What are your arguments against adoption to gay couples?

[SuperLuigi]

Actually there is no good argument against adoption to gay couples, in fact a Major new study finds kids raised by SSCouples are “healthier and happier”

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It’s the rallying cry for opponents of same-sex marriage: “Every child deserves a mom or a dad.” But a major new study finds that kids raised by same-sex couples actually do a bit better “than the general population on measures of general health and family cohesion.”

The study, conducted in Australia by University of Melbourne researchers “surveyed 315 same-sex parents and 500 children.” The children in the study scored about six percent higher than Australian kids in the general population. The advantages held up “when controlling for a number sociodemographic factors such as parent education and household income.” The study was the largest of its kind in the world.

The lead researcher, Dr. Simon Crouch, noted that in same-sex couples parents have to “take on roles that are suited to their skill sets rather than falling into those gender stereotypes.” According to Crouch, this leads to a “more harmonious family unit and therefore feeding on to better health and well being.”

This is old news. That study does follow proper sampling methodology and is invalid.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Thank you…any secular arguments in your arsenal?

Gay “marriage” advocates love to quote all these studies that show gay couples raise kids as good or even better than straight ones.

However, those studies are invalid due to improper sampling methodology. If in my field of study we followed the same procedures as they did, we’d be laughed out of science literally. I can also say that our data would not hold up in court.

There’s also the “some family is better than no family”.

Believe me, that is hardly the case and gay relationships are not stable.

Furthermore, research conducted at the University of Minnesota and University of Texas-Austin seem to indicate that gay parenting is actually a burden on the state, which is prominent feedback against so-called gay “marriage”.

frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

 

[Oreoracle]

Where would you as a child have preferred to have been placed if you were in that situation? With a mother and a father, or some other type of arrangement?

That’s not really a fair question. It’s a bit like asking a man “Would you have rather been born a girl?” Their answer won’t reflect their attitude toward womanhood, but rather their current happiness with manhood. In fact I would say this is the case for any question of the form “Would you rather be someone different than you are now?” We can only evaluate those questions from the perspective of the sort of person we are, so we have a built-in bias.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Why can’t a gay couple provide a stable life for a child…some of the nicest, most educated and emotionally stable people that I have had the pleasure to meet have been gay…now put a child in an environment where they suffer physical and psychological cruelty at the hands of its ‘normal’ parents!
A gay couple can offer as much love and support as a heterosexual couple.

This is anecdotal evidence. I could say the exact opposite for the of the first sentence from own experience.

 

[SuperLuigi]

That’s not really a fair question. It’s a bit like asking a man “Would you have rather been born a girl?” Their answer won’t reflect their attitude toward womanhood, but rather their current happiness with manhood. In fact I would say this is the case for any question of the form “Would you rather be someone different than you are now?” We can only evaluate those questions from the perspective of the sort of person we are, so we have a built-in bias.

Still an insufficient reason to support gay adoption.

 

[djchez]

That’s not really a fair question. It’s a bit like asking a man “Would you have rather been born a girl?” Their answer won’t reflect their attitude toward womanhood, but rather their current happiness with manhood. In fact I would say this is the case for any question of the form “Would you rather be someone different than you are now?” We can only evaluate those questions from the perspective of the sort of person we are, so we have a built-in bias.

My point is that one needs to look at this from the child’s perspective - (and it is fair, because each of us was once a child) - rather than from the adult’s perspective. All too often children are treated as commodities rather than as the persons they are. No one has a right to a child.

 

[estesbob]

My point is that one needs to look at this from the child’s perspective - (and it is fair, because each of us was once a child) - rather than from the adult’s perspective. All too often children are treated as commodities rather than as the persons they are. No one has a right to a child.

In this case children are being used to push a political agenda.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I thought the catholic church was against homosexual sex, not the lifestyle…surely everyone deserves respect.
Why can’t a gay couple provide a stable life for a child…some of the nicest, most educated and emotionally stable people that I have had the pleasure to meet have been gay…now put a child in an environment where they suffer physical and psychological cruelty at the hands of its ‘normal’ parents!

