What are the statistics

[damian_clarke]

In my cyber battles with the usual suspects a statistic is often bandied about. It is stated that the membership of the Holy Church is declining. This is usually referenced form Church attendance figures in the developed world. As one would expect from our opponents these stats are treated as casual self evident facts. No references are given for them but they are passed off as self evident. What are the actual figures/ Does anyone here have a good relaibel unbiased source for the number of practiciing Catholics in the world and per region. To satisfy my opponents I suppose the stats should be not from the Holy Church.
Thanks in advance

 

[Joe_5859]

Statistical cyber battles are usually unwinnable.

I know the global figure of Catholics is on the rise. I’m not sure about the figure for “practicing” Catholics, though.

In the end, though, I don’t know that getting swept up in statistical minutiae is helpful. Whether the number of practicing Catholics is increasing or decreasing has no bearing on whether or not what the Catholic Church teaches is true. Even if you locate a statistic to prove your point from a source that your cyber opponents will accept, their lingering doubts about Catholicism will still remain. And those doubts likely have nothing to do with numbers.

 

[promethius]

In my cyber battles with the usual suspects a statistic is often bandied about. It is stated that the membership of the Holy Church is declining. This is usually referenced form Church attendance figures in the developed world. As one would expect from our opponents these stats are treated as casual self evident facts. No references are given for them but they are passed off as self evident. What are the actual figures/ Does anyone here have a good relaibel unbiased source for the number of practiciing Catholics in the world and per region. To satisfy my opponents I suppose the stats should be not from the Holy Church.
Thanks in advance

CARA is a great source for this. Unfortunately, their online publications rotate, but they do offer some basic stats at all times:

Statistics on Catholic World Presense over the last 50 years

Mass attendance (in the west) over the last ten years has been stable as a percentage of Catholics and increasing as a raw number

 

[damian_clarke]

Thanks very much.

 

[Old_Salt]

I have often wondered about this issue.

Statistics do not seem a good barometer to measure this matter.

While there may be more Catholic now, than there were 50 years ago[per capita]
Or not,
how many of these “statistical Catholics” believe and practice everything that the Church proposes for our belief?

 

[Big_Feet]

I once saw a statistic that showed that 75% of the time statistics were correct. Not sure if I believed it or not, though.
Another time I saw that it was 68.3% of the time.

 

[promethius]

I once saw a statistic that showed that 75% of the time statistics were correct. Not sure if I believed it or not, though.
Another time I saw that it was 68.3% of the time.

“85% of statistics are made up on the spot”

“The joy of online internet communication is that you can make up quotes and their sources however you please”
~Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

“85% of statistics are made up on the spot”

“The joy of online internet communication is that you can make up quotes and their sources however you please”
~Abraham Lincoln.

“There are lies, damned lies and statistics.”
~Mark Twain

 

[thistle]

In my cyber battles with the usual suspects a statistic is often bandied about. It is stated that the membership of the Holy Church is declining. This is usually referenced form Church attendance figures in the developed world. As one would expect from our opponents these stats are treated as casual self evident facts. No references are given for them but they are passed off as self evident. What are the actual figures/ Does anyone here have a good relaibel unbiased source for the number of practiciing Catholics in the world and per region. To satisfy my opponents I suppose the stats should be not from the Holy Church.
Thanks in advance

speroforum.com/a/42113/Statistics-show-worldwide-increase-of-Catholics-and-Catholic-priests

 

[Evan]

Consider this “statistic”

whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2012/02/how_to_lie_with_statistics_exa_1.html

Which discusses the “98% of Catholic women use birth control.”

and shows that the study has confirmed that “98% of women who are Catholic, sexually active, unmarried and don’t want to have a baby are open to the idea of using birth control”

Not exactly the same group. I’m a mathematician and when we studied the proper way to gather statistics it was important to identify what you were searching for, BEFORE you collected the data. Then you needed to make sure you got a representative sample, then your questions had to be unbiased, and you had to provide a way for the responder to answer that would elicit honest answers.

