebrate the Lord’s Supper every 3 months on a Wednesday. On those night the men and women separate into two groups and also practice foot washing.

I’m sure there are groups that believe similar to them. The thing that distinguishes them from say Southern Baptist is the doctrine of free will. Free Will Baptists are Armenian, and Southern Baptists are more Calvinist. FWB don’t believe in OSAS but SB do.

I had a lot of questions and wished often I could have a simple faith that I saw in many of the members. But I always wanted to know what truth really was.

I don’t think anyone before you raised the issue of “free will” as a Protestant theme. Apart from Southern Baptists, who believe in OSAS and Calvinist predestination, do any other Protestants (or Christians in general) reject the notion of free will? (I would think there must be some sects.) However, both Jimmy Carter and Bill Moyers are Southern Baptists, and somehow I doubt either of them believes in OSAS or predestination. I know the belief in free will is a very important part of Catholicism as well as Judaism. This deserves a separate thread. Thank you for your comments, William Pitts!