The difference between outliers and statistical trends. Children raised by single parents are far more likely to be involved in violence, drug abuse, physical abuse, even when corrected for income level, education, geographical area etc. Do all children of single parents suffer those effects. No. Certainly not, but they are far more likely.

My father was raised by a single mother during the depression in a big city. One of the finest men I’ve ever met. But my grandmother sacrificed a lot, she stayed single and focused on her kids. She made the effort to get him together with his uncle every summer working on a farm. Now, even then he did get involved in some violence, he was more vulnerable- but he got through it.

Could a homosexual couple raise stable child? Well, define stable. Depends on the couple, but what are the statistics going to be? We can always find outliers, those who beat the odds-- but what will be the norm? I’m hoping it won’t be the gay couple in my neighborhood. Their little boy wanted a red BMX bike. They bought him a, I am not kidding, sparkly purple beach cruiser with tassles. Kid took it to his friend’s house the next day and spray-painted it red and cut off the tassles. His parents were horrified. Yep, hetero parents do the same kind of things, try and force their kids into being little mini-mes, getting them what they’d want instead of what the kid wants.

What situation, statistically, will provide the best environment for the child? This isn’t about the rights of gays, this is about what’s best for the kid.

A gay couple can offer as much love and support as a heterosexual couple.
No, a gay couple can not model a heterosexual relationship throughout a child’s formative years.

I can’t argue with your third point lol

A

 

[Marty_E]

Not sure I’m comfortable with the statement “adoption is simply prolonged foster care”.

It is exactly that. The State gives control over a child to someone whose natural parents are incapable or deceased.

.

 

[Oreoracle]

My point is that one needs to look at this from the child’s perspective - (and it is fair, because each of us was once a child) - rather than from the adult’s perspective.

Right, but let’s think about the child’s perspective for a moment. Did you, as a child, ever stop to wonder whether your parents’ relationship was representative of the masculine/feminine duality our society expects and perpetuates? Did you ever consider whether your educational opportunities were restricted? Did you ever ponder the relative advantages and drawbacks of belonging to your particular socioeconomic class? Did you imagine that your family’s ethnic background would impact how receptive you are to other aspects of our culture?

No, of course you didn’t. No one did. We only ask such questions after the fact. Unfortunately, by that point, one cannot imagine things being any other way. So the child’s feelings are probably not the best indication of successful parenting, as children tend to have very accommodating psyches and are capable of viewing even unusual practices as “normal” if they are raised around them.

 

[JimG]

I always knew there was a difference between mom and dad. It would have seemed very strange to me if one of my friends had two moms or two dads. I would not have been able to explain it at that early age, but I would have recognized it as not normal.

 

[marymary1975]

Why can’t a gay couple provide a stable life for a child…some of the nicest, most educated and emotionally stable people that I have had the pleasure to meet have been gay…now put a child in an environment where they suffer physical and psychological cruelty at the hands of its ‘normal’ parents!
l

Statements like this are my secular reason against gay adoption. Why do people always have to choose between two evils? Why instead of aspiring to what it should be right we have to aspire to what is not as bad as…? Gay adoption as OK is based on the view of which one of two evils is less evil.

Why instead of comparing a gay couple with a child to abusive heterosexuals, why don’t you ask yourself: would the child be better with his two biological parents, both healthy and responsible, both loving and fully engaged with their children or would the child be better with a gay couple in which at least one is not his biological parent and in which he won’t have one parental figure if the other sex?

Yes we know that the world if full of wrongs and irresponsible people but don’t you think that in order to correct this it would be much more effective to try to get things done right instead of well because there is this x problem and y problem which is worst let’s resolve it encouraging x problem. That mentality is awful.

