What are you protesting?

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It’s not my Bible vs your Bible. It’s 10+ Bibles vs your Bible.

Why are you right?
and still more
This is the best book for introducing the Catholic faith to non-Catholics. Given the great amount of material covered in a single volume, Cardinal Gibbons does an excellent job in adequately addressing all the Protestant charges against the Catholic Church. By James Cardinal Gibbons

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President William H. Taft praised James Cardinal Gibbons for his “single-minded patriotism and love of country on the one hand and (his) sincere devotion to his Church and God, on the other.” And another president, Theodore Roosevelt, said to him directly: "Taking your life as a whole I think you now occupy the position of being the most respected and venerated and useful citizen of our country. "
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Faith of the Early Fathers, v I, II, and III
William A. Jurgens
In this three-volume set the early church fathers speak for themselves. Volume I covers the Pre-Nicene and Nicene eras; Volume II covers the Post-Nicene era through St. Jerome; and Volume III covers St. Augustine to the end of the patristic period

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Without exception the best collection of early church teachers. In addition to the writings of the early church is a thorough general index but more than that an invaluable doctrinal index to find the seeds of virtually every doctrine imaginable. Do not presume to understand early church history without this reference.

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The correct question is - Why are you such a dipstick?
Benu, you show WAY more restraint than I think I would have in the many instances dosdog has called you a dipstick. Good for you!

Dosdog,
You have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned. I will never listen to anything you have to say. Thank God that not all catholics are like you. For that matter protestants either. Check your tongue man.

I have reported your many posts of harrassment and namecalling…
 
Benu, you show WAY more restraint than I think I would have in the many instances dosdog has called you a dipstick. Good for you!

Dosdog,
You have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned. I will never listen to anything you have to say. Thank God that not all catholics are like you. For that matter protestants either. Check your tongue man.

I have reported your many posts of harrassment and namecalling…
I do not believe I asked your opionion or really care what you think

DD
 
I do not believe I asked your opionion or really care what you think

DD
Ok, but if you get kicked off then you only have yourself to blame… Just thought I would give ya fair warning.
 
I do not believe I asked your opionion or really care what you think

DD
DD, You are a wealth of information. Thank you. Singinbeauty does make a good point. I am very impressed with your knowledge of our faith. When you used the term dipstick it did not seem to fit with the man who is providing me with such tremendous resources as you have.
Dipstick seems to evoke memories of long ago when I grew up in Pittsburgh. Are you from back east?
God Bless.
 
DD, You are a wealth of information. Thank you. Singinbeauty does make a good point. I am very impressed with your knowledge of our faith. When you used the term dipstick it did not seem to fit with the man who is providing me with such tremendous resources as you have.
Dipstick seems to evoke memories of long ago when I grew up in Pittsburgh. Are you from back east?
God Bless.
Yes i was born in one of the 13 original English Counties- And I do have a prob with dipsticks who think the Holy Spirit waited 2000 years for them to come along so they can tell the Apostles what they were talking about

DD
 
I have already talked about these verses in other posts. Why do you never read them and bring up points you have with them. Instead you always just quote them again and again and I am expected to answer again and again?
Because I think your interpretations are just flat-out wrong, that is why. I read your answers, but I don’t accept them. They’re stretches of the imagination, they’re not how they were interpreted for many centuries, and no matter how many creative Protestant interpretations of them that I see, the original intent is the most valid way for me to read them. Nothing personal, Benu, really. I’m not going to call you names, and I will say that you seem like a very nice person who is debating us in good faith. But I do get frustrated, because you ask for the Catholic scriptural justifications of certain doctrines, you’re given them, and the you toss back out the fundie re-interpretation and think you’ve “won.” It’s just not that simple. Like I said many posts back, we are talking past each other at this point. I’m apparently not going to make you consider something different, and you’re definitely not going to make me think like a fundie. I am a recent convert who discovered that the Catholic way of interpreting the Bible is very near to perfect and seamless, after years of rolling my eyes at all the fundies surrounding me. No gaps, no contradictions. I am home.
 
Because I think your interpretations are just flat-out wrong, that is why. I read your answers, but I don’t accept them. They’re stretches of the imagination, they’re not how they were interpreted for many centuries, and no matter how many creative Protestant interpretations of them that I see, the original intent is the most valid way for me to read them. Nothing personal, Benu, really. I’m not going to call you names, and I will say that you seem like a very nice person who is debating us in good faith. But I do get frustrated, because you ask for the Catholic scriptural justifications of certain doctrines, you’re given them, and the you toss back out the fundie re-interpretation and think you’ve “won.” It’s just not that simple. Like I said many posts back, we are talking past each other at this point. I’m apparently not going to make you consider something different, and you’re definitely not going to make me think like a fundie. I am a recent convert who discovered that the Catholic way of interpreting the Bible is very near to perfect and seamless, after years of rolling my eyes at all the fundies surrounding me. No gaps, no contradictions. I am home.
I agree. I was away from the Church for 40 years and actually hated Christianity. God softened me up with Buddhism and brought me back to Christ and non-denominational churches which left me with a sense of an absence of something. Then Christ led me to His Mother who could only be found in Catholicism. What is so beautiful about Mary is that Jesus’ body was made from her body. Another amazing discovery is that mothers retain the cells of their children’s bodies throughout their lives. How can we ever question the significance of Mary in our Christian faith. If we do not see her importance we cannot have the fullness of truth.
It is the heart of the mother that creates life in the child. The heart of Christ cannot be known fully without knowing His Mother’s Heart.
 