A lot of studies, collect data, decide THEN what they want to announce. By that time, you missed almost every important item on my list.

 

[Joe_5859]

Consider this “statistic”

whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2012/02/how_to_lie_with_statistics_exa_1.html

Which discusses the “98% of Catholic women use birth control.”

and shows that the study has confirmed that “98% of women who are Catholic, sexually active, unmarried and don’t want to have a baby are open to the idea of using birth control”

Not exactly the same group. I’m a mathematician and when we studied the proper way to gather statistics it was important to identify what you were searching for, BEFORE you collected the data. Then you needed to make sure you got a representative sample, then your questions had to be unbiased, and you had to provide a way for the responder to answer that would elicit honest answers.

A lot of studies, collect data, decide THEN what they want to announce. By that time, you missed almost every important item on my list.

I think Guttmacher was probably just doing a survey with the intent to find out a breakdown of what contraception women use. That’s why they limited their survey only to women who are “at risk” of becoming pregnant who don’t want to be pregnant. For their purpose, those women who either want to become pregnant or can’t become pregnant were irrelevant and thus left out of the survey.

The White House then inexplicably ignored the context of the survey and latched on to the statistic because it was useful for them to do so.

 

[Old_Salt]

Consider this “statistic”

whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2012/02/how_to_lie_with_statistics_exa_1.html

Which discusses the “98% of Catholic women use birth control.”

and shows that the study has confirmed that “98% of women who are Catholic, sexually active, unmarried and don’t want to have a baby are open to the idea of using birth control”

Not exactly the same group. I’m a mathematician and when we studied the proper way to gather statistics it was important to identify what you were searching for, BEFORE you collected the data. Then you needed to make sure you got a representative sample, then your questions had to be unbiased, and you had to provide a way for the responder to answer that would elicit honest answers.

A lot of studies, collect data, decide THEN what they want to announce. By that time, you missed almost every important item on my list.

To be Catholic one has to believe and obey everything the Catholic Church teaches.
Anyone that knows the Church condemns birth control and still uses it, is not Catholic.

 

[Evan]

To be Catholic one has to believe and obey everything the Catholic Church teaches.
Anyone that knows the Church condemns birth control and still uses it, is not Catholic.

I did miss one qualifier which makes the statistic even less relevent: self-identified Catholic

 

[Oneofthewomen]

To be Catholic one has to believe and obey everything the Catholic Church teaches.
Anyone that knows the Church condemns birth control and still uses it, is not Catholic.

I am Catholic by nature of my baptism. What I “do” cannot ever change that. I may not be a Catholic in “good standing”, but I am still a Catholic none the less.

 

[Evan]

To be Catholic one has to believe and obey everything the Catholic Church teaches.
Anyone that knows the Church condemns birth control and still uses it, is not Catholic.

I believe the correct phase should read “Anyone that knows the Church condemns birth control and still uses it, is a bad Catholic.”

 

[ProVobis]

I believe the correct phase should read “Anyone that knows the Church condemns birth control and still uses it, is a bad Catholic.”

A philosophical question. Should someone who doesn’t know Catholic teaching even count as a Catholic for the purpose of statistics?

 

[TimothyH]

“85% of statistics are made up on the spot”

“The joy of online internet communication is that you can make up quotes and their sources however you please”
~Abraham Lincoln.

And 100% of people who drink orange juice will die!!!

I have some stats about the Archdioces of Atlanta. They are based on the Church’s own numbers but it cannot be denied. Catholicism in Atlanta is booming. We will be the biggest Church in Atlanta, pushing out the Southern Baptists, in another six or seven years.

I’ll see if I can dig up the links later on tonight.

-Tim-

 

[Oneofthewomen]

A philosophical question. Should someone who doesn’t know Catholic teaching even count as a Catholic for the purpose of statistics?

While I am not usually one for aguing “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”,
I have to say, I think this could be quite the lively discussion!

Too bad that a thread like that probably wouldn’t last long around here!