What are these?

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Madaglan

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I was doing research into family history and came across a Hungarian Catholic church of which my grandmother’s side of the family were members. The church still exists today and even has a museum. I looked at the pictures and find them fascinating. Yet, there are some things in the pictures that I don’t fully recognize. Could you help me out?

Here is the link for the series of pictures: web.mac.com/frjps/St._Ladislaus/Museum.html#0

Some questions:
  1. Is the three-paneled structure depicting Franciscans a rood screen? Would it have been level with the floor?
  2. What is the red vestment in the back? It looks like it came out of a Ruthenian church.
  3. The icons on the walls… were these added only recently? Or, would there have been icons inside Hungarian Catholic churches in the earlier parts of the 20th century?
Thanks! :cool:
 
Madaglan said:
I was doing research into family history and came across a Hungarian Catholic church of which my grandmother’s side of the family were members. The church still exists today and even has a museum. I looked at the pictures and find them fascinating. Yet, there are some things in the pictures that I don’t fully recognize. Could you help me out?

Here is the link for the series of pictures: web.mac.com/frjps/St._Ladislaus/Museum.html#0

Some questions:
  1. Is the three-paneled structure depicting Franciscans a rood screen? Would it have been level with the floor?
  2. What is the red vestment in the back? It looks like it came out of a Ruthenian church.
  3. The icons on the walls… were these added only recently? Or, would there have been icons inside Hungarian Catholic churches in the earlier parts of the 20th century?
Thanks! :cool:
Click to expand...
The red vestment looks to be a deacon’s dalmatic. Given the maniple hanging from it, it’s a proper roman pre-V II liturgical set. The Stole is hung separately behind it.

Many Roman Rite churches have icons, especially in slavic areas.
 
For some reason, nothing appears on the link you gave on my computer.

However, the mention of the deacon’s dalmatic reminded me of something (which doesn’t apply here).

There was a time in Ruthenian and Ukrainian churches when Deacons and Sub-deacons wore the corresponding Latin vestments, instead of the Sticharion, Orarion, and (for the Deacon) cuffs.
 
Cluny said:
For some reason, nothing appears on the link you gave on my computer.

However, the mention of the deacon’s dalmatic reminded me of something (which doesn’t apply here).

There was a time in Ruthenian and Ukrainian churches when Deacons and Sub-deacons wore the corresponding Latin vestments, instead of the Sticharion, Orarion, and (for the Deacon) cuffs.
Click to expand...
web.mac.com/frjps/St._Ladislaus/Home.html

Try that. It is the main page. If that pops up, you can click on the photo albums link to get to the parish museum album.
 
Aramis said:
The red vestment looks to be a deacon’s dalmatic. Given the maniple hanging from it, it’s a proper roman pre-V II liturgical set. The Stole is hung separately behind it.

Many Roman Rite churches have icons, especially in slavic areas.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the observation on it being a deacon’s dalmatic. Yeah, when I zoomed in on the picture, I noticed the stole draped over.
 
What part of hungary. My family was from Zerne
.freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deutschzerne/Files/Heimatbuch.html

The website may interest you. It tells what our ancestors went through. My family is listed in the book as many were killed in the concentration camps because they were German Catholics.

I will try to find links to the church in this town. the church was the life of the people there. It is now just deteriorating and it was a beautiful church. It says that only 3 to 5 people go to Mass on Christmas and Easter, if I remember right.
 
blossom02 said:
What part of hungary. My family was from Zerne
.freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deutschzerne/Files/Heimatbuch.html

The website may interest you. It tells what our ancestors went through. My family is listed in the book as many were killed in the concentration camps because they were German Catholics.

I will try to find links to the church in this town. the church was the life of the people there. It is now just deteriorating and it was a beautiful church. It says that only 3 to 5 people go to Mass on Christmas and Easter, if I remember right.
Click to expand...
I don’t know. My grandmother on my mom’s side is still alive, but she does not know where her father was born in Hungary. I’ve got a lot on my great-grandfather (immigration document, social security card, death certificate), and on one document it mentions his place of origin as Hungary, but does not specify where. I’m going to send a request for his obituary. It may give his birthplace town there. He came to the U.S. before WWI, and his last name has several variant spellings, but basically being an occupational name meaning “armor” or “armourer.” Since it’s occupational and not regional, that side of my history is more difficult to trace, at least going back to the Old Country. Anyone have any ideas?

My grandfather’s side on my mom’s side is much better known. My grandfather was born in Gocovo, Slovakia, and we still have relatives who live there and the surrounding area. One relative lives in Roznava and writes translated letters to us every so many months. I understand my relatives on that side were miners. 🙂
 
Madaglan said:
Thanks for the observation on it being a deacon’s dalmatic. Yeah, when I zoomed in on the picture, I noticed the stole draped over.
Click to expand...
What is hanging in front is not a stole. It’s a maniple. Worn on the left forearm.
The stole is completely behind the dalmatic.
 
Madaglan said:
  1. The icons on the walls… were these added only recently? Or, would there have been icons inside Hungarian Catholic churches in the earlier parts of the 20th century?
Thanks! :cool:
Click to expand...
Hi,

These ikons are VERY recent. You can tell by the style of painting and by the fact that they are labeled in English and not OCS or Hungarian. The icons depicted are St. NIcholas, St. Stefan, looks like St. Luke, and St. John the Baptist. Sorry, can’t tell who the female saint is on the end…

hope this helps…
 
Patchunky said:
Hi,

These ikons are VERY recent. You can tell by the style of painting and by the fact that they are labeled in English and not OCS or Hungarian. The icons depicted are St. NIcholas, St. Stefan, looks like St. Luke, and St. John the Baptist. Sorry, can’t tell who the female saint is on the end…

hope this helps…
Click to expand...
I think the ikons are all male. In which case it might be St John the Evangelist?
 
LilyM said:
I think the ikons are all male. In which case it might be St John the Evangelist?
Click to expand...
If you look very closely at the head, it is covered by the red robe which is only done for female saints…
 
SyroMalankara said:
Perhaps St. Elizabeth of Hungary?
Click to expand...
She sounds like the most likely candidate if it is female (and I defer to Patchunky’s superior knowledge on the matter) given the inclusion of St Stepan, and other Franciscan saints (St Elizabeth was a third-order Franciscan) as well.
 
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