What are you doing to get unity?

[surgei]

Annie,

You uncharitably mischaracterize a sincere query as a rant - I think you’d do well to read and understand the point being made before being presumptuous in response.

Many years,

Neil

Thanks for “helping” Irish.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Surgei,

Check your pm.

CDL

 

[XtusVictor]

I alternate going to a Latin-right mass and the UGCC divine liturgy and almost always bring a friend.

Out of the 20 Latin Rites I have taken to the UGCC church only one was not crazy about it. The other 19 had a wonderful experience and many have come back from time to time on their own. I am very pro-Eastern liturgy, though I do not excuse a false ecumenism based solely on emotions. Still, a positive regard for one another’s prayer is a necessary foundation.

 

[surgei]

I alternate going to a Latin-right mass and the UGCC divine liturgy and almost always bring a friend.

Out of the 20 Latin Rites I have taken to the UGCC church only one was not crazy about it. The other 19 had a wonderful experience and many have come back from time to time on their own. I am very pro-Eastern liturgy, though I do not excuse a false ecumenism based solely on emotions. Still, a positive regard for one another’s prayer is a necessary foundation.

How about attending an Orthodox Liturgy. I think it would be a good experiance for you. You would be encouraged by your local ordinary I expect. However you of course would not be able to receive ordinarily. Although I do know of an Ethioptic church that had received an entire seminary class of UGCC’s when they visited. This is not in any way shape or form the norm. I think it should be avoided much of the time in that it could cause confusion as to the states of the Churches. The Liturgy of the Orthodox is often slightly different than that of the various Uniates.
I actualy came to Christ through the UGCC thanks to the suffering Fr. Jaraslav at the UGCC cathedral of St Nicholas in Chicago was willing to endure on my behalf. Father had taken my friend and I into the rectory for breakfast and then spent several hours talking to us on the state of the Church of Ukraine. He showed us his icons of the genocides of Chernobyl and Holodomyr. After the visit Father Jary “fell” down the cement steps outside the Cathedral. I personaly believe their might have been some Padre Pio/ John Vienne type battles going on as I, at the time, was into some very very bad mojo. I have only seen father once since that time. If anyone sees him, tell him thanks for me, and that I love him and remember him often in my prayers for Ukraine. May God grant him many years.

 

[XtusVictor]

How about attending an Orthodox Liturgy. I think it would be a good experiance for you. You would be encouraged by your local ordinary I expect. However you of course would not be able to receive ordinarily. Although I do know of an Ethioptic church that had received an entire seminary class of UGCC’s when they visited. This is not in any way shape or form the norm. I think it should be avoided much of the time in that it could cause confusion as to the states of the Churches. The Liturgy of the Orthodox is often slightly different than that of the various Uniates.
I actualy came to Christ through the UGCC thanks to the suffering Fr. Jaraslav at the UGCC cathedral of St Nicholas in Chicago was willing to endure on my behalf. Father had taken my friend and I into the rectory for breakfast and then spent several hours talking to us on the state of the Church of Ukraine. He showed us his icons of the genocides of Chernobyl and Holodomyr. After the visit Father Jary “fell” down the cement steps outside the Cathedral. I personaly believe their might have been some Padre Pio/ John Vienne type battles going on as I, at the time, was into some very very bad mojo. I have only seen father once since that time. If anyone sees him, tell him thanks for me, and that I love him and remember him often in my prayers for Ukraine. May God grant him many years.

Actually, the local Orthodox church is known for being unfriendly to Catholics, especially Eastern Catholics. The pastor of the Orthodox Church refuses to speak to or even acknowlege the UGCC pastor. If the priest of “my” UGCC church is not welcome, I am not welcome.

It is very sad. And, if I did go, I know not to go for communion. Arguments at the chalice are not unknown in that church.

 

[yeshua]

Actually, the local Orthodox church is known for being unfriendly to Catholics, especially Eastern Catholics. The pastor of the Orthodox Church refuses to speak to or even acknowlege the UGCC pastor. If the priest of “my” UGCC church is not welcome, I am not welcome.

