What are those 70 books?

[Big_Dummy]

4Ezra.14
[38] And on the next day, behold, a voice called me, saying, “Ezra, open your mouth and drink what I give you to drink.”
[39] Then I opened my mouth, and behold, a full cup was offered to me; it was full of something like water, but its color was like fire.
[40] And I took it and drank; and when I had drunk it, my heart poured forth understanding, and wisdom increased in my breast, for my spirit retained its memory;
[41] and my mouth was opened, and was no longer closed.
[42] And the Most High gave understanding to the five men, and by turns they wrote what was dictated, in characters which they did not know. They sat forty days, and wrote during the daytime, and ate their bread at night.
[43] As for me, I spoke in the daytime and was not silent at night.
[44] So during the forty days ninety-four books were written.
[45] And when the forty days were ended, the Most High spoke to me, saying, “Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first and let the worthy and the unworthy read them;
[46] **but keep the seventy that were written last, in order to give them to the wise among your people. **[47] For in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the river of knowledge.”
[48] And I did so.

---

 

[melchesidechpio]

4Ezra.14
[38] And on the next day, behold, a voice called me, saying, “Ezra, open your mouth and drink what I give you to drink.”
[39] Then I opened my mouth, and behold, a full cup was offered to me; it was full of something like water, but its color was like fire.
[40] And I took it and drank; and when I had drunk it, my heart poured forth understanding, and wisdom increased in my breast, for my spirit retained its memory;
[41] and my mouth was opened, and was no longer closed.
[42] And the Most High gave understanding to the five men, and by turns they wrote what was dictated, in characters which they did not know. They sat forty days, and wrote during the daytime, and ate their bread at night.
[43] As for me, I spoke in the daytime and was not silent at night.
[44] So during the forty days ninety-four books were written.
[45] And when the forty days were ended, the Most High spoke to me, saying, “Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first and let the worthy and the unworthy read them;
[46] **but keep the seventy that were written last, in order to give them to the wise among your people. **[47] For in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the river of knowledge.”
[48] And I did so.

---

are you talking about the 4th book of Esdras (aprocryphal book in Catholic Canon)?

 

[Ocarm]

are you talking about the 4th book of Esdras (aprocryphal book in Catholic Canon)?

4 Ezra is an apocalyptic writing which forms part of 2 Esdras, which (as I’m sure you know) is indeed part of the Old Testament canon accepted by Catholics. It is also found as a separate work in some alternative scriptural canons. Just to make things complicated, however, some translations of 2 Esdras don’t contain this passage.

As to what the 70 books are: that this passage should be understood symbolically is suggested by the context of the numbers. In his vision Ezra is commissioned to re-establish the law by God, and writes 94 books. The first 24 are the Tanakh, or the major writings of Judaism in Ezra’s time, which are the core of the Old Testament. The other 70 books are not named or explained.

Given that we know that Ezra was not actually the author of the Tanakh, because the 24 books were all composed before his time, the account is thus not to be taken literally. (It’s a vision, after all). What the 70 books symbolise is open to question, but 10x7 (the perfect number) is likely to indicate that the number is a poetic choice. Probably the author is acknowledging that other scripture is still to be wrtten, both the Old Testament books that did not yet exist when he lived, and also perhaps the books of the New Testament.

Alternative explanations are very possible, of course. This kind of exegesis - especially when involving apocalyptic writings - is not a precise science.

 

[DavidFilmer]

4Ezra.14
[46] **but keep the seventy that were written last, in order to give them to the wise among your people. **[47] For in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the river of knowledge."

This is the first I have considered this text. But the number “70” immediately makes me think of the Septuagint (from the Greek word for "seventy, often abbreviated as the LXX). This is the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT - a work which has traditionally been attributed to King Ptolemy for inclusion in the Great Library of Alexandria. According to tradition, 70 (or is it 72?) translators worked independently, yet produced the same result. This is why the Greek translation of these Hebrew texts is called “the seventy.” This translation was of great importance to the majority of Jews in the time of Jesus, who spoke Greek but not Hebrew (yes, most Jews in the time of Jesus were Greek-speaking).