Adoption should be a rare exception not the common norm. Gay adoption strives on adoption being the common norm.as for gays to adopt they require at least one biological parent abandoning their kid or having their kid taken away. What we should be encouraging is all parents to be responsible. If all people would actually follow the rules of the catholic church as to marriage and parenting there would be less abandoned kids in the world. If people would prepare for marriage responsibly and follow the teachings of the church and would prepare accordingly for becoming parents there would be very rarely abused kids, abandoned kids and kids being fostered. If people would be responsible then gay adoption wouldn’t be needed. So why instead of encouraging gay adoption don’t we encourage people to be responsible, to get married and discernarriage properly and follow the riles teachings? If we all would start doing that there would be many less kids who need to be adopted.

 

[djchez]

Right, but let’s think about the child’s perspective for a moment. Did you, as a child, ever stop to wonder whether your parents’ relationship was representative of the masculine/feminine duality our society expects and perpetuates? Did you ever consider whether your educational opportunities were restricted? Did you ever ponder the relative advantages and drawbacks of belonging to your particular socioeconomic class? Did you imagine that your family’s ethnic background would impact how receptive you are to other aspects of our culture?

No, of course you didn’t. No one did. We only ask such questions after the fact. Unfortunately, by that point, one cannot imagine things being any other way. So the child’s feelings are probably not the best indication of successful parenting, as children tend to have very accommodating psyches and are capable of viewing even unusual practices as “normal” if they are raised around them.

One can see the wrongness of slavery without ever having been a slave, or the wrongness of the holocaust without ever having been its victim, by viewing these from the perspective of each, not as a victim, but as a human person. The same holds true for the child. This is what I mean by “perspective”. I do not mean to travel back in time. If I would not want to be treated as something to be “had” as an adult because I am a person. why would I as a child?

 

[marymary1975]

Also, someone else made a wonderful point before me. What is our definition is stable? In those studies that were made and stated that children raised by lesbian couples were faring even better than children of homosexuals the study explicitly stated that daughters of gay couples had huhjer rates if promiscuity. Interestingly they were still considered stable.

Same goes when people say I know a child raised by a gay couple and is such a fine person and so stable and successful. I was raised by an unmarried single mother and I don’t know who my father is. To a stranger’s eye I have a succesful career, an excellent high position job, I am extremely smart, I am happily married and have one child… To most strangers I amthe proven case that a child fROM an unmarried woman and who has never had a father can fare as good or maybe even better than children out of married heterosexual couples. But the million dollar question…did I ever suffer any emotional damage from not being raised by a mother and a father? And the answer is yes yes yes. The same should be with children of gay couples: is the child is going to ever suffer any emotional suffering due to being raised by a gay couple. That is the real measuring not oh the child looks stable.

 

[Oreoracle]

If I would not want to be treated as something to be “had” as an adult because I am a person. why would I as a child?

There’s a misunderstanding here. I’m not advocating treating children like possessions (I’m not sure who is ). Rather, I’m saying that it isn’t useful to ask questions about whether you would like to have been raised or born under different circumstances. Most children favor the circumstances under which they were born, or are at least partial to those circumstances. Most men are glad they were born boys, most people were fond of their first house, their first puppy, the forms of entertainment available when they were young, their sexuality, etc.

Unless a kid gets picked on for having gay parents, they will likely grow up to be fond of their gay parents. Just as it’s hard to discriminate against blacks if you have black friends, it’s hard to view gays as “disordered” when you have an intimate familial relationship with them. This is the real reason that radical conservatives fear gay adoption: It will create a generation of which a substantial portion is friendly to gays, and that will never do. It’s better to keep gays distant and misunderstood.

Also, your slavery comparison is mistaken. Many people who grew up as slaves preferred to be slaves rather than be set free after the Civil War ended. It was the only life they knew. As I said, the mind is very accommodating, especially during the formative stages of child development.