It is very sad. And, if I did go, I know not to go for communion. Arguments at the chalice are not unknown in that church.

It is safe to say that there is going to be a diversity between Catholic-Orthodox relations. I for one have had nothing but warm and accepting experiences by my Orthodox cousins, both Eastern and Orientals, and sometimes insulting experiences by members within my own Communion. What is best, I believe, is to hope for the good experiences and pray for those involved in the less than kind ones we find ourselves in.

Peace and God Bless.

 

[surgei]

Actually, the local Orthodox church is known for being unfriendly to Catholics, especially Eastern Catholics. The pastor of the Orthodox Church refuses to speak to or even acknowlege the UGCC pastor. If the priest of “my” UGCC church is not welcome, I am not welcome.

It is very sad. And, if I did go, I know not to go for communion. Arguments at the chalice are not unknown in that church.

Dude I am so sorry.
I think Father Andrew Lowe in Grand Rapids Michigan does a wonderful job of explaining who should aproach the chalice.
As far as the faithful go, the priest is charged at ordination to “guard this with your life.” The will of the priest to grant someone the holy gifts or deny them is not something any of them take lightly. As such, pray for them, because when they deny someone they don’t do it with ease.

 

[XtusVictor]

Dude I am so sorry.
I think Father Andrew Lowe in Grand Rapids Michigan does a wonderful job of explaining who should aproach the chalice.
As far as the faithful go, the priest is charged at ordination to “guard this with your life.” The will of the priest to grant someone the holy gifts or deny them is not something any of them take lightly. As such, pray for them, because when they deny someone they don’t do it with ease.

I do respect the Orthodox position on refusal of communion. It is the same position we have toward Protestants. And frankly we are not in communion.

But “arguments at the chalice” ought to be a great big red flag waving from a mountaintop indicating that there is really something else going on here. And the ill treatment of the local UGCC explains everything I need to know.

 

[surgei]

I do respect the Orthodox position on refusal of communion. It is the same position we have toward Protestants. And frankly we are not in communion.

But “arguments at the chalice” ought to be a great big red flag waving from a mountaintop indicating that there is really something else going on here. And the ill treatment of the local UGCC explains everything I need to know.

These wounds are very deep. They are unfortunately inflicted on and by both UGCC and Orthodox. One of my former roomates will not speak to me because I am Orthodox and no longer UGC. The whole existance of the UGCC is a result of religous opression by the ruling party of what is now Western Ukraine who were LC. Those that remained faithful to the Orthodox were then mistreated by the UGCC. When they came to power they returned the favor of allowing someone to suffer with Christ. These wounds are old and deep.
I am not saying that the UGCC is responsible for the hurt. Nor am I saying that the OC is not resposnible for the healing. Only that this is an issue of ages not an issue of started in recent memory.
May Christ the healer come to our aid.

 

[XtusVictor]

These wounds are very deep. They are unfortunately inflicted on and by both UGCC and Orthodox. One of my former roomates will not speak to me because I am Orthodox and no longer UGC. The whole existance of the UGCC is a result of religous opression by the ruling party of what is now Western Ukraine who were LC. Those that remained faithful to the Orthodox were then mistreated by the UGCC. When they came to power they returned the favor of allowing someone to suffer with Christ. These wounds are old and deep.
I am not saying that the UGCC is responsible for the hurt. Nor am I saying that the OC is not resposnible for the healing. Only that this is an issue of ages not an issue of started in recent memory.
May Christ the healer come to our aid.

I appreciate your words, and yes the wounds are deep. Still, the ecumenical relations are all too often one sided. The Catholics are doing most of the work to reach out. This gives the Orthodox power–a power that is often not used to heal but to perpetuate the division. As you have stated else where, it is you view that the Catholics need the Orthodox more than the Orthodox need the Catholics. This is simply not true. It is just that the Catholics are working harder to serve the Christ of John 17. Efforts here are not at all equal by your own admission.

 

[surgei]

I appreciate your words, and yes the wounds are deep. Still, the ecumenical relations are all too often one sided. The Catholics are doing most of the work to reach out. This gives the Orthodox power–a power that is often not used to heal but to perpetuate the division. As you have stated else where, it is you view that the Catholics need the Orthodox more than the Orthodox need the Catholics. This is simply not true. It is just that the Catholics are working harder to serve the Christ of John 17. Efforts here are not at all equal by your own admission.

I don’t think they are one sided at all. I think many of us Orthodox are waiting for what we consider to be true signs of looking for unity.
Benedict XVI droping the legitimate title “Patriarch of the Occident” and keeping some of the others does not help things. Bishop Hilarion talks about this in an interview he gave. At this time neither the EO nor the RC have their house in order to the point that unity would be possible without further scism. Look to those in the line of SSPX in the and their counter thesis the Paulists in the west. Look to the HOCNA and their counter thesis OCAin the east.
However, if a united voice does not come soon, the world may be lost. That is why I started this thread. Because our world is going to hell literaly. As far as we are seperated we can do nothing about it.

 

[Ignatius]

I have been added praying for His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and for unity during the Eucharistic prayer when I am attending mass.

Lord, may this sacrifice, which has made our peace with you, advance the peace and salvation of all the world.
Strengthen in faith and love your pilgrim Church on earth; your servant, Pope Benedict, our Bishop, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, and all the patriarchs and bishops, with the clergy and the entire people your son has gathered here before you.

 

[surgei]

I have been added praying for His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and for unity during the Eucharistic prayer when I am attending mass.

Lord, may this sacrifice, which has made our peace with you, advance the peace and salvation of all the world.
Strengthen in faith and love your pilgrim Church on earth; your servant, Pope Benedict, our Bishop, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, and all the patriarchs and bishops, with the clergy and the entire people your son has gathered here before you.

Are you a priest?

 

[surgei]

At this time neither the EO nor the RC have their house in order to the point that unity would be possible without further scism. Look to those in the line of SSPX in the and their counter thesis the Paulists in the west. Look to the HOCNA and their counter thesis OCAin the east.

SSPX Society of Saint Pius X an ultra conservative section of the Catholic Church that strougles with Vatican II and certain actions of the Pope. (I met a guy that will not pray the luminous mysteries because they were not given by Mary.)
The Paulist are kinda the other end of the spectrum as far as inovation in liturgy. They genealy take issue with the pope being to conservative. I have seen their priests celebrate mass with pita bread. Really wish I could say I was being dishonest or joking here. They have been put in charge of GVSU’s students by the Bishop of Grand Rapids.
HOCNA- Holy Orthodox Church of North America. is an ultra conservative Orthodox comunion who chastized the ROCOR for seeking to have intercomunion with the Moscow Patriarchate.
OCA- Orthodox Church of America and Canada. Ok so I just pick on them cause at the OCA parish I attend the women don’t wear head coverings and they read the epistle even when men are present. The priest doesn’t waer a beard and well… God bless Father Frank Enflamed with love for God.
The point is that if Rome and Moscow and Constantinople and Antioch and… came back into comunion by miricle over night you would have all these offshoots that went into further scism and many likely would go into true herecy.

 

[Barbieflausa]

I celebrate every Western holiday with my Catholic branch of the family…and my Catholic branch celebrates every Eastern holiday with us. My whole family is a living “ecumenical council.” We may cross ourselves diffrently…but we all come togther as a family at ONE big dinner table. Its loud, its crazy, but its family.

I pray one day ALL of the Family of God may come together at one table, hold hands and truly bring the “distributed” body of Christ back together. That will only happen by the power, grace, mercy and love of The Holy Trinity.

Blessings to each and everyone of you here this Joyous Christmas season. Lets ALL remember to keep CHRIST in Christmas. (in whatever way you keep it)


Peace be with you…
Barbie

 

[XtusVictor]

That assessment that we do nothing is horrible. Personally I have lost much in Being Orthodox and in Seeking unity.

Yes, it is horrible, but that doesn’t make it untrue.

What have you lost in being Orthodox? Apparently Orthodoxy to you is all holy and perfect and needs nothing of Catholicism. So what could you possibly have lost? Let’s hear it.

Admittedly for this Catholic it is hard to sympathize with the losses of one who has left the Catholic faith. But I am open.

Seeking unity does require sacrifices, that is certain. My pastor was humiliated by the local Orthodox priest. That was a sacrifice. And he has born it well. In fact, I am far more outraged about it than he is. But, he has learned not to expect more.

 

[surgei]

Yes, it is horrible, but that doesn’t make it untrue.

What have you lost in being Orthodox? Apparently Orthodoxy to you is all holy and perfect and needs nothing of Catholicism. So what could you possibly have lost? Let’s hear it.

Admittedly for this Catholic it is hard to sympathize with the losses of one who has left the Catholic faith. But I am open.

Seeking unity does require sacrifices, that is certain. My pastor was humiliated by the local Orthodox priest. That was a sacrifice. And he has born it well. In fact, I am far more outraged about it than he is. But, he has learned not to expect more.

My grandfather, a catholic deacon, has not talked to me since he found out. My former roomate wont talk to me. My girlfriend married another guy and my father asked me to leave.
As for seeking unity. My spiritual father, that is the man who baptized me, won’t grant me confession and wants me in a mental hospital. A former mentor won’t acknowledge he ever knew me to anyone.
Do you want me to tell you how I suffered because of my Grandfathers ethnicity? A group of guys held me down and said Hitler missed one. They then proceeded to put out cigarettes on my chest.
If any of these are saved by what they do I am glad to suffer. May I alone be damned and they all be saved I will suffer. For indeed I already do.
I do not want your sympathy, but do not doubt my oblation.

 

[XtusVictor]

My grandfather, a catholic deacon, has not talked to me since he found out. My former roomate wont talk to me. My girlfriend married another guy and my father asked me to leave.
As for seeking unity. My spiritual father, that is the man who baptized me, won’t grant me confession and wants me in a mental hospital. A former mentor won’t acknowledge he ever knew me to anyone.
Do you want me to tell you how I suffered because of my Grandfathers ethnicity? A group of guys held me down and said Hitler missed one. They then proceeded to put out cigarettes on my chest.
If any of these are saved by what they do I am glad to suffer. May I alone be damned and they all be saved I will suffer. For indeed I already do.
I do not want your sympathy, but do not doubt my oblation.

I dont know what to say. What you have suffered is unjust and I pray you have reconciliation with family and friends. As for your mentor, he cannot absolve you any more than your pastor can give me communion.

While what you have lost is horrible and unfair, you have not lost it for the sake of Christian unity as much as for abandoning the Catholic faith for another.

Catholics do not generally practice shunning. Most Catholic families have someone who has left the faith in one way or another, and in most cases this has not resulted in a complete breakdown in communications. I expect your family will come around.

You are in my prayers, Surgei. And, at least you have this Catholic to argue with.

 

[surgei]

I dont know what to say. What you have suffered is unjust and I pray you have reconciliation with family and friends. As for your mentor, he cannot absolve you any more than your pastor can give me communion.

While what you have lost is horrible and unfair, you have not lost it for the sake of Christian unity as much as for abandoning the Catholic faith for another.

Catholics do not generally practice shunning. Most Catholic families have someone who has left the faith in one way or another, and in most cases this has not resulted in a complete breakdown in communications. I expect your family will come around.

You are in my prayers, Surgei. And, at least you have this Catholic to argue with.

Do you see that I don’t realy want to argue I want my family back. I wan my friends back I want to be rid of my scars. So I go to adoration. I pray the paraklesis. I ask others to understand. To long for unity.

 

[XtusVictor]

Do you see that I don’t realy want to argue I want my family back. I wan my friends back I want to be rid of my scars. So I go to adoration. I pray the paraklesis. I ask others to understand. To long for unity.

Adoration? Thought the Orthodox were opposed to that.

On another point, Catholicism like Orthodoxy is a family. In a very real sense you have left one family for another.

On a last point. If you dont want to argue, then why the surly remarks elsewhere?