I have not made any study of this text or verse #46. In a perfunctory reading, the context of verse #46 does seem to be referring to 70 books.

But, is it possible that the text, “but keep the seventy that were written last” refers not to what was written (the books), but those who wrote (the translators)? These LXX translators were the “last” to write the Scriptures for the benefit of the Jews - namely the Greek-speaking Jews of the Diaspora, who outnumbered Hebrew-speaking Jews.

It’s just a thought. But it’s interesting.

 

[NHInsider]

4 Ezra is an apocalyptic writing which forms part of 2 Esdras, which (as I’m sure you know) is indeed part of the Old Testament canon accepted by Catholics.
It is also found as a separate work in some alternative scriptural canons. Just to make things complicated, however, some translations of 2 Esdras don’t contain this passage.

Mike - I don’t think this is quite accurate. Canonical 2 Esdras is what we call Nehemiah in the new translations. The passage cited by the OP is not part of that text. Rather it is part of the Jewish Apocalypse of Esdras/Ezra, which in Catholic Bibles is sometimes included as apocryphal and designated as 4 Esdras/Ezra. It was not in the LLX and is not part of the Catholic OT.

Alternative explanations are very possible, of course. This kind of exegesis - especially when involving apocalyptic writings - is not a precise science.

Absolutely.

 

[Ocarm]

Mike - I don’t think this is quite accurate. Canonical 2 Esdras is what we call Nehemiah in the new translations. The passage cited by the OP is not part of that text. Rather it is part of the Jewish Apocalypse of Esdras/Ezra, which in Catholic Bibles is sometimes included as apocryphal and designated as 4 Esdras/Ezra. It was not in the LLX and is not part of the Catholic OT.

Actually, that is what I was trying - and failing miserably - to say: that the apocalyptic passages are an insertion into a canonical book which in its altered form is part of other canons. Since upon re-reading my post I can’t begin to see how that would ever have come across, I apologise for any confusion caused, and thank you for your much-needed correction.

I plead to making my contribution too sketchily and without sufficient thought; but I will also take the hit and say I was very much in error putting it the way I did.

Thanks again.

 

[NHInsider]

The number of books named “Esdras” and the assorted numbers is super-confusing.

 

[steve_b]

Mike - I don’t think this is quite accurate. Canonical 2 Esdras is what we call Nehemiah in the new translations. The passage cited by the OP is not part of that text. Rather it is part of the Jewish Apocalypse of Esdras/Ezra, which in Catholic Bibles is sometimes included as apocryphal and designated as 4 Esdras/Ezra. It was not in the LLX and is not part of the Catholic OT.

Correct

For the OP, Here is Ezra
jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/15ezra.html

 

[steve_b]

4Ezra.14
[38] And on the next day, behold, a voice called me, saying, “Ezra, open your mouth and drink what I give you to drink.”
[39] Then I opened my mouth, and behold, a full cup was offered to me; it was full of something like water, but its color was like fire.
[40] And I took it and drank; and when I had drunk it, my heart poured forth understanding, and wisdom increased in my breast, for my spirit retained its memory;
[41] and my mouth was opened, and was no longer closed.
[42] And the Most High gave understanding to the five men, and by turns they wrote what was dictated, in characters which they did not know. They sat forty days, and wrote during the daytime, and ate their bread at night.
[43] As for me, I spoke in the daytime and was not silent at night.
[44] So during the forty days ninety-four books were written.
[45] And when the forty days were ended, the Most High spoke to me, saying, “Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first and let the worthy and the unworthy read them;
[46] **but keep the seventy that were written last, in order to give them to the wise among your people. **[47] For in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the river of knowledge.”
[48] And I did so.

---

Here is canonical Ezra
jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/15ezra.html

 

[Big_Dummy]

Thanks,

We do know when the psudeo edition was written it does testifly as th the number of public books in the hebrew canon.