You are rightish in saying that there is just more than Heaven and Hell. There is also Sheol (also known as Hades or Death) This is the place where the dead go before Christ raises them up to be with Him.

However lets get a description of this place.

Luke 16:19-31
Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury. 20 At his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus who was covered with sores. 21 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores.
22 “Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham.[a] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and his soul went to the place of the dead.** There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side.

24 “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’

25 “But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’

27 “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. 28 For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment.’

29 “But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read what they wrote.’

30 “The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’

31 “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t listen even if someone rises from the dead.’”

So we see here that the man who trusted in Christ was taken over to the Heavenly side. The one who had not repented was taken over to the Hell side. It is said that he is there to be tormented, not to have his sins purged. This was also done before Christ’s second coming because the rich man wanted his brothers to here the truth. There is never any indication that this man will get out of this place. And he knows that if his brothers repent then they will not have to go there. So again. No purgatory here.

Your verses in 1 Peter 3 say that Christ in the Spirit preached to those in the days of Noah. That was probably done through Noah. They are now in prison. Which will be the same place as the rich man. Which is the Hell side because they never repented.

David also says in Psalm 16:10**
For you will not leave my soul among the dead (Sheol)
or allow your holy one to rot in the grave.

This shows that he will go to Sheol. However he will go to the side with Abraham where there is no fire.

So yes this is a waiting place outside of Heaven and Hell. But it’s made up of two sides. A Heaven like side and a Hell like side. But it is not Purgatory.

This passage is not talking about purgatory, therefore, does not prove or disprove purgatory. Jesus is only showing us that there is Hell and Heaven. Jesus shows us here how works of charity is important to Him. riches and greed may lead you into hell. taking care of the poor is one of Jesus message.
 
All I’m asking you is why your Bible translation is better than the 10+ that I used.

Also I want an answer on why we need purgatory when Christ makes us fully righteous. (1 John 1:9)

I’m tired of always being diverted away from this point please answer this question.
The existence of Purgatory is not at odds with 1 John1:9.

Are you trying to tell us that because you’ve accepted Christ, you are now without sin? You do not sin at all and everyone else you know who accepts Christ doesn’t sin either?

Also, if we’ve all accepted Christ - and make no mistake, Catholics have certainly accepted Christ - then what does it matter to you if Catholics believe something different than you?
 
So you say. Prove it.

CDL
1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
1 John 2:2
He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.

Hebrews 10:10
For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.
 
But if any person’s work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.

So it’s not an accurate translation to say this means we will have to be saved by means of fire if our work is not good enough. It saying that if this is the case then we will only just be saved, as someone would be if they had passed through fire.

So this verse is not referring to purgatory. Please if there is some mistake I have made here or legitimate disagreement then please show me. Do not just quote this verse again. I am getting tired of it.
So what the heck are you talking about? You deny the plain meaning and then you give some vague blather that doesn’t mean anything about what you insist it means. The Scripture says we pass through fire for the cleansing of some sins. Your next sentence says this is not true. Then you conclude by writing “there you see, I’ve proven that the Scriptures do not say what they just said.” I’m still praying for your conversion to Christianity.

CDL
 
1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

I asked some time back and did not receive an answer. When was the last time you went to confession?
 
1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
1 John 2:2
He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.

Hebrews 10:10
For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.
You’ve just demonstrated once again that the Church is correct and you are wrong. What’s wrong with you?

CDL
 
The existence of Purgatory is not at odds with 1 John1:9.

Are you trying to tell us that because you’ve accepted Christ, you are now without sin? You do not sin at all and everyone else you know who accepts Christ doesn’t sin either?

Also, if we’ve all accepted Christ - and make no mistake, Catholics have certainly accepted Christ - then what does it matter to you if Catholics believe something different than you?
I’m not saying I don’t sin. I’m saying that sins power has no effect over me, that is it won’t take me to Hell. Because of the blood of Christ. Obviously I can’t just live a life of sin though. Doing so would only show that I was still living to satisfy my own fleshly desires and not living for Christ.

But 1 John 1:9 is at odds with Pugatory because if Christ has cleansed us from all unrighteousness then what is there left to be purged?
 
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