What are your suggestion for the Novus Ordo?

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danielsisk619

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I know that the Traditional Catholicism forum would suit this thread best but I didn’t just want answers from the traditionalists. Hope its ok with you all.

If you could suggest some changes to the Novus Ordo mass to the pope what would they be?

These are my suggestions:
  1. Less Options
In the Novus Ordo there are three greetings to choose from along with three blessings or penitential rites and you could choose to do a blessing or a penitential rite. Then the priest can choose from one of four Eucharistic prayers and the congregation responds with one of four memorial acclamations. Then at the end of the mass the priest can choose to give one of three blessings at the end of the mass. This means that there are 432 variations of the mass.

This when one goes to a new parish, one has difficulty what’s going to come next. Even worse when you go to a mass that is said in a language you don’t understand it would be difficult to follow along with the mass in a missal.

So a few less Options would be great.
  1. Silent Eucharistic Prayer
The priest alone has the ability to change the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. We the congregation do not. I do not like the idea of the congregation praying the Eucharistic prayer along with the priest silently since we don’t have the ability to consecrate the bread and wine. Along with that I find when I go to the Traditional Latin Mass that the silence during the Eucharistic prayer helps me get into the right mind set to receive our Lord and Savior at communion.
  1. Encourage the Use of Incense
I find the use of incense helps me to get and stay in a reverent state of mind during mass. When incense is used all five of our senses are stimulated: hearing, with the sound of the music, the readers, the cantors and the priest; sight when watching the priest elevating the host and the chalice and go through the other parts of the mass; Touch when we stand, sit and kneel we feel something and at time pain in our knees when kneeling; taste when we receive the Body and Blood of Christ; and smell when we inhale the smoke of the incense.

Along with that at Traditional Latin Mass the incenser (I do not know the correct title) while sitting at the foot of the altar incenses the Body of Christ during the elevation of the Body of Christ. This is reminiscent of Revelations 8:3 “[a] angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.” I would also suggest that this practice be done during the elevation of the Body of Christ in the Novus Ordo as well.

So what are you suggestions or do you think Novus Ordo doesn’t needs any changes.
 
  1. What’s inherently wrong with options? I mean we seem to take it for granted that that’s good, but i don’t see why. Of course, some of the options may be bad (I don’t like EP2 for example), but that doesn’t affect options themselves.
  2. I disagree entirely. The Eucharistic Prayer is likely the only miracle people will experience on a weekly basis. Surely they deserve to hear and understand it? And the power of the silence is less than the power of the words ‘This is my body’ (imho).
  3. Absolutely. I love it- let’s have it at every mass.
 
Quotes from Ceremonies of the roman rite:

#214. Signifying prayer, sacrifice and reverence for people and sacred objects, incense is one of the richest liturgical signs in the Rites of the East and West. In the modern Roman Rite, incense may be used during any Mass, ) but it seems more appropriate to use incense when there is some music or singing to accompany the incensation of the altar, people, etc. Incense is used: (a) during the entrance procession, (b) to honor the altar at the beginning of Mass, (c) at the Gospel, (d) at the preparation of the gifts and (e) at the elevations of the Host and Chalice.

#215. Incense is to be used during the dedication of a church or altar, at the Mass of the Chrism, whenever the monstrance is used for the exposition of the Eucharist, at funerals. Incense ought to be used at the processions for the Presentation of the Lord, Passion (Palm) Sunday, the Mass of the Lord’s Supper, the Easter Vigil, Corpus Christi and at the solemn translation of relics or any other solemn procession. The altar, celebrant and people may be incensed at sung Lauds or Vespers during the singing of the Benedictus or the Magnificat.
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I think less options is a good idea.

I have no problem with the vernacular, but the stuff that’s the same, the Gloria, the Profession of Faith, the beginning and ending prayer and dismissal should be in Latin

The Eucharistic Prayer should also be in Latin, and not as many variables. BTW: Spoken out loud, not silently, although the Congregation should NOT join in.

Incense used more often, and bring back the Altar bells.

I went to an ordination the other day that was done very nicely (pictues: forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2276632) So it can be done reverently, even with fire alarms (read the linked post).
 
Karl_M said:
I think less options is a good idea.