 

[Beryllos]

…Adoption is simply prolonged foster care…

…Not sure I’m comfortable with the statement “adoption is simply prolonged foster care”…seems that would irritate heterosexual couples who have adopted…not just homosexual couples. Thoughts?

It is exactly that. The State gives control over a child to someone whose natural parents are incapable or deceased.

I disagree. Adoption is intended to be permanent, and in the vast majority of cases it is. It provides the child with a stable, long-term family. The legal status of an adopted child is exactly the same as a child born into a family (for example, concerning parents’ rights and responsibilities, child’s rights, inheritance, …). Foster care is a wonderful thing, far better than institutional (orphanage) care, but it is not the same as adoption.

 

[nodito]

There’s a misunderstanding here. I’m not advocating treating children like possessions (I’m not sure who is ). Rather, I’m saying that it isn’t useful to ask questions about whether you would like to have been raised or born under different circumstances. Most children favor the circumstances under which they were born, or are at least partial to those circumstances. Most men are glad they were born boys, most people were fond of their first house, their first puppy, the forms of entertainment available when they were young, their sexuality, etc.

Unless a kid gets picked on for having gay parents, they will likely grow up to be fond of their gay parents. Just as it’s hard to discriminate against blacks if you have black friends, it’s hard to view gays as “disordered” when you have an intimate familial relationship with them. This is the real reason that radical conservatives fear gay adoption: It will create a generation of which a substantial portion is friendly to gays, and that will never do. It’s better to keep gays distant and misunderstood.

I agree with most of this, except your conclusion. It’s not that conservatives worry that a new generation won’t fear gays (really, who wants that?), but you’re right that it’s hard to view something as disordered when you’ve been taught to the contrary your whole life. This is the disservice we do to the children of gay couples, because the homosexual relationship is disordered and so we are presenting their children with a false view of human sexuality and asking them to accept it as normal.

 

[Joe_5859]

I recommend picking up a copy of Getting the Marriage Conversation Right: A Guide for Effective Dialogue by William May. It’s a short little booklet that responds to this question and many more, all from the perspective of reason.

In a nutshell, even the “stand in” parents for those who are adopted or in foster care ought to reflect the reality of what every child deserves: to know their mother and their father.

 

[shockerfan]

I disagree. Adoption is intended to be permanent, and in the vast majority of cases it is. It provides the child with a stable, long-term family. The legal status of an adopted child is exactly the same as a child born into a family (for example, concerning parents’ rights and responsibilities, child’s rights, inheritance, …). Foster care is a wonderful thing, far better than institutional (orphanage) care, but it is not the same as adoption.

I think this is the right answer. I know families with adopted children…they are considered equal in every aspect to the natural born children.

While I don’t know any families with foster children, I can’t imagine they consider the children equal in every aspect to their natural born children. Perhaps some do, but it doesn’t seem as such a sure thing as with an adopted child.

 

[Oreoracle]

It’s not that conservatives worry that a new generation won’t fear gays (really, who wants that?)…

“Fear” isn’t the word I would use. I know we use the word “homophobia”, but let’s be honest, it isn’t a phobia. It’s thinly-veiled hatred.

As for who would want it, I don’t know what else to say other than to inquire whether you’ve ever spoken to many of the right-wing. Hatred of homosexuals is especially prominent among men. You know the type: the macho womanizer who can’t imagine how any man’s tastes differ from his. Of course most gay haters are now fairly old, but they used to be the macho sort. Then you have the people who are a bit like the Phelps who use their beliefs to justify hating nearly every group.

I’m sorry that it sounds incredible, but it’s like asking who would want people to fear blacks. Lots of people do. Just get out and talk to some of the more vocal right-wingers.

…but you’re right that it’s hard to view something as disordered when you’ve been taught to the contrary your whole life. This is the disservice we do to the children of gay couples, because the homosexual relationship is disordered and so we are presenting their children with a false view of human sexuality and asking them to accept it as normal.

No one’s asking people to accept homosexuality as “normal”. We don’t base morality on what is normal in the first place.