\What are the Similiarities and Differences in Western and Eastern Theology?

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

I think I may have diverted the thread into ecumenical councils. Now that I know somewhat of the gist, perhaps I will start another thread at a later time. I do agree let’s go back to the topic at hand.

Greetings Nine_Two,

There’s been a great deal of information that I have learned in the last few days. When I do start the thread on the councils, I sure would like to read your contributions, but you guys are talking about things way above my head. So sorry for my ignorance.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

 

[Hesychios]

Hi Phillip

Why would the approval of the Pope not be necessary in order for a Council to be Ecumenical? As head of one of the original five Patriarchates, I would believe that his approval would be every bit as necessary as, say, the approval of His All Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

In the early Ecumenical Councils the approval of all churches inside and outside the empire was desired, so naturally (for some examples) the Abyssinian church and the Mar Thoma church and the western church under the bishop of Rome and the church in Spain and the Armenian church would all be invited to review the decrees of the Council, approve them and adopt them for themselves in the interest of unity going forward.

But if they would not, the findings and determinations of the Council would be in effect anyway in whatever synods they were adopted. No one was waiting for the Catholicos of Seleucia-Ctesiphon nor the Metropolitan of Old Rome to weigh in, they would go ahead and just do it. History shows that this is exactly what happened and I think that is what my brother Nine_Two means.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Anathema,

You asked for recommended books to read. Here are some of my favorites:

Books by Archbishop Joseph Raya:
Face of God
Celebration: Reflections on the Divine Liturgy
Eyes of the Gospel
Abundance of Love: The Incarnation and the Byzantine Tradition
Transfiguration of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
Theotokos: Mother of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
Theophany and the Sacraments of Initiation
Christmas: Birth of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

Books by Fr. Alexander Schmemann
For the Life of the World: Sacraments and Orthodoxy
Great Lent: Journey to Pascha
The Eucharist: Sacrament of the Kingdom
Of Water and the Spirit: A Liturgical Study of Baptism

Other books:
The Art of Prayer: An Orthodox Anthology - compiled by Igumen Chariton of Valamo
Byzantine Theology - Fr. John Meyendorff
Eastern Christianity in the Byzantine Tradition - Fr. Lawrence Cross
Image, Symbol, and Mystery: An Eastern Christian View of the Sacraments - Fr. Lawrence Cross
Uniatism: The Definition, Causes, Effects, Scope, Dangers and Remedies - Fr. Cyril Korolevsky
Litrugy: Model of Prayer - Icon of Life - Fr. Robert Taft
Introduction to the Liturgical Services and Their Symbolism - Patriarch Gregorios III (Laham)
Courage to be Ourselves - Archbishop Joseph Tawil
The Spirituality of the Christian East - Tomas Cardinal Spidlik
God With Us Publication’s two catechetical series. One is called “Light for Life,” the other does not have a general title.

These have been some of my favorite books throughout the past few years. There are others, but I believe this list is already fairly hefty and will give you a solid foundation.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Hi Phillip In the early Ecumenical Councils the approval of all churches inside and outside the empire was desired, so naturally (for some examples) the Abyssinian church and the Mar Thoma church and the western church under the bishop of Rome and the church in Spain and the Armenian church would all be invited to review the decrees of the Council, approve them and adopt them for themselves in the interest of unity going forward.

But if they would not, the findings and determinations of the Council would be in effect anyway in whatever synods they were adopted. No one was waiting for the Catholicos of Seleucia-Ctesiphon nor the Metropolitan of Old Rome to weigh in, they would go ahead and just do it. History shows that this is exactly what happened and I think that is what my brother Nine_Two means.

Thanks, Michael.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

Thanks so much for your list of favourite books. I am looking forward to reading them.

I hope these can be found on Kindle, or in Text online. If I can, I can put them on my Kindle.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

 

[Nine_Two]

Nine_Two, although you are correct that the Orthodox did not participate in Vatican II, it would be wrong to assume that Orthodox representatives were not present. They were just not permitted to participate in the proceedings.

That being said, however, Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras did say to the Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch, Maximos IV, that he spoke on behalf of Orthodoxy at the Council. An interesting sentiment to be sure.

But the purpose of this thread was not to discuss Councils and which are or are not ecumenical. It was to discuss the differences in Eastern and Western theology. I believe we should get that back on track, and possibly open a new thread discussing ecumenical councils.

While you’re right that we are getting a bit off topic, as far as I know the Orthodox Church has been invited to attend a number of the more recent Latin councils as observers (Everything since Florence, if I’m not mistaken). I do believe that for the most part these invitations have been refused.

I find the idea that a Patriarch not in Communion with Orthodoxy would be appointed by a man who himself does not speak for all of Orthodoxy to speak on behalf of Orthodoxy, but that is something for another thread.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

Thanks so much for your list of favourite books. I am looking forward to reading them.

I hope these can be found on Kindle, or in Text online. If I can, I can put them on my Kindle.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

Anathema (I’m sorry, I feel so funny saying that, as though I’m excommunicating someone. )

I highly doubt you’ll be able to find most of those books on Kindle. A number of them I know for certain that you won’t be able to because I used to work for the publishing company that published them. I don’t think any of the books by +Kyr Raya are available on Kindle, sadly. But some others might be.

Although I didn’t list it, I believe the Philokalia (the current four volumes) is available on Kindle. Although the Philokalia is considered to be the classic text/collection on Eastern/Byzantine spirituality, I didn’t list it because I don’t believe it is a good introduction to Byzantine spirituality. That is why I recommended “The Art of Prayer” instead. In it you will get the core of the teachings of the Philokalia, but presented in a more introductory way, without, of course, losing depth of content. Whenever anyone asks me what the best introduction to the Jesus Prayer and/or Eastern (Byzantine) spirituality is, I always point them to “The Art of Prayer.”

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I find the idea that a Patriarch not in Communion with Orthodoxy would be appointed by a man who himself does not speak for all of Orthodoxy to speak on behalf of Orthodoxy, but that is something for another thread.

As you said, that is for another thread. But I would like to clarify. Patriarch Maximos IV (Melkite Catholic) was not appointed to speak on behalf of Orthodoxy by the Ecumenical Patriarch, Athenagoras. His All Holiness was so impressed by the Orthodoxy (note the capital “O”) of the responses of His Beatitude, Patriarch Maximos IV, and the other Melkite bishops that he commended him and said that he spoke on behalf of Orthodoxy, or rather represented what the Orthodox response would have been during the deliberations.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

Well then perhaps someone ought to take the time out to type those for Kindle. I can type around 90 wpm, maybe this is something that I can do for myself. That way I can have the books. I did this with 10 books already, all of D.Q. McInerny’s books and some other theology books. I just cannot redistribute them. That way I can borrow the books from the library if they have it.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit