What are you doing to help the Melkite Greek Catholics suffering in Palestine?

[Ridgerunner]

Where was the attack on Israeli’s in the first post? My parish is Melkite, and we have many Palestinian members, and almost everyone at least has Palestinian relatives. ** Is anyone seeking to have Congress void the multi-millions of dollars it sends daily to aid the Iraeli Army in their cause of bulldozing Melkite Greek Catholic homes, killing Melkite Greek Catholic Christian Children in Bethlehem, refusing Melkite Catholics access to Health Care, etc. etc.?
Seems like an attack to me, and very political.**

Such actions as denying health-care for Palestinians (elderly and children included due to road-blocks is common, day to day practice. That isn’t an attack on Israeli’s, it’s a statement of the policies of the IDF at checkpoints. ** Oh? Are you saying it is the policy of Israel to deny healthcare to Palestinians, or are you only saying Israelis have roadblocks in some places? Perhaps you, unlike Christy, do not think it is the Israeli army’s “…cause of…refusing Melkite Catholics access to Health Care…” as she put it. You might clarify if you, yourself, are not saying it is the “cause” of the Israeli army to “deny healthcare to Palestinians”. Alternatively, you can you do mean to say that.**

One doesn’t have to say, or even imply, that Israeli’s are immoral or twisted just to point out the basic day-to-day operating procedures of the IDF, and I didn’t see that done by anyone here. ** I’m willing to stipulate that Israelis do, indeed, have checkpoints in various places, and that they are almost certainly inconvenient for those whose business takes them through them.**

Melkites (and others) ARE suffering in Palestine due to policies and illegal land-takeovers. So the the topic of the thread (how do we help), can be perfectly valid without getting into the nasty politics of support or opposition to Israel. ** Now, see, you are introducing another anti-Israeli talking point, the “illegal land-takeovers”. That’s a debateable, political thing, and very much so. So, if you really want to discuss donating charity to Palestinian Catholics, “without getting into the nasty politics of support or opposition to Israel” as you say, you would have left that one alone. Shall I take it as withdrawn, then? I will assume your statement that “Melkites (and others) ARE suffering in Palestine due to policies…” would also apply to the policies of Hamas and Fatah and the various terror organizations, which would also include Al Quaeda, now allied to Hamas. Would I be right about that?**

Peace and God bless!

 

[Ghosty]

** Is anyone seeking to have Congress void the multi-millions of dollars it sends daily to aid the Iraeli Army in their cause of bulldozing Melkite Greek Catholic homes, killing Melkite Greek Catholic Christian Children in Bethlehem, refusing Melkite Catholics access to Health Care, etc. etc.?
Seems like an attack to me, and very political.**

That’s not an attack, it’s a reasonable question of policy. Our brothers and sisters are indeed being overtly abused by a foreign government that receives a lot of U.S. aid. As taxpayers, it’s quite reasonable to question the appropriateness of this, even if they weren’t our brothers and sisters in the Faith who were being abused.

** Oh? Are you saying it is the policy of Israel to deny healthcare to Palestinians, or are you only saying Israelis have roadblocks in some places? Perhaps you, unlike Christy, do not think it is the Israeli army’s “…cause of…refusing Melkite Catholics access to Health Care…” as she put it. You might clarify if you, yourself, are not saying it is the “cause” of the Israeli army to “deny healthcare to Palestinians”. Alternatively, you can you do mean to say that.**

It is IDF policy to not allow people, including ambulances, to pass from one side of their own city to the other if they are in Israel-controlled Palestine. That is a fact. If you are in one neighborhood, and the hospital is in the next, you will NOT be allowed medical care without waiting at the checkpoints, possibly for hours. I don’t know if it’s their “cause” or not, nor do I know what Christy meant by the term, but I do know that there are very, very easy ways to resolve such an abuse if it’s not at all intended.

It is certainly a “cause” of the Israeli government to bulldoze Palestinian homes and leave people homeless, however. It is policy to do this in response to both terrorist attacks (not necessarily bulldozing only terrorist homes, but entire neighborhoods in the name of retaliation and “prevention”, i.e. to frighten the Palestinians out of such actions. Homes are also bulldozed if the Israeli government finds reason to use the land itself, despite the land being inside of Palestine and outside the proper borders of Israel. This has been a matter of policy for the Israeli government, particularly in the interest of preserving and/or expanding Israeli settlements on Palestinian land. They’ve not even argued that it’s NOT the policy of Israel, but have rather argued that the Palestinians have no legal claims to such lands.

** Now, see, you are introducing another anti-Israeli talking point, the “illegal land-takeovers”. That’s a debateable, political thing, and very much so. So, if you really want to discuss donating charity to Palestinian Catholics, “without getting into the nasty politics of support or opposition to Israel” as you say, you would have left that one alone.**

It is not opposition to Israel to bring up the very real policies of the country that cause damage to Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, just as it’s not anti-U.S. politics to question prisoner interrogation policies. I’m not talking about Israel’s right to exist, or any such thing, only about the admitted policies of Israel to take Palestinian land, as it was defined by international law. Not even Israel denies this, which is why it’s odd to me that you question it. It’s not a question of whether or not the international laws say that the borders are to be set where they were, but rather a question of whether or not Israel should be bound by those laws for various reasons. As of now, the expansion has been consistently understood to be illegal, in international terms, even by many in Israel, with only some Americans and some Israelis saying otherwise. It’s not as if this is a case that’s still being hung up with questions in international law, it’s that a proper settlement hasn’t been reached (and if reached, couldn’t be enforced).

Again, this isn’t a matter of anti-Israeli politics, but statement of facts concerning Israeli policy that harms Palestinians. Whether the policies are viewed as acceptable due to the difficulties Israel faces, or whether they’re viewed as abominations that verge on ethnic cleansing, the point remains that the policies are in place and upheld by the Israeli government and enforced by the IDF. So the question of “how do we help our Palestinian brothers and sisters in the Faith” is quite reasonable, regardless of where one stands on the morality or justness of Israel’s actions.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Ghosty]

God bless you Ghosty!

My pleasure. Some of my closest friends at my parish are Palestinians and Melkite Israelis.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Ridgerunner]

That’s not an attack, it’s a reasonable question of policy. Our brothers and sisters are indeed being overtly abused by a foreign government that receives a lot of U.S. aid. As taxpayers, it’s quite reasonable to question the appropriateness of this, even if they weren’t our brothers and sisters in the Faith who were being abused.

It is IDF policy to not allow people, including ambulances, to pass from one side of their own city to the other if they are in Israel-controlled Palestine. That is a fact. If you are in one neighborhood, and the hospital is in the next, you will NOT be allowed medical care without waiting at the checkpoints, possibly for hours. I don’t know if it’s their “cause” or not, nor do I know what Christy meant by the term, but I do know that there are very, very easy ways to resolve such an abuse if it’s not at all intended.

It is certainly a “cause” of the Israeli government to bulldoze Palestinian homes and leave people homeless, however. It is policy to do this in response to both terrorist attacks (not necessarily bulldozing only terrorist homes, but entire neighborhoods in the name of retaliation and “prevention”, i.e. to frighten the Palestinians out of such actions. Homes are also bulldozed if the Israeli government finds reason to use the land itself, despite the land being inside of Palestine and outside the proper borders of Israel. This has been a matter of policy for the Israeli government, particularly in the interest of preserving and/or expanding Israeli settlements on Palestinian land. They’ve not even argued that it’s NOT the policy of Israel, but have rather argued that the Palestinians have no legal claims to such lands.

It is not opposition to Israel to bring up the very real policies of the country that cause damage to Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, just as it’s not anti-U.S. politics to question prisoner interrogation policies. I’m not talking about Israel’s right to exist, or any such thing, only about the admitted policies of Israel to take Palestinian land, as it was defined by international law. Not even Israel denies this, which is why it’s odd to me that you question it. It’s not a question of whether or not the international laws say that the borders are to be set where they were, but rather a question of whether or not Israel should be bound by those laws for various reasons. As of now, the expansion has been consistently understood to be illegal, in international terms, even by many in Israel, with only some Americans and some Israelis saying otherwise. It’s not as if this is a case that’s still being hung up with questions in international law, it’s that a proper settlement hasn’t been reached (and if reached, couldn’t be enforced).

Again, this isn’t a matter of anti-Israeli politics, but statement of facts concerning Israeli policy that harms Palestinians. Whether the policies are viewed as acceptable due to the difficulties Israel faces, or whether they’re viewed as abominations that verge on ethnic cleansing, the point remains that the policies are in place and upheld by the Israeli government and enforced by the IDF. So the question of “how do we help our Palestinian brothers and sisters in the Faith” is quite reasonable, regardless of where one stands on the morality or justness of Israel’s actions.

Peace and God bless!

So there it is. This really is just one more “hate Israel”, terrorist apologist thread. Pure politics, and the charitable posture is just that…a posture. Zero charity toward Israel or Israelis. Why don’t you rename the thread “What are you doing to help Hamas and Fatah?”

The last couple of pro-terrorist threads were kind of interesting. This one isn’t. Just more of same. Doubt I’ll be back, so reinforce each other’s hate without fear of counterargument.

 

[Ghosty]

So there it is. This really is just one more “hate Israel”, terrorist apologist thread. Pure politics, and the charitable posture is just that…a posture. Zero charity toward Israel or Israelis. Why don’t you rename the thread “What are you doing to help Hamas and Fatah?”

The last couple of pro-terrorist threads were kind of interesting. This one isn’t. Just more of same. Doubt I’ll be back, so reinforce each other’s hate without fear of counterargument.

Pro-terrorist? Zero charity towards Israel or the Israelis?

No one here has said that Israel doesn’t have the right to defend itself against terrorists, and I believe you’re the only one who’s even brought the issue up.

If you’re not interested in the topic, you’re more than welcome to stop participating.

Peace and God bless!

 

[BamaRider]

It is not opposition to Israel to bring up the very real policies of the country that cause damage to Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, just as it’s not anti-U.S. politics to question prisoner interrogation policies. I’m not talking about Israel’s right to exist, or any such thing, only about the admitted policies of Israel to take Palestinian land, as it was defined by international law. Not even Israel denies this, which is why it’s odd to me that you question it. It’s not a question of whether or not the international laws say that the borders are to be set where they were, but rather a question of whether or not Israel should be bound by those laws for various reasons. As of now, the expansion has been consistently understood to be illegal, in international terms, even by many in Israel, with only some Americans and some Israelis saying otherwise. It’s not as if this is a case that’s still being hung up with questions in international law, it’s that a proper settlement hasn’t been reached (and if reached, couldn’t be enforced).

In the history of the world there has never been a Palestinian state.

There were NO Arabs in the Holy Land till the Muslim invasions of the 7th century.

Jews have been living in that land for 3700 years.

Since the 19th century they have been the largest population in Jerusalem.

All of this is historical fact.

Israel occupies less then 1/6th of the land in the MidEast, but this is still too much for the Arabs.

The Palestinians are led by Hamas, a gang of terrorists, and cowwards. Not getting ANY money from me.

Jordan’s population is 80% Palestinian, seems like a good place for the Palestinian homeland to me. But no, they want Isarel. This is not about a Palestinian homeland. They were offered that in 2000 and they responded with rocket attacks.

And if any Christians are taking part in shooting rockets into school yards, then they need to be dealt with accordingly. A terroist is a terroist no matter what religion he says he is.

The Palsestinians don’t want peace, have never wanted it, and are committed to never getting it by talking the destruction of Israel The mere fact they voted Hamas into power to lead them outta tell ya something. So I’m sorry if they get no sympathy from me.

I’m not opposed to helping individual Palestinians but their so called state? noway.

 

[BamaRider]

I cannot speak for the OP but please take all this “Palestinians are all terrorists” energy and use it to a create another thread instead of hijacking this thread. This thread is what others are doing to help Catholic Palestinians suffering in Palestine.

Here’s where ya gotta problem with most Americans. These people voted Hamas into power, in what they claim was a fair election. FIne. Now are ya gonna make me go back and dig out quotes from Hamas leaders on what they wanna do to Israel? Or will you concede they are fanactics and jihadists?

When you vote people like Nassarallh in, I’m gonna hold the population accountable. Vote them out, I might open my pocket book, otherwise I’m gonna take you like what these leaders preach. Fine, just don’t come to me looking for money

You knowt he IDF might relax a little bit at the checkpoints, as soon as Palestinians stop sending suicide bombers over to kill kids on school busses.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Ridgerunner,

Catholic Israelis are indiscriminately targeted by Palestinian suicide bombers, assassins and rockets, but you do not seem to care about them.

You seriously need to apologize to our sister for this cruel statement.

I guess by your standards, JUST because I give money to a charitable fund for the homeless, then that automatically means I do not care for the earthquake victims in China.

BTW, I hope you know that the very great majority of Catholics in Israel are ARAB Christians. So sister Christy’s appeal was not political at all. You are the only one here with a political agenda, correct?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Ridgerunner,

So there it is. This really is just one more “hate Israel”, terrorist apologist thread. Pure politics, and the charitable posture is just that…a posture. Zero charity toward Israel or Israelis. Why don’t you rename the thread “What are you doing to help Hamas and Fatah?”