I have no problem with the vernacular, but the stuff that’s the same, the Gloria, the Profession of Faith, the beginning and ending prayer and dismissal should be in Latin
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I would suggest that the Credo be said in the vernacular so the faithful can better understand what they are professing they believe.
 
danielsisk619 said:
I know that the Traditional Catholicism forum would suit this thread best but I didn’t just want answers from the traditionalists. Hope its ok with you all.

If you could suggest some changes to the Novus Ordo mass to the pope what would they be?

These are my suggestions:
  1. Less Options
In the Novus Ordo there are three greetings to choose from along with three blessings or penitential rites and you could choose to do a blessing or a penitential rite. Then the priest can choose from one of four Eucharistic prayers and the congregation responds with one of four memorial acclamations. Then at the end of the mass the priest can choose to give one of three blessings at the end of the mass. This means that there are 432 variations of the mass.

This when one goes to a new parish, one has difficulty what’s going to come next. Even worse when you go to a mass that is said in a language you don’t understand it would be difficult to follow along with the mass in a missal.

So a few less Options would be great.
  1. Silent Eucharistic Prayer
The priest alone has the ability to change the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. We the congregation do not. I do not like the idea of the congregation praying the Eucharistic prayer along with the priest silently since we don’t have the ability to consecrate the bread and wine. Along with that I find when I go to the Traditional Latin Mass that the silence during the Eucharistic prayer helps me get into the right mind set to receive our Lord and Savior at communion.
  1. Encourage the Use of Incense
I find the use of incense helps me to get and stay in a reverent state of mind during mass. When incense is used all five of our senses are stimulated: hearing, with the sound of the music, the readers, the cantors and the priest; sight when watching the priest elevating the host and the chalice and go through the other parts of the mass; Touch when we stand, sit and kneel we feel something and at time pain in our knees when kneeling; taste when we receive the Body and Blood of Christ; and smell when we inhale the smoke of the incense.

Along with that at Traditional Latin Mass the incenser (I do not know the correct title) while sitting at the foot of the altar incenses the Body of Christ during the elevation of the Body of Christ. This is reminiscent of Revelations 8:3 “[a] angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.” I would also suggest that this practice be done during the elevation of the Body of Christ in the Novus Ordo as well.

So what are you suggestions or do you think Novus Ordo doesn’t needs any changes.
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Quite frankly, toss it, and bring back the Traditional Latin Mass, the Mass of Ages.
 
Why change anything? It was promulgated with options and different translations for everyone so that they could feel better about themselves, never mind the underlying theology. In fact, I don’t even think it was intended to be said reverently, just as long as it was in the vernacular. The infrastructure was set so that communion in the hand, eucharistic ministers, altar girls, people infesting the sanctuary, etc. became about. Does one really think these ideas popped up in the 70’s and 80’s? I don’t. The designers had the laity in mind all along. The liturgy was something that could now be played and experimented with, just to bring more people in the Church.

Bottom line: you can’t change the Novus Ordo. Either you accept it with all its “abuses” or you don’t. If you can’t deal with it, there are Eastern Rites or the Traditional Latin Mass. All valid.
 
I attend both. Our new PP agreed to learn the TLM in order to continue to provide it in our parish. While I love the TLM, I also love the way he celebrates the NO Mass.

We have incense, male servers (5 at Sunday Mass), bells, total reverence and solid teaching in the homilies. Now he is considering bring back altar rails.

Oh yes, he has also brought back the beautiful traditional Catholic hymns.

It’s really a neighbouring parish but many people travel from other areas to attend his Masses.
 
  1. Communion rails
  2. No Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, or at least severely regulated.
  3. Chant the Gloria, Pater Noster
  4. Traditional Catholic music
The other things I have to suggest are probably specific to my parish, thus, not necessarily a problem with the Novus Ordo specifically. Overall, I think if the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum were strictly enforced the Novus Ordo would be much more reverent.
 
Just make sure it’s properly celebrated according to the Conciliar documents and post-Conciliar Instructions since then.

Keep everything, including all options, Eucharistic Prayers and propers.

(Ok, I take that back. Toss all Eucharistic Prayers for Chidren. Also remove the “Sign of Peace” permanently.)

That’s it. Everything looks good to me.

For the manner of celebration, let it be done according to the wishes of the Council. Let there be Gregorian Chant, sacred hymns, the use of the pipe organ or other PROPER instruments, incense, Latin for the common parts, and have at least some schedules for celebration “ad orientem.”

(And as much as traditional Catholics like to use “Mass of Ages” for the Tridentine, it isn’t, unless you consider 1570 “ages” ago. The “Mass of Ages” most properly belongs to the Last Supper. Barring that, the term best applies today to the Liturgy of St. James.)
 
BobP123 said:
Why change anything? It was promulgated with options and different translations for everyone so that they could feel better about themselves, never mind the underlying theology. In fact, I don’t even think it was intended to be said reverently, just as long as it was in the vernacular. The infrastructure was set so that communion in the hand, eucharistic ministers, altar girls, people infesting the sanctuary, etc. became about. Does one really think these ideas popped up in the 70’s and 80’s? I don’t. The designers had the laity in mind all along. The liturgy was something that could now be played and experimented with, just to bring more people in the Church.

Bottom line: you can’t change the Novus Ordo. Either you accept it with all its “abuses” or you don’t. If you can’t deal with it, there are Eastern Rites or the Traditional Latin Mass. All valid.
Click to expand...
I hope this is sarcasm?
 
  • more scriptural quotes in liturgy (coming with new translation)
  • bring back commission to absolve sins in the ordination rite (bishop breathes on priest and quotes Jesus, “receive the Holy Spirit…”)
  • Bring back pre-marriage exhortation
  • ensure that the focus on training servers is to know the ritual and basic liturgical principles, NOT on walking like a soldier through the mass. that is, do not plan liturgies by choreographing them like plays.
  • Depending on church architecture, consider orienting the mass. (That is a church with is built focused on the priest, like those in the round, face the people. But churches where all face the same direction, or some other shape that suggests a model of a “pilgrim people”, face the priest with the people)
  • think about appropriateness to the particular moments in the mass when selecting the music
  • pay more attention to progressive solemnity. Consider adding SUPER formal touches on special occasions like servers with torch-lamps at foot of the altar during consecration, doing the “kiss of peace” (nowadays a “liturgical hug”) between ministers in the sanctuary, having more altar candles, singing or chanting mass parts, Vesting the readers, and WAY more smells and bells.
 
DixiesFinest said:
I hope this is sarcasm?
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Well, if you think you will be able to change anything about the Novus Ordo, good luck. Most seemed to have found trying to change things very frustrating so far. Evidence is in the numbers who attend.
 
Magnum_V8 said:
  1. Communion rails
  2. No Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, or at least severely regulated.
  3. Chant the Gloria, Pater Noster and Sanctus
  4. Traditional Catholic music
.
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I would also add the Eucharistic Prayer I (Roman Canon) be the only option for Sundays and Solemnities.
 
I like the vernacular for ordinary Sundays and lesser feasts, but would like to see the Tridentine Mass said during Christmas and Easter Mass.

Incense every mass. Gregorian chant and more use of the choir.

Also I know our priests and deacons are fabulous in most cases. They have a lot to do. I do wish they would, however, quit giving us gerber homlies and give us some meat. We can handle it, and if they are worried about people getting offended, too bad. Jesus said he came to cause division. We should be catechised at Mass. People need shocked out of their complacency and given informed and passionate homilies that edify our spirits and exhort us to live a Christian life. The catholic Church is the fulness of truth. We just need more (reasonable) passion.
 
Close the loop-holes that open the opportunity for additions/innovations ----when the GIRM is “silent”.
 
Brendan said:
I would also add the Eucharistic Prayer I (Roman Canon) be the only option for Sundays and Solemnities.
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I would like the Roman Canon to be Mandatory on Solemnities and feasts/memorials of saints mentioned in it.

Eucharistic Prayer III is okay for me on Sundays.

I can also stand Eucharistic Prayer II or III used on Solemnities IF and ONLY IF, it is sung in Latin.

And of course, EP II can be on weekdays, spoken and in the vernacular. No problem with that. If sung and in Latin, so much the better.
 
I’d love to see the priest turned back around.

BTW, the laity do not have a right to hear the Eucharistic Prayer.
 
I would like someone else to light the aroma-therapy candles on the altar beside the commissioned liturgical dancer.
 
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