The last couple of pro-terrorist threads were kind of interesting. This one isn’t. Just more of same. Doubt I’ll be back, so reinforce each other’s hate without fear of counterargument.

Brother Ghosty is part Jewish. Your presumptions are just crazy!

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother BamaRider,

Here’s where ya gotta problem with most Americans. These people voted Hamas into power, in what they claim was a fair election. FIne. Now are ya gonna make me go back and dig out quotes from Hamas leaders on what they wanna do to Israel? Or will you concede they are fanactics and jihadists?

When you vote people like Nassarallh in, I’m gonna hold the population accountable. Vote them out, I might open my pocket book, otherwise I’m gonna take you like what these leaders preach. Fine, just don’t come to me looking for money

You knowt he IDF might relax a little bit at the checkpoints, as soon as Palestinians stop sending suicide bombers over to kill kids on school busses.

And what does any of this have to do with requests of charity by a Catholic Archbishop to help those who have been affected by Israeli attacks?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[PazFeAmor]

I think one of the best ways to help Palestinian Christians is by donating to Catholic organizations such as the “Franciscan Foundation for the Holy Land” ffhl.org/2006/housing.asp who help Palestinian Christian families through educational, housing and work programs so that they are able to continue to live in Palestine.

I read an article that horrified me as to the new measures that the Israeli government is taking against Palestinian Christians. In the article at “The Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation” website it speaks of the Palestinian Christians being deported amongst other horrible actions being done against our Christian brothers/sisters. You can read it in the excerpt below or read the article in entirety at the following link

hcef.org/index.cfm/mod/news/ID/16/SubMod/NewsView/NewsID/2049.cfm

Israel is Deporting Jerusalem Christians

22-Jun-08

Hundreds of Jerusalem Christians are loosing residency rights in their City due to policies of the Israeli Ministry of Interior. The policy that aims to reduce the number of non-Jews in the City takes its toll on families and individuals who hold residency permits at foreign countries. No matter how long they travel abroad, no matter if they were born in Jerusalem before or after Israel occupied East Jerusalem , they are considered visitors in their own city.

Palestinian Christians who make today not more than 9,000 will lose 15% of their population as a result of this policy. While Jews from all over the world and even converts to Judaism are allowed to immigrate to Israel under the Israeli “Law of Return”, the indigenous Jerusalemites are considered temporary residents. Originally, Seven years of being out of Jerusalem was the deadline for losing one’s right to live in his own city. Now, only a proof of residency in another country is enough for Israel to consider Jerusalem as not “the center of life” for this person or family and thus deny them the right of living in their home town once they travel abroad.

In addition to this particular policy, the Israeli authorities are still implementing other regulations aiming at further decreasing the numbers of Palestinian, Christians and Moslems, in Jerusalem . From freezing the law of family reunion to impossible requirements for building in the city, to the Separation Wall that separated hundreds from the center of Jerusalem . Palestinian Christians of the city will soon lose half of their population.

I have cried many times when I think of how Palestinian Christians have been abandoned by not all but most of the Western Christian world. They are the living stones of the Holy land but most Western Christians don’t even give them a second thought or even know that they exist.

Peace.

 

[Badaliyyah]

I think it is a shame that a couple of people with little interest in the Melkites or Eastern Catholics, from what I can tell, have been able to hijack the thread and turn it into an apologia for the state of Israel. Christy’s original post was well written, did not attack the existence of Israel, and suggested that persons interested in helping Melkites in the Palestinian territories contact Abouna Elias. Mar Elias has been a wonderful spokesperson for the Palestinian peoples and is a Catholic bishop. I do not see how her suggestion was in any way controversial or how they provoked such angry attacks.

Contacting Abouna Elias is a wonderful idea and I wish all Catholics would consider it.

Abouna Elias Chacour
Archbishop of Galilee
P. O. Box 102
Ibillin 30012
Galilee, Israel

 

[Lev23]

I have cried many times when I think of how Palestinian Christians have been abandoned by not all but most of the Western Christian world. They are the living stones of the Holy land but most Western Christians don’t even give them a second thought or even know that they exist.

Peace.

Yeah, next time try to shed a tear for Jewish Christians in the land of Israel(not “Palestine”). After all, they are our Lords brethern in the flesh.

Grace based Messianics in the land suffer just as much as the Palestinean Christians suffer from their Islamic brethern. They are ridiculed by the ultra-orthodox in many ways, they are looked upon as traitors and sinners because they do not accept rabbincal authority. The Jewish Christians get blamed for certain other Christians missionaries that come to Israel and dump leaflets and tracts everywhere. Their meeting places and even their homes, not to mention themselves are targets of terroism because they are Christian.

 

[PazFeAmor]

Yeah, next time try to shed a tear for Jewish Christians in the land of Israel(not “Palestine”). After all, they are our Lords brethern in the flesh.

Grace based Messianics in the land suffer just as much as the Palestinean Christians suffer from their Islamic brethern. They are ridiculed by the ultra-orthodox in many ways, they are looked upon as traitors and sinners because they do not accept rabbincal authority. The Jewish Christians get blamed for certain other Christians missionaries that come to Israel and dump leaflets and tracts everywhere. Their meeting places and even their homes, not to mention themselves are targets of terroism because they are Christian.

Don’t assume that you know what is in my heart. And the focus of this thread is Melkite Catholic’s in the Holy Land. That you would even think that I have no feeling or compassion for anyone regardless of race or religion who is suffering unimaginable pain or loss is uncalled for.

This is a thread about Melkite Catholic’s suffering in the Holy Land… if you want to post about the suffering of Messianic Jews then you are welcome to do so without attacking others with a “you don’t even care about my people” judgemental attitude.

And for your information I know of the protests and fire bombings committed by a few members of Ultra Orthodox against Messianic Jews.

Peace.

 

[mardukm]

Yeah, next time try to shed a tear for Jewish Christians in the land of Israel(not “Palestine”). After all, they are our Lords brethern in the flesh.

This comes off as unbelievably and unjustifiably snide and UNChristian. How do you know Pazfeamor is not praying for them? Please offer him an apology.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Ghosty]

Dear brother Ridgerunner,

Brother Ghosty is part Jewish. Your presumptions are just crazy!

Blessings,
Marduk

I wish that I was part Jewish by blood, the bloodline of God, but that is not the case. My connection to Jews and Judaism is in my closest friends who are from Conservative/Orthodox Jewish families, and the fact that I came to the Faith through studying Orthodox Judaism. I suppose you could say that I’m part Jewish spiritually.

You are right that I would never turn against Jews, though. Part of that means supporting the Catholic and Orthodox decendants of the Jews, and that means supporting our brothers and sisters of the Faith in the Holy Land.

As one Maronite friend of mine put it, “Jesus Christ was an export of my people to the rest of the world.”

As for the politics, which I’m trying to avoid as much as possible aside from where it intersects with the topic at hand, it’s a mistake to lump the Palestinian Catholics and Orthodox in with the likes of Hamas. They have no love for such groups (who persecute them severely), though I’m sure there are times when they may feel that Hamas is the “evil they know”. On the whole, though, I’ve found that there is often little love lost between the militant Muslims and the Christians of the Holy Land, at least when the chips are down.

Peace and God bless!

 

[PazFeAmor]

This comes off as unbelievably and unjustifiably snide and UNChristian. How do you know Pazfeamor is not praying for them? Please offer him an apology.

Blessings,
Marduk

Actually, Paz is a “She” but I don’t need an apology I know that when you experience pain on a personal level it makes you react impulsively when you feel that no one acknowledges your pain.

I spoke my peace and will let it go.

Thank you brother Marduk for your kindness.

 

[Lev23]

This comes off as unbelievably and unjustifiably snide and UNChristian. How do you know Pazfeamor is not praying for them? Please offer him an apology.

Blessings,
Marduk

At first glance, my comments might seem like that. But everytime there is discussion on this group or that group that is prey to secular Israels(i.e.IDF/Government) bullying, NEVER, I will stress again, NEVER!!! is the remnant of Israel(who, along with the land and Jesus Christ, is central to Gods prophetic Word), that is the Jewish church in Israel thought of. When this happens, they are lumped in with not the good, but with the bad an the ugly.

 

[Lev23]

I spoke my peace and will let it go.

Let me just say, if I offended you, I am very sorry.

 

[PazFeAmor]

Let me just say, if I offended you, I am very sorry.

It’s ok, apology accepted. I think that in thread’s such as this one many take the criticism of the Israeli government to equal criticism of all Jews and this is not the case. I think there needs to be an understanding that the criticism of ANY government does not equal the criticism of an entire religion or race.

If ever you need to vent just PM me and vent away. God bless.